Practical lathe for garage use??

[billyjp2]

A few months back I bought a Hardinge DSM-59 lathe from my work for $100.
Its in pretty nice working condition and comes with collets and a 6 position turret. I know its best at long production runs, but could I make this work for simple hobby type use? Or would I be better off putting it up for sale and looking for something smaller and more practical for home use.

 

[zkling]

The lack of cross slide and saddle is pretty limiting. They made one for that machine, actually IIRC it was just a compound. It's a 2nd op lathe from design. Essentially what you have is a horizontal drill press at this point.

 

[RogueFab]

I would sell it and look for the typical south bend or atlas/craftsman. Too much work just to make chips.

 

[John in OH]

I would sell it and look for the typical south bend or atlas/craftsman. Too much work just to make chips.

+1 ! Turn this one into some cash and spend the cash and your time looking for a more traditional machine.

 

[Shadowdog500]

That is a hardinge which equals extremly high quality and nosebleed prices. Unfortunately that particular lathe is extremely limited for use in your home garage. But I bet you will make a profit on that lathe if you find someone who needs a quality turret lathe. Perhaps you can get a partial credit with it at a local used machine dealer.

Don't go too smal. I had a mini lathe in my garage for 7 years because that is all I had room for. Once i tuned it up it was great for bushings and small stuff but it's size quickly became a limitation and not having quick change gears for threading becomes a headache real fast. Once I built my big shop I had my eye out for a bigger lathe that was around 10" with quick change gears. Last spring I found this 11-36 belt driven lathe for $650 with tooling and love it! Bought the mill and tooling that was sitting next to it for the same price. These lathes were made by the thousands in Taiwan for MSC, Grizzly, and all the rest thy made a 12" one as well. They are not a southbend, monarch, or hardinge, but it works good enough for a home garage. If you have the space for an 11 or 12 look for one, you will rarely need something bigger. if you can get a name brand, great, if not, something like this will probably be fine.

Chris
Here my setup. Nothing spectacular, but it works for me.

 

[Adam.C]

Is it possible to find a different tail stock for the Hardinge? I've searched for one of those and they are worth many thousands of dollars in the right condition and area.

Shadow, I really like your mill. I always wanted one of those. I bid $1200 for one at a local auction and didn't win it. It's about the perfect hobby mill.

Billy, definitely post that picture on practicalmachinist in the bridgeport and Hardinge section and see what those guys think.

 

[DocsMachine]

I know its best at long production runs, but could I make this work for simple hobby type use?

-While that's a nice lathe for what it is, it's extremely specialized. Besides the fact it's almost certainly 3-phase (and, due to the two-speed motor, difficult to adapt to using a VFD) it's very limited in what it can do. It can be adapted to a fairly simple manual lathe with a cross and compound slide assembly, but like Adam notes, they're generally horribly expensive. (As in the $1K-$2K range.)

And even if you spent the cash for a tailstock and cross-slide (and a chuck and adapter to hold work the collets can't) you still wouldn't have power feeds or single-point threading, among others.

If you had the room and kept it as a second lathe, they can be handy. As mentioned above, a couple of drill-bit holders turns it into a dandy "horizontal drill press".

But really, I suggest getting a conventional engine lathe. Something with a conventional chuck mount (that Hardinge takes Hardinge-specific taper mounts) a regular quick-change gearbox, and normal accessories. You might pay a bit more, but a lathe you can't really use isn't a bargain even at $100.

Doc.

 

[Dave455]

Mate! That's a great little lathe, andI wouldn't be in a great rush to sell it if it only owes you $100! I wouldn't be in a rush to put a conventional tail stock on either, that would be like buying a Rolex and putting a Quartz movement in because you originally wanted a Casio!

What you have to bear in mind though, is that it is a CAPSTAN lathe, and is used differently from a normal lathe! Although they do come with a cross slide, it's seldom used as the tooling is brought to bear from the capstan.

For example, suppose you want to spin down a bit of 3/4 inch bar to say 1/2 inch to make a bolt! Using a conventional lathe you would have to take many cuts using a tool in a toolpost from the side. If your workpiece was any length, you would need to support the free end with a centre, and maybe even add a steady! Long job, which is why you need the power feed!

With the capstan, you use a different tool called a roller box, which is a cutting tool with it's own supporting rollers! You can take massive cuts with a roller box, and would probably do the job above in one pass - bang! You don't need power feeds, jobs over in seconds!

Now you come to thread your bolt. Now you use a die box, which again is a specific tool for a capstan. It cuts the thread in one pass, and when you reverse the handle it releases the box and you're done, again in one pass! You don't 'single point' with a capstan, that's not how they work!

What you do need, is the dedicated tooling to make the thing work! If you've got a load of collets then that's a good start! Keep hunting round until you've got a roller box and anything else you want that fits! You can, of course, use conventional tools in a capstan. Turning tools need a sort of L shaped tool holder, conventional die holders just require you to reverse the machine, and a drill holder is pretty universal! Even with conventional tools the capstan is still uber fast compared to a regular lathe! The Hardinge tooling is a little smaller than most capstans, but it's out there! Sadly, there's loads of it here in the U.K. but that does you little good!

Bear in mind that you can still get new machines direct from Hardinge here in the U.K. and I'm sure the same situation exists in the U.S. I don't know if they still support that one, but I bet someone will, so spares should never be a problem! Once you get into using a Capstan, a conventional lathe will seem like hard work!

I should point out, that when I had access to one, I regularly used a capstan for a 'one off' job! Although the setup time was greater, this was compensated for by being able to do the job so quickly! You may be able to find some footage on YouTube that shows how these things work. Doesn't have to be a Hardinge, any Capstan such as a Herbert works the same way!

 

[dr_clyde]

If I was looking for a general purpose lathe for the garage, I'd look for a 15" Clausing Colchester, LeBlond Regal, Sheldon R15, or Monarch 10ee. If those are out of your price range, smaller south bend, Logan, or Sheldon lathes should serve you well.

 

[billyjp2]

I've been browsing for a cross slide on ebay and used equipment sites but the prices are through the roof! I appreciate the advise and I'm starting to think that my best bet is to put this machine up for sale. Since I'm into it for so little money I should be able to turn a decent profit and find a more practical machine.

 

[Fretters]

...I'm starting to think that my best bet is to put this machine up for sale. Since I'm into it for so little money I should be able to turn a decent profit and find a more practical machine.

Unless you need the money from it or the space it's occupying, I'd personally be inclined to keep that, at least for a while, if you can potentially find a use for it. You'd be unlikely to drop across another for that type of price.

 

[EVOLVO]

Mate! That's a great little lathe, andI wouldn't be in a great rush to sell it if it only owes you $100! I wouldn't be in a rush to put a conventional tail stock on either, that would be like buying a Rolex and putting a Quartz movement in because you originally wanted a Casio!

What you have to bear in mind though, is that it is a CAPSTAN lathe, and is used differently from a normal lathe! Although they do come with a cross slide, it's seldom used as the tooling is brought to bear from the capstan.

For example, suppose you want to spin down a bit of 3/4 inch bar to say 1/2 inch to make a bolt! Using a conventional lathe you would have to take many cuts using a tool in a toolpost from the side. If your workpiece was any length, you would need to support the free end with a centre, and maybe even add a steady! Long job, which is why you need the power feed!

With the capstan, you use a different tool called a roller box, which is a cutting tool with it's own supporting rollers! You can take massive cuts with a roller box, and would probably do the job above in one pass - bang! You don't need power feeds, jobs over in seconds!

Now you come to thread your bolt. Now you use a die box, which again is a specific tool for a capstan. It cuts the thread in one pass, and when you reverse the handle it releases the box and you're done, again in one pass! You don't 'single point' with a capstan, that's not how they work!

What you do need, is the dedicated tooling to make the thing work! If you've got a load of collets then that's a good start! Keep hunting round until you've got a roller box and anything else you want that fits! You can, of course, use conventional tools in a capstan. Turning tools need a sort of L shaped tool holder, conventional die holders just require you to reverse the machine, and a drill holder is pretty universal! Even with conventional tools the capstan is still uber fast compared to a regular lathe! The Hardinge tooling is a little smaller than most capstans, but it's out there! Sadly, there's loads of it here in the U.K. but that does you little good!

Bear in mind that you can still get new machines direct from Hardinge here in the U.K. and I'm sure the same situation exists in the U.S. I don't know if they still support that one, but I bet someone will, so spares should never be a problem! Once you get into using a Capstan, a conventional lathe will seem like hard work!

I should point out, that when I had access to one, I regularly used a capstan for a 'one off' job! Although the setup time was greater, this was compensated for by being able to do the job so quickly! You may be able to find some footage on YouTube that shows how these things work. Doesn't have to be a Hardinge, any Capstan such as a Herbert works the same way!

Just thought I would quote this post in hopes the OP would take the time to read it. Seems to me if you bought this lathe from your work they might have some of the tooling that Dave455 talks about. Did you get any of the tooling specific to this lathe? I've never seen a turret lathe like this but I would be doing a lot more research on it before I got rid of it! JMO!!

 

[flyingtpot]

Chris
Here my setup. Nothing spectacular, but it works for me.

That Rockwell is a jewel. I have one and am always searching for another. Missed a Craigslist sale Rockwell 21-100 in the last year that sold for a very fair price.

 

[DocsMachine]

While I technically agree with Dave- I have a small turret lathe myself- I can't agree in spirit. A turret lathe, especially one that doesn't come with any tools, makes a very poor choice for day-to-day repair work in a garage or small home shop.

Yes, a "box tool" can knock down the OD of a rod quite quickly. I have several. But they're expensive ($100 and up) limited in OD (I have a couple that can only do up to 1/2", and another than can only go up to 7/8") and limited to the travel of the turret slide (I think about 4" or so on that model.)

They're also notoriously hard to set with any precision- if you have to get a bar to a precise dimension (say, plus or minus .003" to .005") expect to burn up several test bars before getting the setting down.

On top of that, unless you have a modern or converted box tool that takes carbide inserts (which cost about twice as much) the cutter is notoriously difficult to grind, unless you have- or can make- a fixture and have a good grinder or surface grinder.

Ditto the die heads. A cheap, well-used small die head (up to 5/16" threads) will start at about $300, one that can do up to 9/16" could be $700, and it goes up from there. And every time you need to do a different thread, you have to buy different chasers. Those aren't so bad, at anywhere from $25 to $70 a set. If a chaser goes dull, you virtually have to have a fixture and a surface grinder or tool & cutter grinder to resharpen them. Or send them in to the factory.

The "L shaped tool" is called a knee tool- and again, unless you buy a very expensive one ($300 or so) they're not micrometer adjustable. You set the diameter it cuts to by cut-and-try. Need a precise dimension? Expect to spend some material trying.

Drill holders, with few exceptions, are not set-and-forget. Unlike the normal drill chuck in a tailstock, the typical turret/screw-machine drill holder is a V--shaped piece, and changing the diameter of the drill means having to reset the holder back to center.

Remember, on all these tools, they're meant to be set, locked down, and then used to run hundreds or even thousands of identical parts.

Yes, small turret lathes have their uses. If you were closer, I'd give you five times your money for that thing. But as a first and/or only lathe, for general repairs and part-making? It's slow to set up, expensive to tool up, limited in size and capacity, and can be frustrating to run even for an experienced machinist.

Doc.