Precision Instruments new 'FX' wrenches out of calibration

[Wizzard]

I've had very good accuracy out of their standard M line F series micrometers, within 1.5% accuracy. But PI's new FX series (X = extended range) have fallen short.

Advertised range is 3%, I was consistently getting up to 7+% at multiple settings that were tested in the 20-100% range on multiple FX series fresh out of the box, wrenches were exercised before measuring. This was in a climate controlled setting with a very recently NIST traceable calibrated digital torque checker that is not cheap.

An extended range of 30-250 ft lbs (50-250 was their standard F range) seems completely pointless, you simply get a separate wrench for the lower ranges. Not sure if it's a design issue or the calibraters at PI doing a sloppy job.

Just a heads-up of my recent experience, I was quite disappointed as all my TQ wrenches are PI. This might explain why they simply throw a generic +/-3% "certificate" in the case but don't provide any data points on it.

 

[corn chip]

thats interesting. do you think they just test maybe every 50th wrench and throw generic certificates in all the boxes ?
i couldnt speak for other brands as i only have stahlwille ( three of them ) but this is one of the certificates. im assuming they test every single wrench, judging by the the info listed on the paper

 

[Snapped-off]

That's unfortunate. Have you contacted PI?

The certificates my CDI's came with listed the torque specs they were checked at and what they clicked at.

My only PI is a 1/2" split beam for wheels.

 

[bsaint]

Isn't PI a value version of CDI?

 

[Finance Guy]

Isn't PI a value version of CDI?

I thought it was the other way around … I’ll be interested to see replies.

 

[Wizzard]

PI used to make the tq wrenches for Snap on a while back, they stopped at some point in the 2000s (year) if I'm not mistaken. CDI is now a Snap On company and makes the tq wrenches for Snap On, generally the same wrench with Snap On's ratcheting head on it.

In my opinion PI's calibration "certificate" (I use that loosely) is not meaningful, it is simply a pre-printed card stock that states the wrench is within its advertised range. Nothing official about it, no data points etc. This also gives them more leeway when calibrating if you think about it...because the calibration is "close enough." Also it leaves little accountability towards the employee performing the calibration if there are no data points included.

CDI and the Stahlwille example above is doing it right by providing tested specs. But to be ~7% off in multiple wrenches at that high price range is beyond unacceptable. Either a labor issue or a design issue, no other way about it. I was able to temporarily acquire a new in box 40-250 Lb Ft PI split beam, I will test that one today and see how it does, it came with PI's generic pre-printed +/-4% certificate. The digital tester I will be using today was recently calibrated to +/- 0.5% with a NIST traceable certificate. Maybe a YouTube video is in order since many folks don't have access to such equipment.

The 'FX' series which is not listed on their website, but they confirmed themselves it is a "new model" seems like it is geared for novice consumers, but novice consumers aren't going to spend $175+ on a micrometer clicker. The 30-250 Lb Ft range is silly. It could be that the old timers at PI have fallen out of touch with their customer base. The regular M series 'F' wrench is back ordered for months, PI is dropping the ball on production there.

 

[dnschmidt]

If you're into clicker torque wrenches these are the bomb. Yea, they're made in China but were designed and backed up by a USA importer. I have three of them and love them. They are based on an excellent Norbar design.

Amazon.com

 

[Wizzard]

If you're into clicker torque wrenches these are the bomb. Yea, they're made in China but were designed and backed up by a USA importer. I have three of them and love them. They are based on an excellent Norbar design.

Amazon.com

I've come to realize there are good options these days for tq wrenches at lower price points, the Icons from Harbor Freight are testing very well out of the box (I never thought I'd say that about HF). And it seems Taiwanese workers are dilegent when initially calibrating.

The new in box PI split beam I tested today was just within the spec'd 4% range (3-4%). Most places offer a proper certificate when sending off wrenches for re-calibration (unlike the one PI includes in the box), I will definitely be utilizing that option in the future as it adds a small layer of accountability in the accuracy of work performed. Seems like a lot of corners are being cut these days.

If any of the higher priced companies have a price increase then they will not be worth it imo, too many other options out there.

 

[Finance Guy]

And it seems Taiwanese workers are dilegent when initially calibrating.

...not just calibrating.

 

[Outahere]

This PI video from 2017 shows the torque tester they use for testing all their wrenches after manufacturing is complete. It has an accuracy of 0.1% and is built by PI. Start at the 2:15 time point in the video to hear their brief comment about accuracy.

 

[Wizzard]

This PI video from 2017 shows the torque tester they use for testing all their wrenches after manufacturing is complete. It has an accuracy of 0.1% and is built by PI. Start at the 2:15 time point in the video to hear their brief comment about accuracy.

Informative, thank you for the vid. But calling BS that each and every wrench gets the same care of calibration treatment based on my small sample tests. I have a new PI wrench clocking 8% off and the pre-printed paper it shipped with says it's within 3%. The new 40-250 Lb split beam measured just outside 4% a few pulls when measuring peak.

PI needs to include a certificate with data points at that price.

 

[dnschmidt]

This is why the buy American thing seems rediculous to me. Buy quality no matter where it's made is my vote. I have a **** load of torque wrenches including PI. All of my Taiwanese Eclatorq, TOPTUL, and Torque-Tech torque wrenches come with signed calibration certificates with both the serial number of the wrench and the date of the test on them. So to do the eTorq wrenches that I recommended above which are made in China. The days when made in America meant that something was the best are long gone.

 

[Outahere]

....Advertised range is 3%, I was consistently getting up to 7+% at multiple settings that were tested in the 20-100% range on multiple FX series fresh out of the box, wrenches were exercised before measuring....

Have you contacted PI for a warranty replacement or repair?

 

[Outahere]

....wrenches were exercised before measuring....

5 pulls at maximum torque, before measuring?

 

[Wizzard]

Did not contact PI for warranty...back to the retailer they went. I refuse to waste my time with something that should be correct out of the box. I wonder how many other people's PI wrenches are out of spec who don't have the means to test.

Yes, I exercised before measuring...after as well because I was like "wtf?"

 

[Outahere]

About a year and and half ago I bought a PI split beam 3/8" drive 600 in-lb torque wrench from Tool Source:

Toolsource.com - Precision Instruments C2FR600H 3/8 In Dr Split Beam Click Type F

Precision Instruments C2FR600H 3/8" Drive Split Beam Click Type Flex Head Torque Wrench - 600 in-lbs Split-Beam Click Wrenches overcome many of the problems associated with micrometer-style click wrenches in abusive environments. The wrench has few components, and all critical parts are welded...

www.toolsource.com

I paid $123, but it has skyrocketed in price to $167 today.

My wrench has seen very light use, less than 50 cycles. A few weeks ago I sent it off to an accredited calibration lab, Team Torque in Bismarck, ND for a calibration check.

The wrench failed to meet its accuracy specification of +/- 4%.

The torque error at 120 in-lb was +5.39%
The torque error at 360 in-lb was +4.29%
The torque error at 600 in-lb was +2.08%

After the technician adjusted the calibration, the error values are:

The torque error at 120 in-lb is now +0.99%
The torque error at 360 in-lb is now +1.20%
The torque error at 600 in-lb is now +0.52%

This makes me wonder if Precision Instruments is actually checking the accuracy of each individual torque wrench, or are they taking a statistical approach and only checking every tenth sample or every 50th sample. This would explain why they do not include a serial # specific calibration certificate with the split beam wrenches.

Precision Instruments gets a thumbs down from me.

I also have a newer PI 250 ft-lb split beam wrench, about a year old. I don't trust it anymore. I will be sending that out for a calibration.

 

[Steve_P]

This is very interesting, and disappointing to hear, that PI appears to be doing a rubber stamp calibration approval. Most of my torque wrenches are CDI and they all included a calibration certificate like the Stahlwille above. I have one Gearwrench USA made one, ~15 years old, and it also came with a calibration cert like the CDIs do.

 

[Outahere]

I received my 1/2" drive 50-250ft-lb PI split beam torque wrench back from the accredited calibration lab today. I bought the wrench summer of 2021 and have put less than 50 cycles on it. The wrench failed to meet its 4% accuracy specification.

At 50ft-lb, the wrench had an error of +12% !
At 150ft-lb, the wrench had an error of +4.3%
At 250ft-lb, the wrench had an error of +2.8%

After a calibration adjustment by the technician, all test values are now within +/- 1.0% at 50, 100, 150, 200, and 250 ft-lb

The wrench is capable of excellent accuracy, but not directly from the factory it seems. If you buy a new PI split beam I recommend sending it to a calibration lab for a proper calibration that includes a real calibration certificate with test data printed on it. Or buy a Tekton split beam instead of PI. They guarantee 2.5% accuracy, and prove it with a real calibration certificate, with data specific to a unique serial number.

 

[Outahere]

......do you think they just test maybe every 50th wrench and throw generic certificates in all the boxes ?

I think that is very likely to be the case at the PI factory.

 

[Outahere]

....In my opinion PI's calibration "certificate" (I use that loosely) is not meaningful...

I agree 100%

 

[silkman]

Shame on PI

 

[silkman]

To add to the discussion, heres how a Hazet calibration certificate looks like.

Tool tested 5 times at min, max and mid values. What I don't understand is why the median value is 192 Nm instead of 190 (60+320) / 2


Any "calibration certificate" without unique serial number is obviously worthless.

 

[Outahere]

This is a PI certificate. It has a serial number, but no test data.

 

[Outahere]

This is a Norbar certificate

 

[silkman]

This is a PI certificate. It has a serial number, but no test data.

See any problem with this certificate compared to the other 3 from Stahlwille, Hazet and Norbar?

 

[ricleh]

Snapon torque wrench calibration certificate