Precision Bilt tools

[Shelbylex]

Good evening.

Got myself more tools recently and one of them was an old rusty wrench. Started cleaning it today and discovered a sign under a thick layer of rust: Precision Bilt. Initially thought that it was a self-made tool with a spelling mistake, but then found some references on GJ:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385595 DADSTOOLS
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=363163 PRIVATE LUGNUTS
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31127...

This is a Precision Bilt DBE long wrench similar to the one posted by DADSTOOLS (15/16-1") with 0.05CHR 0.05 VAN 4006 written on the other side.

I did a little bit of research:
In history of Spiegel Inc. (http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=1968) there is a mention that Spiegel Department stores used to sell brands called Journeyman and Precision Bilt. Some sites suggest it was built 30s-40s, some go as far as 50s (mostly tool discussions mentioning woodworking machinery). It appears to me that Spiegel was outsourcing the production to other companies as I could not find anything about Precision Bilt on Allow artifact.

Notlob, if you are reading it: you posted a catalog for Spiegel previously, but the link does not work. Can you repost it please?

So...
1. Do you have any further information, scanned catalogs or anything else about this company?
2. Please post the tools you have - we might create our own catalog...

Sorry for poor pictures - was working since early morning today and have no power to take more shots... Once I find some time, I will try to clean this wrench and post proper pictures...

 

[notlob]

Here's the link to the tool page of the 1942 Spiegel Christmas catalog - still works for me:
http://www.wishbookweb.com/FB/1942_Spiegel_Holiday_Catalog/#108

Here's a screenshot of that page.

 

[Shelbylex]

Great! Thank you, Notlob

 

[DadsTools]

Funny....second time this morning encountering new threads mentioning the Lectrolite boys. You guys probably know I'm into LC. I only know that all LC-made Precision-Bilt wrenches I've seen were based on the it's WW2 and ealier designs. Sometime in the late 1940s (to my best estimates due to a gross lack of reference catalogs), LC re-vamped its entire wrench line into two basic styles: the raised panel 'Lectrolite' that became SK-Lectrolite around 1952, and the recessed panel budget TruFit design. I've yet to encounter any Precision-Bilt marked wrenches of the post-war LC design. This may mean that Spiegel stopped using LC as a contract supplier at that time, or it stopped selling house-branded wrenches. I seem to recall seeing a later Spiegel catalog that showed wrenches but were no longer house-branded, so at some point they killed the Precision-bilt name on wrenches. That's all I have on it.

 

[r_olson_06]

Here is a pic of what I have.

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[DadsTools]

Here is a pic of what I have.

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LC did not make ratchets or sockets, so these would have been made by another mfr for speigel.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Here is a pic of what I have.

Hi Roy,

When you get a chance, please make a list of the sockets you have by size, number of points in the broaching, and model number [edit]and marking[/edit]. I found a set last year, including the metal case, ratchet, and hinge handles, but only five (5) sockets. Please post your inventory here or in my GJ thread for that set, linked here. AA does not have any Precision-Bilt tools or info, Spiegel catalogs (considered collectibles) are expensive to come by, your partial set is the only Precision-Bilt midget set I have ever seen other than mine, and yours has more sockets than mine, so I am hoping that between our sets we can establish the contents for an accurate Tools Archive page.

Here is the contents of my set (incl exact markings and model numbers)...

Ratchet: Precision-Bilt 9093
Hinged handle: Precision-Bilt 9094
1/4” 6-point: P-B 9098
9/32” 6-point: Precision-Bilt 9099
1/4” 8-point: Precision-Bilt 9104
5/16” 8-point: Precision-Bilt 9105
3/8” 8-point: Precision-Bilt 9106

Judging by other New Britain empire midget socket sets in that era, and the fact that the tray in my case will hold eleven (11) sockets, I am postulating that my set is missing six (6) 6-point sockets:

3/16” (and extrapolating, probably 9096),
7/32” (9097?),
5/16” (9110?)
11/32” (9111?)
3/8” (9112?)
7/16” (9114?)

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I only know that all LC-made Precision-Bilt wrenches I've seen were based on the it's WW2 and ealier designs. Sometime in the late 1940s (to my best estimates due to a gross lack of reference catalogs), LC re-vamped its entire wrench line into two basic styles: the raised panel 'Lectrolite' that became SK-Lectrolite around 1952, and the recessed panel budget TruFit design. I've yet to encounter any Precision-Bilt marked wrenches of the post-war LC design. This may mean that Spiegel stopped using LC as a contract supplier at that time, or it stopped selling house-branded wrenches. I seem to recall seeing a later Spiegel catalog that showed wrenches but were no longer house-branded, so at some point they killed the Precision-bilt name on wrenches. That's all I have on it.

Define "later." I can confirm with 100% certainty that there are NO hand tools of any kind in the 1954 Spiegel Fall/Winter catalog. I have been trying to narrow down the production era of my Precision-Bilt midget socket set, which I postulated was late 1940s to 1950's. Several 1942, 1946, and 1951 Spiegel catalogs have been available in auctions since last year, but not at prices I care to spend for my research. [edit]When I manage to get ahold of any, I will share the info with you DBE wrench guys.[/edit]

LC did not make ratchets or sockets, so these would have been made by another mfr for speigel.

New Britain.

 

[r_olson_06]

Hi Roy,

When you get a chance, please make a list of the sockets you have by size, number of points in the broaching, and model number [edit]and marking[/edit]. I found a set last year, including the metal case, ratchet, and hinge handles, but only five (5) sockets. Please post your inventory here or in my GJ thread for that set, linked here. AA does not have any Precision-Bilt tools or info, Spiegel catalogs (considered collectibles) are expensive to come by, your partial set is the only Precision-Bilt midget set I have ever seen other than mine, and yours has more sockets than mine, so I am hoping that between our sets we can establish the contents for an accurate Tools Archive page.

Here is the contents of my set (incl exact markings and model numbers)...

Ratchet: Precision-Bilt 9093
Hinged handle: Precision-Bilt 9094
1/4” 6-point: P-B 9098
9/32” 6-point: Precision-Bilt 9099
1/4” 8-point: Precision-Bilt 9104
5/16” 8-point: Precision-Bilt 9105
3/8” 8-point: Precision-Bilt 9106

Judging by other New Britain empire midget socket sets in that era, and the fact that the tray in my case will hold eleven (11) sockets, I am postulating that my set is missing six (6) 6-point sockets:

3/16” (and extrapolating, probably 9096),
7/32” (9097?),
5/16” (9110?)
11/32” (9111?)
3/8” (9112?)
7/16” (9114?)

Will do. But these are all 3/8 and 1/2. No midgets here.

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[Private Lugnutz]

Will do. But these are all 3/8 and 1/2. No midgets here.

Interesting. I've found ads (all between 1949 and 1951, nothing earlier) for a 36-pc master socket set that included 1/2-inch and 1/4-inch drive pcs, but no signs of a 3/8-inch drive set. I'll post later. And I'll be curious to see more photos of your tools and the list of model numbers. Thanks!

 

[r_olson_06]

Interesting. I've found ads (all between 1949 and 1951, nothing earlier) for a 36-pc master socket set that included 1/2-inch and 1/4-inch drive pcs, but no signs of a 3/8-inch drive set. I'll post later. And I'll be curious to see more photos of your tools and the list of model numbers. Thanks!

Here is what I have:
9056 3/4" X 1/2Dr 12pt
9115 9/16" X 1/2"Dr 8pt
9114 1/2" X 1/2"Dr 8pt
9054 5/8" X 1/2"Dr 12pt

9085 3/4" X 3/8Dr. 12pt
9084 11/16" X 3/8"Dr 12pt
9083 5/8" X 3/8"Dr 12pt
9082 9/16" X 3/8"Dr 12pt
9080 3/8" X 3/8"Dr 12pt

9072 3/8" Dr Ratchet


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[r_olson_06]

And the pictures.

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[DadsTools]

Define "later." I can confirm with 100% certainty that there are NO hand tools of any kind in the 1954 Spiegel Fall/Winter catalog. I have been trying to narrow down the production era of my Precision-Bilt midget socket set, which I postulated was late 1940s to 1950's. Several 1942, 1946, and 1951 Spiegel catalogs have been available in auctions since last year, but not at prices I care to spend for my research. [edit]When I manage to get ahold of any, I will share the info with you DBE wrench guys.[/edit]

Sorry, Lugz, I can't define 'later' in terms of what year because I simply can't recall. If my memory serves me, someone had posted an image somewhere of tools in a Spiegel catalog that were just listed generically with no branding, and it was a later year than a posted catalog page showing the Precision-Bilt brand, the latter of which I believe was the wishbookweb link Notlob posted above.

The single PB piece I've encountered (other than posted catalog and member photos), which was a long DBE, enabled me to confirm these were indeed made by Lectrolite. It was of a style prior to LC's revamping of its line, which began sometime in the late 1940s and appears to have been completed by the LC/S-K collaboration. I don't know a thing about the socket sets beyond what's been posted here, and that LC never made socket sets.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Sorry, Lugz, I can't define 'later' in terms of what year because I simply can't recall.

Thanks.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Roy,

Based on the Fors patent ratchet, the socket style, and markings, and the chrome-plating, there's no doubt that your Precision-Bilt 1/2- and 3/8-inch drive pcs were made by New Britain at the same time as my Precision-Bilt 1/4-inch drive set, and that production has to be sometime between 1946, after New Britain dropped the Costello ratchet, and the mid- 1950's, before New Britain moved to the Kilness ratchet. The 1948 NONE BETTER catalog and the 1953 New Britain catalog both show Fors patent ratchets for all drive sizes.

That also fits with my Spiegel research to date. As I said above, Spiegel appears to have dropped hand tools from their catalogs by 1954. My advertising searches seem to confirm that. They were heavily advertising automotive parts, power tools, and hand tools, including socket sets, in 1949 and 1950. In 1951, I can only find ads for automotive parts, no tools. I can't find any ads for Spiegel Precision-Bilt tools earlier than 1949.

I was saving these figures and findings for a Tools Archive page, but I may as well share them here now. The TA page will have more details and photos eventually.

Pic 1 is an ad for a 36-pc "Precision-Bilt Tool Set" excerpted from a 1949 newspaper.

Pics 2 & 3 are zooms on the same ad.

Pic 4 is the same set, less detail, from a different newspaper ad, also 1949.

They appear to be New Britain tools. (Interestingly, the 1/4-inch set in this set does not include the ratchet.)

 

[r_olson_06]

Lugz if it would help with your research I am willing to part with the sockets. I want to keep the ratchet though. Send me a PM if you are interested.

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[notlob]

Here are the two tool pages from the 1955 Spiegel Christmas catalog. Note that none of the hand tools are identified by brand.

http://www.wishbookweb.com/FB/1955_Spiegel_Christmas_Catalog/#296

 

[DadsTools]

Here are the two tool pages from the 1955 Spiegel Christmas catalog. Note that none of the hand tools are identified by brand.

http://www.wishbookweb.com/FB/1955_Spiegel_Christmas_Catalog/#296

Well, there we have it.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks, notlob! (Odd that they didn't show them in 54, unless I missed them.) That's still the New Britain Fors patent rat.

Edit... oh, and thank goodness for people willing to share their cat images, and your research techniques. I'm coming up empty after 51 on newspapers.com. /edit

 

[Private Lugnutz]

So, between my 1949 newspaper ads and notlob's 1955 Spiegel catalog, we've got the Precision-Bilt production era potentially hemmed in to that period, at the least. It's possible it ended a little later in the 50's. And it's possible it started sooner. But no sooner than 1947, apparently. Based on a Spiegel Spring 1946 catalog I just purchased for research purposes, Spiegel was not yet selling New Britain made socket sets with the Precision-Bilt brand name in 1946.

Pic 1 [A] is the figure of a 51-pc Deluxe combination 1/4-, 3/8-, and 1/2-inch drive socket set that sure looks like all S-K to me.

Pic 2 [A] is the description of that set.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Various sets were also available separately.

Picture 1 is a 14-pc 3/8-inch drive set. Again, that looks like S-K to me.

Picture 2 [E] is a 12-pc 1/2-inch drive set. Oddly, that one looks like possibly Williams to me.

Picture 3 [F] is a 17-pc 1/4-inch drive set. S-K again, unless I'm mistaken.

Underneath those images in Pictures 4, 5, & 6 are the descriptions of the sets above.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The catalog also offers a 13-pc 3/4-inch drive set. I'm not sure about this one.

 

[3baygarage]

Various sets were also available separately.

Picture 1 is a 14-pc 3/8-inch drive set. Again, that looks like S-K to me.

Picture 2 [E] is a 12-pc 1/2-inch drive set. Oddly, that one looks like possibly Williams to me.

Picture 3 [F] is a 17-pc 1/4-inch drive set. S-K again, unless I'm mistaken.

Underneath those images in Pictures 4, 5, & 6 are the descriptions of the sets above.

I would say Set E is of Duro/Indestro mfr.. Not sure on the 3/4 set. Looks like a push thru rat but who knows, could be a bad rendering of SK. The rest sure seem to be SK.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I would say Set E is of Duro/Indestro mfr..

You may be right. I didn't see knurling. Made me think of the smooth recess in the Williams stuff. But that smooth band is wider on Williams, so yeah, you may be right.

 

[d42jeep]

Take a look at this Indestro bar. That’s my vote for set E
-Don

 

[r_olson_06]

Picked up this 1/4 set off of the bay. Just need a 1/2 drive ratchet to complete the trifecta.

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[Private Lugnutz]

Tools look to be in way better condition than the box, despite the box! The outside of the box looks red (probably re-painted), but the metallic blue on the inside of the lid looks close to the same blue on my box. Linked here. I'm assuming those holes are for pop rivets, and the badge is missing. If not, post a pic.

 

[r_olson_06]

Tools look to be in way better condition than the box, despite the box! The outside of the box looks red (probably re-painted), but the metallic blue on the inside of the lid looks close to the same blue on my box. Linked here. I'm assuming those holes are for pop rivets, and the badge is missing. If not, post a pic.

I never knew about precision bilt until that post lugz. I think you are correct on the holes and color.

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[BFBOB]

... and, let's not forget this little gem. Yes, it's from Precision-Bilt. Love to get my hands on one!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

That's a looker! Space Age-y. I'll have to go back through the ads I found and the catalogs I have. I remembering seeing a vise. I don't remember it looking like that though!

 

[four.cycle]

I think I posted this set previously in the 1/4" drive socket set thread. The breaker (flex handle) doesn't look like S-K to me, but I could be mistaken. I think it more resembles a 2850 Indestro (or 4550 Duro Chrome.) The sockets appear quite different from contemporaneous Duro-Indestro product, however.
I thought I had a ratchet here somewhere for this set.

Precision Bilt (Spiegel) 1/4" drive SAE socket set

Precision Bilt (Spiegel) 1/4" drive SAE socket set

 

[Oldtuleguy]

These were new britain made

 

[Private Lugnutz]

 

[four.cycle]

does that breaker have somewhat oversize-looking "rivet heads" where the pin is inserted through the drive head?

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I would say so

 

[3baygarage]

I think I posted this set previously in the 1/4" drive socket set thread. The breaker (flex handle) doesn't look like S-K to me, but I could be mistaken. I think it more resembles a 2850 Indestro (or 4550 Duro Chrome.) The sockets appear quite different from contemporaneous Duro-Indestro product, however.
I thought I had a ratchet here somewhere for this set.

Your set is New Britain as well. Including the breaker.

 

[four.cycle]

thanks.... there might be another one of those around here. I thought I had a set with a ratchet.

 

[rust in the eye]

Here is an example of a Precision-Bilt 1/2" combination wrench, S-1162
Manufacturer "LC" has been mentioned above. Is that Lectrolite Corp.?
Style and finish seem to match a Lectrolite Corp. wrench shown at alloy artifacts
If anyone feels this belongs in their collection send me a PM, I ain't using it.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Some wrenches of lectrolite origin

 

[JMP]

I just bought this Precision-Bilt 9093 1/4 drive ratchet. I knew it was worth picking up since I already have a 1/2 Wards branded Fors ratchet.