Pre-flank drive snapon 12 point sockets

[spencerdiesel]

Hey all, I've acquired a few sets of SAE Snap-on sockets. They are all 12 pt, and all are the underline logo dating no later than the early 70's. There are 2 sets of deep chrome 1/2" drive sockets from 1/2" to 1". One set is non flank drive and the other is.

Im going to sell one set to a friend of mine and while I assume the flank drives would be the kind to keep, I thought it wise to ask y'all first.

Keep flank drive or non?

Thanks y'all

 

[JohnDeere1]

I didn't know the older 12 pts were flank drive ,I have a few sets from '81-'82 that were my father's didn't even think they were flank drive. I would choose the flank drive because 12 pts are already bad for rounding off fasteners but didn't snap on have flank drive since the 50s?

 

[rlitman]

Flank Drive is a technology you'll find in any halfway decent modern socket.
I'd sooner use new HF Pittsburgh Pro sockets, than I'd use old pre-flank drive SO sockets.

 

[rlitman]

...but didn't snap on have flank drive since the 50s?

That's what I thought too. Flank Drive's patents are LONG expired.

 

[gigamel]

Patent publication date Feb 17, 1970

"This invention relates to socket drives and more particularly to wrench sockets of the flank drive type effective to engage the sides rather than the corners of standard fasteners"

Keep the Flank Drive

 

[spencerdiesel]

Thanks y'all that's what I was thinking. These sockets came from a man who's father bought them new. He was a mechanic from the late 40's to the late 60's or early 70's.

I'll keep the flank drives then. I am curious though as to why he bought only
12 pt sockets. I got 4 sets of chrome SAE sockets and all of them are 12 pt

 

[Gmonkee]

He used a 24T ratchet.

 

[spencerdiesel]

THAT makes sense

 

[JohnDeere1]

Seems most old sockets I find are 12pt the sets from my dad are both he was smart enough to buy both. Every time I find newer sockets they are 6pt. funny how it works. I prefer 6pt I never use the 12pt they are just taking up space as I have many sets in my box of the same sizes way more than I need or ever will at that. Some bolts I know are 12pt I've came across a few. Nice of you to hook your friend up with the other set none of my friends can even use a screwdriver I believe.

 

[Tonyuk]

There's absolutely nothing modern about "flank drive" its just the splines of the sockets and a bit longer and rounded so that they catch a bit before the corner of the fastener. Every decent 12 point socket or wrench i've ever used has had some form of flank drive profile, even 6 point sockets have a form of corner relief.

 

[larry_g]

There's absolutely nothing modern about "flank drive" its just the splines of the sockets and a bit longer and rounded so that they catch a bit before the corner of the fastener. Every decent 12 point socket or wrench i've ever used has had some form of flank drive profile, even 6 point sockets have a form of corner relief.

That statement is age dependent. I can remember when Flank Drive was the newest and latest. So to me it is a modern development.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Infinia]

That statement is age dependent. I can remember when Flank Drive was the newest and latest. So to me it is a modern Marketing development.

there I fixed it for you.
All my old sockets work fine. Looking at the contact patch none are actually on the "corner". I think the original sales pitch went "look at these new ones they'll work better on rounded/ damaged hex fasteners" Strange how the young'uns think nothing worked before sliced Wonder bread.

 

[gungatim]

you know, thinking about "flank drive" how exactly is it different from non-flank drive? any socket engages the flats, sort of impossible to only touch the actual corner as it would just spin around the hex.

so....flank drive, I assume, just engages the flat a little further from the corner than a regular socket. if that is a correct assumption, then wouldn't flank drive require MORE torque to remove a fastener due to shorter leverage?

what then is the advantage, other than on a rounded or damaged fastener? (assuming 12pt, because a 6 pt would engage no matter how rounded the corners are, at least at some point, no?)

just curious...

 

[rlitman]

you know, thinking about "flank drive" how exactly is it different from non-flank drive? any socket engages the flats, sort of impossible to only touch the actual corner as it would just spin around the hex.

so....flank drive, I assume, just engages the flat a little further from the corner than a regular socket. if that is a correct assumption, then wouldn't flank drive require MORE torque to remove a fastener due to shorter leverage?

what then is the advantage, other than on a rounded or damaged fastener? (assuming 12pt, because a 6 pt would engage no matter how rounded the corners are, at least at some point, no?)

just curious...

Pre Flank Drive, sockets were geometric shapes, just as the bolt heads are.
Flank Drive introduced a socket with a shape that engages the fastener off the corner.

It does this by using six bulging curved facets, and additionally, the corners of the broaching are rounded too, which makes the socket less likely to split at a corner from a stress riser. It is a HUGE technological advance from what came before. But just about everyone is using this concept today.

Remember, there will always be clearance between a socket and a fastener head. If there were no clearance, the socket would be press fit, right? So, the idea is just to make the most of this situation.

 

[gungatim]

the picture helps.

I guess the leverage really doesn't come into play at all, since you are engaging equally no matter what part of the fastener you hit.

 

[joel63]

the picture helps.

I guess the leverage really doesn't come into play at all, since you are engaging equally no matter what part of the fastener you hit.

From 1967 Snap on catalog:

http://www.collectingsnapon.com/catalogs/catalogs.php?loggedin=0&catalogPage=2267

I don't know if it was a marketing ploy or what, but it is definitely common place today.

Now Flank Drive plus, well that's another story.

 

[Gmonkee]

Sooner or later its just changing the hat on the Malibu Stacy doll.

That wheel has been re-invented the last time by now and unless you are working with ground contact equiptment or salt water related stuff most any will work.
Old or new designs,

Most new patents are design patents meaning the same thing as one created in 1952 just never had a comfort grip handle before.
It gets harder every decade to find new ways to turn a bolt.

 

[gungatim]

here we're talking tools and you had to go and bring up Malibu Stacy....she was so sassy with her different hats. too bad Ken had no tool to flank-drive with...

 

[Infinia]

]

I don't know if it was a marketing ploy or what, but it is definitely common place today.

Marketing Test
If it causes you to buy newer things solving "a problem" that they've invented or highlighted.
Then yeah it meets the marketing / sales "technique" or whatever moniker you want to use. They plant the seed in your mind that there's a problem and that only their widget/tool/thingy makes it all better.
I cant see that not having it as a real problem or one that caused me any grief. Is it an improvement? Maybe /probably BUT depends on the type of work you do and the tools youre giving up.. LOL I don't encounter a lot of damaged fasteners.

 

[rlitman]

... LOL I don't encounter a lot of damaged fasteners.

Look closely at your sockets. I'm guessing that they already have some sort of comparable technology to Flank Drive. Now I think it is fair to say that the comparisons of Flank Drive vs other similar designs may be marketing techniques, but to say that they are only needed for damaged fasteners in comparison to what came before is just plain wrong. Straight sided sockets are the biggest CAUSE of damaged fasteners.

 

[Infinia]

Look closely at your sockets. I'm guessing that they already have some sort of comparable technology to Flank Drive. Now I think it is fair to say that the comparisons of Flank Drive vs other similar designs may be marketing techniques, but to say that they are only needed for damaged fasteners in comparison to what came before is just plain wrong. Straight sided sockets are the biggest CAUSE of damaged fasteners.

IDK when did the patent run out? all socket corners are radius'd to some degree does that count.
My oldest ( circa early 70's) and most used-n-abused set is 1/2" all 12 points. sockets look fine infact really good to the amount of work. Its an unknown brand but I rate it as upperside of midrange tools certainly better than Cman. Id say cheap fasteners and over-torque are the biggest cause of damaged fasteners, not socket shapes. Infact 'flank drive + is well known for damaged fasteners so clearly that's not upmost concern. All tools have have their trade-offs and priorities , I certainly would NOT put flank drive as no.1 on the list.

 

[Gmonkee]

I will concede that bottom of the barrel lead alloy junk imports ans a lot of the old hex drive sockets I used as a kid were present with damaged fasteners.
But also they were in the hands of a ham handed kid with no experience that was learning fast cross threading the wrong nut on isn't locktite.

The user has to know when to reef on it like the devil and when to sweet talk with a different technique to avoid damages.

In the heavy equiptment shop it might have been order new bolts with the piece and blue tip wrench the old off. In auto body it was a nut breaker before the hammer or torch.
Gotta know what to sacrifice in bad situations.