Ideal is private so we’ll never know. But I do think sales at the very least were holding steady; Channellock, Tekton, Husky, MasterForce and Kobalt were all made by them. Thats all 3 big box stores and 2 with large internet sales presence.
Pratt-Read is closing
- Thread starter glenng
- Start date
Ideal is private so we’ll never know. But I do think sales at the very least were holding steady; Channellock, Tekton, Husky, MasterForce and Kobalt were all made by them. Thats all 3 big box stores and 2 with large internet sales presence.
It’s easier to sell an idea and secure funding for new technologies and tech companies. A whole different game convincing investors to put their $ into older companies making hand tools that haven’t changed materially for 1000+ years.
I have ideas… 1st, US made tools are freat quality, but ugly as hell. Change aesthetics, make them look new. Japanese do a great job with style. So do Germans. Look at the attached pic. Kleins are ugly and haven’t changed since 30’s. Tsunoda, Knipex Engineers look cool.
2nd, marketing needs to cater to 25-45 y.o. with a more modern appeal.
3rd, invest in giving products to highschool shop classes and tech schools at cost.
Let me run that, I’ll beat the Chinese.
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My Dad was a maintenance mechanic (aka millwright) at an OSB mill for almost 40 years.
Mostly used Craftsman and Harbor Freight.
He would have never spent Snap On prices on tools when the "lesser" tools did just fine.
Finance Guy
Well-known member
While it’s not a perfect example (power tools vs. hand tools), this is exactly what that “Chinese” TTI did with Milwaukee.
TTI did a good job to be fair. But also, Milwaukee tools look cool and more modern compared to anything on the market. HOWEVER, Milwaukee tools engineering and product development is still done in Brookfield, WI. How much of it? I don’t know but I know the new Milwaukee ratcheting screwdrivers patent application has Brookfield, WI Engineers mentioned in the patent. So, like Apple, when you have close local oversight, it can be a good thing.
Another idea (Im on a roll); small electronics tool sets. Great modern design of tools catered to tech savy and gamers who build their own PC’s, game units. Linus Tech tips has made a few videos on tools he uses and has mentioned he prefers Snap On’s hard handle ratcheting screwdriver. So, there’s a small but very visible base there.
Need new leadership with a unique aesthetic vision. I think SK started down this path but just didn’t have the marketiNg $ to see it thru properly.
NWS, Beta, Engineer, Tsunoda, Fujiya, all have great aesthetics.
Women have Choo, Minolo, Red Bottom, Kitchen Aid, Dyson. Totally overpriced with cheaper alternatives that do the same if not do it better. Guys have tools and we are no different. Create the brand, create the look, create the hype, sales will come.
Finance Guy
Well-known member
Fully agreed … well said!
3baygarage
Well-known member
Cool visit HJE
Reading comprehension aside, I had merely stated that I don’t recall seeing their name on any screwdriver and since they closed their factory over 10 years ago, anything newer with their name on it is just a screwdriver with the name on it.
this thread is kind of moot point anyway, since “Pratt-Read closing down” means that a conglomerate is simply going to stop using their name on generic Products for sale, which is really nothing but meaningless corporate theatrics.
The problem is private labeling is a terrible business and with basically zero profit margin
CHI_Tool&Die
Well-known member
I feel like Ideal has been just as detrimental to US tool manufacturing as any VC firm. What the heck was their business strategy when they brought all these iconic companies under one tent? To buy them and then close them or sell them off for losses? I'm so confused.
I'm sad because screwdrivers are not something I enjoy spending tons of money on because I use them hard. My US-made ones handled the abuse the best, especially the consumer-orientated ones which were all WF or PR drivers under various other names. I enjoy my German drivers, but the costs are pretty high and the US industrial ones we use at work are way too expensive to justify for home use. This *****.
I'm sad because screwdrivers are not something I enjoy spending tons of money on because I use them hard. My US-made ones handled the abuse the best, especially the consumer-orientated ones which were all WF or PR drivers under various other names. I enjoy my German drivers, but the costs are pretty high and the US industrial ones we use at work are way too expensive to justify for home use. This *****.
Legion Prime
Well-known member
I know I've both bought and recommended Menards MasterForce drivers as the ones that say Made in the USA are made by Pratt Reed both here and to friends.
Smaller margins for US private label manufacturers. But I believe there’s $ to be made with volume.
Hotrod33809
Active member
My comment was basing off you saying you have never owned one or seen one in your hundreds of estate sales. If you were meaning never own or seen one branded under the Pratt-Read than name of course you didn't because they are an OEM manufacturer. If that was the point of your statement then I apogize but common sense would of indicated that you don't see a ton of Pratt-Read labelled stuff running around. Pratt-Read was never about putting their own name in screwdrivers. You have likely owned and seen hundreds of screwdrivers manufactured by Pratt-Read though.
Good point. I guess I didn’t realize that they never really spld their own brand of screwdrivers till after the company Went defunct and their name was simply quit on products made by someone else...
Legion Prime
Well-known member
Kind of ironic if you think about it.
once you get beaten by costs between the various suppliers their is minimal margin left for profit
Finance Guy
Well-known member
At the end of the day, if PR was actually making money, Ideal wouldn't be liquidating it ... they would be selling it.
Bubba Fett
Well-known member
Ideal ***** at marketing. They should have hired a marketing firm to do commercials, and market to retailers, as there is clearly a desire for USA-made tools, but virtually no one knows who Pratt-Read, Western Forge, and even SK were.
Making quality tools is only part of the process. You have to convince people to want them. But Pratt-Read (and Western Forge) did mostly private label manufacturing, and sold few tools under their own name...mainly to industrial suppliers like McMaster Carr.
Frankly, Ideal bit off more than they could chew, and didn't have any sort of backup plan when Sears went with Chinesium. That was a huge loss, and created a ripple effect across the industry. I figure Cree will be the next company they kill.
finn
Well-known member
There is really no real broad market for USA made tools. If there was a market there, PR, SK, and any number of US producers would still be with us.
Most consumers buy goods based first and foremost on price, not coo. A few here tout coo as a prime driver, but just as many are into boutique imported brands from Japan, Germany, or other overseas origins.
The few successful manufacturers of Professional US originated tools have products priced well above what an average consumer is willing to pay for something viewed as mundane as a tool.
Simply put, price is a bigger product differentiator than coo for most consumers.
I guess I’m just not understanding this.
forever, PR made screwdrivers or screwdriver components for other tool companies until they went bankrupt and close their factory over 10 years ago.
then, Ideal Started selling PR brand (finally) screwdrivers simply made in one of their other factories. Apparently no one cared enough to buy them so they’re not making them anymore.
What are they liquidating?
the legal entity and the contractsI guess I’m just not understanding this.
forever, PR made screwdrivers or screwdriver components for other tool companies until they went bankrupt and close their factory over 10 years ago.
then, Ideal Started selling PR brand (finally) screwdrivers simply made in one of their other factories. Apparently no one cared enough to buy them so they’re not making them anymore.
What are they liquidating?
If PR closed ten years ago, who has been making the “Made in USA” MasterForce screwdrivers, from Menards?
I have this set, it’s been great (it’s not sold as a set, I bought what I wanted, individually):
Lesserstore
Well-known member
The Pratt-Read factory closed a year or two after Ideal bought them, and the tooling was moved to Sycamore, Illinois where the Ideal and SK factory is. Pratt-Read was then basically just a name, and they used them mostly as a private label division along with WF.If PR closed ten years ago, who has been making the “Made in USA” MasterForce screwdrivers, from Menards?
I have this set, it’s been great (it’s not sold as a set, I bought what I wanted, individually):
Wrench97
Well-known member
To add Ideal is still making screwdrivers on that equipment only they are branded Ideal now.
www.gordonelectricsupply.com
IDEAL 35-166 6" RD-SHNK SCRDRV | Gordon Electric Supply, Inc.
IDEAL 35-166 Screwdriver 6" Round Shank, Keystone
www.gordonelectricsupply.com
Finance Guy
Well-known member
This may be true ... there may be nothing to liquidate.What are they liquidating?
My only point is that there is obviously no meaningful cash flow (probably negative cash flow) ... otherwise they wouldn't be shutting it down. If there was a real business there generating real cash flow, then it would be worth more than $0, which is what they're effectively selling* it for.
*Shutting it down = selling for $0
Finance Guy
Well-known member
The contracts are almost certainly non-transferable, and the legal entity is likely a shell with no value. If there is no manufacturing equipment, the only thing to sell would be the corporate name and any intellectual property.
when they liquidate the company its contracts are very likely void, and those they no longer have an obligation to fulfil them
metaldad
Well-known member
thanks for the link, glen
leonard, is an interesting guy, unfortunately, a dying breed
leonard, is an interesting guy, unfortunately, a dying breed
So, you’re saying my MasterForce screwdrivers were made on the old P-R tooling, after it was moved to Illinois? Or did I misunderstand?
Lesserstore
Well-known member
Yes, if they were purchased after 2010. I looked up when the factory closed, and in the article I read an Ideal spokesperson said that they never operated the PR factory and that all the equipment was moved to Ideal facilities. I had thought that Ideal kept the factory running for a year or two but I was wrong.
Ton ton
Well-known member
Nice thread,OP.
JerseyBoatBuilder
Well-known member
Not PR infor but since some one mentioned SK
From what I have read the company that owns Shopvac has moved all of the Sk tools manufacturing equipment to their P.a. location to set up and use..
From what I have read the company that owns Shopvac has moved all of the Sk tools manufacturing equipment to their P.a. location to set up and use..
Y00PER
Well-known member
Perhaps Mayhew? Wright tools just had a FB post showing new screwdrivers, and in the comments they mention that they are made by Mayhew.
Ton ton
Well-known member
Thank you for the update.
I almost wonder if the costs of new styling and innovating is what finally made Ideal sell SK. I mean, their super-strong X-frame wrenches must have been expensive to develop but not a ton of people recommend them. The LP90s were hit and miss. The socket sets they sold still came with the old (and super durable) round-heads. I mean, let's face it, Ideal tried to turn the company around. Quality control was worse before Ideal took them over. If a few of their products were more popular, things might be very different.
It's a common misconception that American CEOs have too short a time horizon. I believe that time horizon was something like 5 yrs for established, profitable firms. Private Equity and VC guys are comfortable not seeing profits for more years than that. Who predicted the trade war with China OR the lower corporate taxes 5 years before Trump's election? Who expected there to be global lockdowns distorting global supply chains? Trying to predict and plan around what the world will look like in ten or twenty years while ignoring the present and near future conditions is foolish. Also, there is time-value to money. Waiting an extra ten years to get the same amount of profit you could get today through liquidation is bad business.
As a side note, I check HJE and they are selling 13 piece SK sets in a metal case for $164.
15 Piece Full Range 3/8" Drive Fractional Socket Set (SK94515)
15 PIECE FULL RANGE 3/8 DRIVE FRACTIONAL SOCKET SET
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000MAOQVC/?tag=atomicindus08-20
I think this tells us that many SK buyers are nostalgia buyers. I'm a 1911 guy myself but come on, $10 per socket from a company who might not exist in a year, just because it comes in small metal box and not a plastic one?
Bubba Fett
Well-known member
Looks like A&L handles is also gone. They were a subsidiary of PR, and made screwdriver/chisel/prybar handles for damn near everyone.
I hope Ideal offers a full line of acetate drivers under their own brand, assuming they still have the tooling and didn't sell all that to Great Star as well. The Cushion grip drivers at Lowe's are pretty good, but the selection is very limited.
I hope Ideal offers a full line of acetate drivers under their own brand, assuming they still have the tooling and didn't sell all that to Great Star as well. The Cushion grip drivers at Lowe's are pretty good, but the selection is very limited.
Finance Guy
Well-known member
I don't have any idea how much Ideal purchased SK for, or how much they invested in developing new products. However, I do know they ultimately sold to Great Star who, from what I understand, is a deep value turnaround investor ... in other words, 1) Great Star was probably the only buyer, and 2) they probably paid very little. From this I surmise that SK was probably losing money, and Ideal decided to jettison the business and get whatever they could for it.
I strongly suspect that PR was in a similar situation, and Ideal probably tried to offload PR to Great Star as well, again the only potential buyer in town. When Great Star passed, they opted to shut it down and liquidate any assets.
While both of these companies may have long, proud histories ... in 2021, the were probably losing market share and generating losses on thin margins.
(Limited information results in a lot of probably's).
Saw this a few days ago on local CL.
A&L Handles - Facility Closure of a Mfr of Custom Plastic Handles -...
Online Auction Pottstown, PA A&L Handles - Facility Closure of a Trusted Manufacturer of Custom Plastic Handles for Screwdrivers, Chisels, & Nut Drivers Featuring: Plastic Extrusion Lines...
lancaster.craigslist.org
Local news article from 2019 says they made handles "mostly for Sears and Craftsman"
How They Make It Berks County Style: A&L Handles
The past three Monday's we've featured entrepreneurs who started their businesses in Berks County. This week, we look just over the Berks County line to Pottstown, where a manufacturer is
Sears going belly up affected a lot of people further down the chain I guess.
Ton ton
Well-known member
Too bad this happened , I like the handles of craftsman brand screwdrivers.