Preferred method or wiring receptacles/wire strippers

[MrMark]

You know, I now have no idea what you are talking about. The receptacle side terminals absolutely feed through when downstream supply conductors are attached to them and the devices are in parallel.

By the way, I find no manufacturer stating that their non GFCI receptacles are rated for 20 amp feed through. We all seem to assume this is so, but where is the spec?

Perhaps the UL has tested this and OK's it but I consider it an open issue on the feedthrough for those that like to use the side terminals and not pigtail.

That's why a bad connection on a daisy chained device using just the screws will fail downstream outlets. A pigtail IS a daisy chain, just done in a completely electrically equivalent way to using all 4 screws. A pigtail is simply a superior substitute for using the device connection terminal feed through feature.

If all you are trying to say is that the prongs of the receptacle do not feed through then that is true but you are just being confusing right now. Maybe you are arguing that the side terminals are not part of the receptacle?

 

[CoopVA]

It's purely personal preference. Once in a blue moon it might be indicated by design spec by the engineering firm/architect. It is NOT required by NEC code, residential or commercial.

Tommy

Correct. It is a Project Spec requirement...

 

[green.bubbly]

Both HD and Lowes have reasonably priced, backwire outlets. Lowes for example has the Cooper, though in my upstairs I did the Leviton commercials.

$2.70 is not a bad price for a backwire receptacle and well worth it over the $1-2 el cheapo outlets.

Maybe I'm missing something but a 20 amp commercial grade receptacle at HD is $3.18. While I'm not made of money that doesn't seem too bad:

http://t.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-20...x-Power-Outlet-White-R62-CBR20-00W/202066702/

You only have to make the first outlet GFCI.

If you look at the picture I posted regarding the Wago connectors earlier in this thread you'll see a pigtail. Line comes in with each wire going into a Wago, then two wires coming out, each to a separate receptacle. If this was a middle run receptacle the load wire going on to the next receptacle would have it's wires in the Wago as well.

I've attached a pic of the back wire $3.18 HD Leviton receptacle. What I found helpful was using the Google image search for pictures of various connections. I like pictures better than descriptions.

Thanks for the links but they also need to be tamper resistant variety. I have searched but can not find any affordable commercial tamper proof receptacles but then again, I am not experienced in differences.

I would use the more expensive receptacles for the most often used outlets, every house has a few that get used all the time and others almost never.

Great suggestion. There will be plenty of outlets that will never even be used.

 

[CoopVA]

It's debatable if TRs are needed in a garage. More so if it is a detached building. Even more so if your local jurisdiction is using the 2008 NEC. I would contact your local jurisdiction and ask...

In your house... You need them...

 

[green.bubbly]

It's debatable if TRs are needed in a garage. More so if it is a detached building. Even more so if your local jurisdiction is using the 2008 NEC. I would contact your local jurisdiction and ask...

In your house... You need them...

Sorry, I forgot to mention that this was for the house and they are required in my area.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Sorry, I forgot to mention that this was for the house and they are required in my area.

You DID state it was for the house, first sentence of the first post.

Almost at the point of installing all the receptacles in my house.

Charles

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I hate TR receptacles. They add thickness to the face and only the very tip of the plug prongs engage the contacts in the receptacles. You have to push the plug in tight and the receptacles very quickly wear in that tiny contact area and soon are not gripping the plug. We have them in the break room at work, and you try to plug in a laptop or phone or tablet charger and it falls out onto the floor.

Charles

 

[green.bubbly]

You DID state it was for the house, first sentence of the first post.



Charles

Lol. Thanks, I just think I am losing my mind with age.

 

[Zeke]

Use backwire outlets, no need to pigtail anything but the ground.

Is the breakoff tab more stout than the side lug outlet? Isn't that the only real reason to not pigtail because all the downstream current draw goes thru the tabs? Personally, I've never had an issue with daisy chaining.

But using stranded in the pigtail method (if you get it good and secure) to supply the device makes for easy stuffing of the device(s) into the box.

 

[ishiboo]

Is the breakoff tab more stout than the side lug outlet? Isn't that the only real reason to not pigtail because all the downstream current draw goes thru the tabs? Personally, I've never had an issue with daisy chaining.

But using stranded in the pigtail method (if you get it good and secure) to supply the device makes for easy stuffing of the device(s) into the box.

I didn't mean that the backwire outlets were required to daisy chain. However, on the backwire outlets you can have the line and load wires on the same screw as each screw takes 2 wires, not 1, which you would think would greatly reduce the chance of that tab between them failing.

Properly installed, none of the receptacles should never "fail" feeding through… it's simply two screws and a brass plate or plates. I'd guess you have as good of a chance as the breaker screw, a wire nut or anything else failing along the line as you do that portion of the receptacle itself.

 

[rburke65]

Myself, I like the pigtails with the wire nut, twisting before you apply the nut. Go to a electrical supply house and get your spec grade receptacles....and I always use the screw terminals...old school I guess.

 

[Zeke]

ishiboo, I got it now. Yes, 2 wires under compression on the same screw sounds like the best way to go if not pigtailing.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

You know, I now have no idea what you are talking about. The receptacle side terminals absolutely feed through when downstream supply conductors are attached to them and the devices are in parallel.

By the way, I find no manufacturer stating that their non GFCI receptacles are rated for 20 amp feed through. We all seem to assume this is so, but where is the spec?

Perhaps the UL has tested this and OK's it but I consider it an open issue on the feedthrough for those that like to use the side terminals and not pigtail.

That's why a bad connection on a daisy chained device using just the screws will fail downstream outlets. A pigtail IS a daisy chain, just done in a completely electrically equivalent way to using all 4 screws. A pigtail is simply a superior substitute for using the device connection terminal feed through feature.

If all you are trying to say is that the prongs of the receptacle do not feed through then that is true but you are just being confusing right now. Maybe you are arguing that the side terminals are not part of the receptacle?

I think we're on the same page now... I was looking at your original statement that the "device" feeds the rest of the circuit as if you meant the "prongs of the receptacle" were in series with the rest of the circuit... So after a lot of typing, we were both basically saying the same thing all along...

Sorry!!


Tommy

 

[ishiboo]

You know, I now have no idea what you are talking about. The receptacle side terminals absolutely feed through when downstream supply conductors are attached to them and the devices are in parallel.

By the way, I find no manufacturer stating that their non GFCI receptacles are rated for 20 amp feed through. We all seem to assume this is so, but where is the spec?

Perhaps the UL has tested this and OK's it but I consider it an open issue on the feedthrough for those that like to use the side terminals and not pigtail.

That's why a bad connection on a daisy chained device using just the screws will fail downstream outlets. A pigtail IS a daisy chain, just done in a completely electrically equivalent way to using all 4 screws. A pigtail is simply a superior substitute for using the device connection terminal feed through feature.

If all you are trying to say is that the prongs of the receptacle do not feed through then that is true but you are just being confusing right now. Maybe you are arguing that the side terminals are not part of the receptacle?

UL requires 20a feed through, NEC requires UL listed receptacles.

 

[MrMark]

Yes, the UL has a statement on this, says it has been "investigated", but no current rating is given.

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/...n=versionless&parent_id=1073992975&sequence=1

I like the idea of putting two wires (one for feedthrough) on the double hole backwire outlets. That seems to me the only time I would forego the pigtail method and I will adopt this where I don't have to pigtail for some other reason. I think that two wires under the same backwire pressure clamp actually makes a more solid connection as the pressure clamp does not "rack" or rotate off base as it does on the Square D breakers with only one wire, for example.

Thanks for that idea.

Also, note that daisy chaining with back stabs is not tested or approved from what I gather from this UL statement. Yet, every tract type house I have seen is done by this method.

 

[CoopVA]

Myself, I like the pigtails with the wire nut, twisting before you apply the nut. Go to a electrical supply house and get your spec grade receptacles....and I always use the screw terminals...old school I guess.

Yep. Me too.

 

[rodm1]

I like to pig tail if possible if there is a problem with the reciprocal it won't effect the rest of the circuit. I like the Blue Point PWC6 the best for strippers. If I used them all the time I probably would change my mind.

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?item_ID=630546&group_ID=675136

 

[PRH44]

1. Far better off installing a quality device up front
2. Tamper resistant devices are awful. Technology and cost control may improve this over time.
3. Use a quality stripper such as Klein, Ideal etc much easier to not damage the conductor.
4. Leave conductors at least 6 inches long. Longer if possible it will be easier to fold them back in box in a scissor like manner.
5. Pigtail its your home why not do it the best way.
6. Ground up commercial, ground down residential is normal industry practice. However if you install the device as per manufactures recommendation you will be correct. Some device are marked top on the strap
7. After termination shape the conductors as stated above. Before tightening the screws Push the device all the in the box, it should seat with very little resistance. This will keep the strap from bending, cracking the device or pinching conductors.
8. Use a quality receptacle tester after completion.
9. Have a cold one, you earned it my friend.

 

[sberry]

I have some 49 cent recepts on my bench, used by several men, thousands and thousands of cycles and never a problem. I cant remember the last time I had to replace a failed recept.

 

[ishiboo]

Yes, the UL has a statement on this, says it has been "investigated", but no current rating is given.

Kind of. The test is the same for both 15A and 20A current-rated receptacles, however for some reason the temperature rise test is actually not necessary for most conventional outlets which is odd.

116.2.1 The temperature rise of the terminals of a receptacle that has a current rating of 15 or 20 A at 125 or 250 V and that is provided with wiring terminals for through connection, shall not be more that 30°C (54°F) when a current of 20 A is passed through both terminals.
Exception: A receptacle that employs the conventional form of terminal plate with two wire-binding screws or pressure-wire connectors is not required to be subjected to this test.

Also, the NEC comments on this as "allowed" in 210.21(B)(3).

 

[MrMark]

Hard to figure. Best to stick to the pigtails. It is near impossible to get a receptacle with 5 12 gauge wires attached to it pushed safely and neatly into a box anyway.


What length wires do people here like to leave sticking out the box? I usually shoot for 8 inches at rough in.

PRH, nice to see you posting.

 

[PRH44]

Six inch is the code minimum for final termination and usually works OK, 8 inches is a good length as long as you have the box depth. Somewhat longer lengths are easier to form, shorter wires will prevent proper folding.
I find a nice Z shape or scissor action if you will makes for a nice safe install

Box depth is the key component, I always Opt. for the deepest box the wall will permit. In a residential application that would typically be a 3.5" deep box.
When using NEC 314.16(A) to select boxes. Remember the device counts as two conductors. I have seen this violated a lot!

 

[PRH44]

I have some 49 cent recepts on my bench, used by several men, thousands and thousands of cycles and never a problem. I cant remember the last time I had to replace a failed recept.

Sounds like you scored a quality device for the right price.
Its a gamble.
It sure seems like we get a lot of high price junk any more.
Branding doesn't mean what it used to as companies are bought and sold more frequently these days.
Multiple brands are even made by the same manufacture.

 

[cort]

Good advice in this thread. I find that I use back wired outlets because they are so easy to install. For the one or two that I might install every now and then, the increase in price is negligible. If you are doing a whole house, then I certainly understand using the cheap-o outlets. I wouldn't back stab them--only use the side wire screws, but even the cheap-o outlets can be quite serviceable. There are literally millions of them installed yearly. And try to abide by the "one screw, one wire" rule of thumb. Hate the TR outlets, but code is code.

 

[CoopVA]

PRH44 is spot on...

 

[600SL]

I always use Pigtails on devices, not necessary, just prefered. You cannot go wrong with Klein strippers. Those automatic ones are ****.

Do pigtails get a conductor count for box fill calculations. Cant seem to find any mention of it in the code book?

 

[MrMark]

pigtails don't count.

 

[48windsor]

X2 on the Klein strippers. I've just done my garage and laundry room and they are a breeze to use. I also shared your concern regarding pigtails and the extra wire nuts, but I did it anyway and cursed the whole time. It wasn't until I was almost done that I came across these Wago connectors. They come in the Halo recessed lights and are a dream to use. I ordered them on Amazon and have used them in a few areas. Soooo much easier than wire nuts and take up less space.

You'll get lots of opinions on them, both for and against, but the bottom line is they are UL approved and standard in mass used devices like the Halo cans. The pic below is the end of a run and you can see the Wago connectors. You can search "Wago" in this forum and read more about them.

I really appreciate the pic . Now if I understand this correctly. If this were a mid run than the only diff would be a white ,black wire going to their respctive conn on pigtail and on down the line. I just learned of those new connectors they are the cats meow.

 

[HoosierMark]

I saw in Popular Mechanics or a similar magazine a neat screw driver. If I remember right it had an interchangeable phillips or flat on one end and the other end was designed to slide overwire nuts and twist them tight. Has anyone tried them out? I need to go back to the library and find out the brand name.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Now whats the reason for "grounds on top (that is actually the proper way to install them..."? What's proper about that orientation?

It was explained to me recently that the cord end is less likely to lose contact with the hot and neutral with this orientation as the cord droops. Also it seems to me that the ground is longer and also helps hold the cord end in the receptacle.

Richard

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

If you drop something on the plug and pull it out of the socket you will be less likely to make contact the hot blade... It's a safety requirement in industrial/commercial settings...

While living in New York City between 2002 and 2005 I was riding the subway with a young guy who was studying to be an electrician in the city. He had a basic electrician's text box with him. I asked about the ground up, and he said that is code in New Your City and explained (as have others) why the ground should be on top. Made sense to me.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

I would like to do the back wired receptacles but so far it seems that this option is only available on commercial receptacles such as the Leviton 5252. Also seem to be about 8 times the cost of a Leviton residential unit. So I am going with pigtails and side wired and a nice Klein strippers.

I went through the same thought process. Buy one of each. Then compare them. Take them apart. (There is a comparison on the Internet somewhere.) I can't remember what you are going to wire ... house, garage, shop, etc. The residential outlet is fine for lamps and computers and stuff that doesn't have the plug inserted and removed all the time like would likely happen in a shop.

I'm going with the back wired receptacles from now on.

 

[MixManSC]

I saw in Popular Mechanics or a similar magazine a neat screw driver. If I remember right it had an interchangeable phillips or flat on one end and the other end was designed to slide overwire nuts and twist them tight. Has anyone tried them out? I need to go back to the library and find out the brand name.

I have this one.... Ideal branded from Lowes. The end of the handle is open specifically for tightening wire nuts down. It is a multi-bit with 8 bit sizes including a couple of square and torx sizes. Lowes recently had them on clearance for about six bucks so I grabbed a second one. Works great, except for the specific wire nut shown. I forgot about this type wire nut - it is sort of an inline nut specifically made for grounds, the back end of the nut is open so you can stick the wire through the end and attach the end to an outlet or switch without needing a 3rd short piece for the pigtail. Handy.

 

[mobiledynamics]

PRH -

U know , I've always wondered why group up in commericial.
I recall starting a thread about this but can't recall what the consensus was why.

 

[green.bubbly]

Oh man, those Klein strippers are the bomb. Gotta say that I love those Wagon lever locks and the stranded pigtails with the terminals already crimped on. So must faster and easier.


Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

[OccupantRJ]

I personally will not use a back stab receptacle. I have flipped a few 80's era houses in the past, and one of the things I do is replace all the receptacles in the house. There are a very high percentage of times when I have been removing these receptacles in a normal manner, and one or more wires will come out of the receptacle during removal. A lot of these receptacles had also got to the point where a cord plugged into them would fall out of it's own weight. I feel poor connections caused the gripper plates to heat, anneal and relax their grip. To hell with THAT! I have gone to using only back fed clamp plate style receptacles. I trust the connection, and hate trying to get the loop type over the screws. Test a few different styles of receptacles and see how they grip the plug differently. I use a lot of motor contactors and such at work, and have seen how well their clamp type connections have held up over the last 25 years, even with all the machine vibrations. I have seen the loop attachment have solid wiring break right at the screw on some of our older machines that used solid wire. I feel that comes from work hardening of the copper when the loop is formed, then vibration causes the wire to crack there. Not an issue in a home, but an observation I have made.

 

[600SL]

I personally will not use a back stab receptacle. I have flipped a few 80's era houses in the past, and one of the things I do is replace all the receptacles in the house. There are a very high percentage of times when I have been removing these receptacles in a normal manner, and one or more wires will come out of the receptacle during removal. A lot of these receptacles had also got to the point where a cord plugged into them would fall out of it's own weight. I feel poor connections caused the gripper plates to heat, anneal and relax their grip. To hell with THAT! I have gone to using only back fed clamp plate style receptacles. I trust the connection, and hate trying to get the loop type over the screws. Test a few different styles of receptacles and see how they grip the plug differently. I use a lot of motor contactors and such at work, and have seen how well their clamp type connections have held up over the last 25 years, even with all the machine vibrations. I have seen the loop attachment have solid wiring break right at the screw on some of our older machines that used solid wire. I feel that comes from work hardening of the copper when the loop is formed, then vibration causes the wire to crack there. Not an issue in a home, but an observation I have made.

I bought new commercial grade receptacles and they have a screw down back stab which I really like. The old spring load $0.59 residential grade stuff not only do I not like the back stab but the whole thing *****.

John