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Prehung exterior door issue

Madrona

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I am trying to install a prehung exterior door in my outbuilding, but when it sits level on the floor, it binds on the jamb side, and you can clearly see a larger gap in the top reveal on that side. Makes absolutely ZERO sense. If I shim up the hinge side, which is obviously the way to address that gap in the reveal, the door will open and close easily, but then the door is actually NOT level, sitting crooked in the rough opening. I can set my level on the top at this point, and it is outside the bubble, but the door is operating perfectly.

I tried two other levels and they read the same. It is weird. The floor is perfectly level but apparently this door does not want to be level. No, I am not drinking or under the influence of anything. :eyecrazy: I had to walk away because the inclination is to throw the $500 door on the burn pile. It has a solid metal bottom piece, so there is no way that one leg is longer. The adjustable threshold is also at the minimum setting. I made sure that it wasn't out of adjustment. Any suggestions here?
 
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RivennHewn

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While the doors are usually fairly square, the frames are quite frequently not.

Measure the legs on both sides, and the top/bottom for equal.

I've had to make adjustments to jambs.

Also, plumb and level are great, but it is more important to function correctly.

Even if it is slightly out of plumb.

You can also shim the hinges if the **** plates are set too deep, to get the correct gap.
 

kbs2244

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Put a level across the floor at the door opening.
I am expecting an out of level floor.
Now you have to decide if you want a level door or a door the fits the building.
 
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Madrona

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I am at my wits end with this thing. It is bizarre. I'm not going to install a door crooked. There is a window right next to it. When I set the level on the floor, exactly where the door sits, it is PERFECTLY LEVEL. When I set the door in there, it binds so bad you cannot open and close it, and there's a gap at the top on the jamb side like the floor is low there, but it's NOT. I have had the door in and out 5 times now. This isn't my first door install.
 

dfiler2

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Did you take inside measurements of both jambs, the header and the threshold? I'm guessing if everything else is good there must be a problem with the frame.
 

CTyankee

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If the door is sitting level....and the hinge side is plumb and square to the threshold...and the side jambs are the same length...there isn't much else to it. You aren't trying to square it to the inside the RO are you?
 

cubfarm 1

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Can yo cross-corner measure the framing hole to insure that the upright studs are plumb. The framing sounds out of spec. Am betting that the door is square and the jamb can be a bit out and still work for you. Earlier post of just fitting the door to the hole may be all you can do. If the hole is out of plumb and square you can either fix the hole or put away the level and hang the door by using the jamb reveal to guide you. by shimming UNDER THE JAMB LEG carefully you can make up for an improper hole. It will look fine if it is not too far out of alignment with the lines of the building. It can be very hard to NOT use a level for a door install but it is hard for me to discribe too! Wish I were there. We would be done. If the door has a threshold you may need to grout under it so that it is firm to step on.
 
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Madrona

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The rough opening is a little out of square, but not to where the door is rubbing on any side. That's what's so weird. I could understand if, when I went to set it in there, it needed to be forced in, but that's not the case. I can't find my plumb bob, so I am going to buy another on tomorrow. It's just bugging me. I mean, I'm not going to install a door where I have 12 1/2" between the brick moulding and 4' window next to it at the top, and 12" at the bottom. Looks stupid. When the door is sitting in the rough opening, there is less of a gap at the top right stud than top left stud. I suppose I could make it perfectly square, but I'm not sure what that's going to buy me.
 

PugetDude

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If the door is square, the jamb is square, the hinges are the same depth and the floor is level, it HAS to fit. Something's off. I'd double check the height of the jamb legs to make sure they are the same. Then do the same on the width of the sill and jamb header. Then pull diagonals on the door, jamb, and, (just for reference)the RO to ensure everything's square.

If the math doesn't show something obvious, the only explanation is that you're living over a preternatural gravitational anomaly...:headscrat

Looking forward to pics tomorrow.
 

YukonXL04

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Sounds like the top sides of the frame need to be shimmed to one side or the other...

I just went through this on my house. The inside wall is perfectly level, the outside brick is perfectly level, and the top and bottom jambs are level. But I had to shim the top right corner almost a 1/2 inch to get the doors to open and close right. But they were french doors so had to get the doors to have a even reveal all around. Gonna look like **** from the outside but not a whole lot I can do about it.
 

dfiler2

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Have you checked the measurements I mentioned earlier? If everything you say is true then the header one of the jambs or the threshold has to be off.
 
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TommyK

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Put the pre-hung door on a bench and temp brace it so that the margins top and strike side are correct. Take diagonal measurements and see if the door was made square. IF your threshold is truly level the door being out of square can be the only explanation.
 

Kaizen

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some doors come with a leveling mechanism in the threshold. make sure its not engaged.
if the floor is flat then plumb up the hinge side and make the other side fit the door. use trim to fill the eye on the outside if you're worried about it.
 

David C

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Whenever something like this happens to me I check and recheck measurements and square corners. I have miss-measured more than once.

Either we all here do not understand the situation or one of your measurements etc are off. Or, as stated above, the ubiquitous warp in the space time continuum that occurs around western WA, and sometimes my house.

I appologize in advance for bring this up again but did you completely understand the comments about hinge mortice depths. If one of your hinges is set deeper into the door and jamb, than the other, the door will not be parallel to the jamb. Again sorry if you already checked this.

I think the request for photos is a good one; this will help with understanding your written references.
 

Nor'Easter

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Where are you getting "the door is not level" from? The threshold? Is it adjustable?


We always plumb doors as the threshold is adjustable. Can't speak to your door without photos.
 

pattenp

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You always install plumbing the hinge side jamb first and then shim around the rest of the door frame to get the gap even as possible. The threshold may need some shimming under it as it may not end up being flat on the floor. Don't worry if the floor is level or not perfectly level. The main thing is to get the hing side jamb plumb and straight. You may find that you need to put a shim on the floor under the hinge side jamb to raise it up a bit off the floor to get the gaps corrects.
 

Kevin54

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First off, forget the level and get a framing square and check things first. Then measure corner to corner both ways in an "X" pattern. The chances your door is out of square out of all of the doors made the same day, before that day, and after that day is slim. And a rough opening is just that.....a "rough" opening.

One thing you did wrong on a prehung door was to take things apart to see if it opens and closes, because you have now racked the frame. The stops are put in there from the factory for a reason, and that is to keep is square while being shimmed and temporarily fastened. And even if the door is slightly out, you can cheat things a tad with your trim.

Your rough opening has to be a certain size all of the way around. THis allows for clearance of the door to mount it square in the opening, even if the opening isn't square, hence again..."rough opening". You may have a 3/4" gap at the top, and may be sitting tight at the bottom on the same side, and have a gap on one side of the threshold.

You need to find the clips and such that held the door square from the factory, put everything back together so the door is setting solid to the frame with equal spacing, and start back at square one. Don't worry if it doesn't set square in the rough opening, that's what shims and trim is to fix. Right now your trying to fit a racked door frame in what is most likely a racked rough opening.

And get your level checked. If you don't know how to do it, there are videos of it. Lay it on a flat surface, then roll it over to the other surface, if the bubble moves from once side of the vial to the other in the least little bit, your level is out. Hang the level off of a long nail, then flip the level 180 degrees and check your bubbles. Off just a red one, will equal to a large gap from top to bottom of a doorway. If the weather is calm, hang a plumb bob down in the doorway as you won't get anymore plumb than that.

Being a machinist all of my life, one of my largest struggles is working with wood. Most people know what 45 degrees is, or 30, or 60 degrees as that is the most common used on tools when it comes to construction. A lot of tools like your power says have a wide line, to line up another wide line, but may come in 5 degree increments. One degree = .017/inch. Move that 1 degree up 12" and now you have a gap of a little over 3/16". move up another foot, and you now have almost a 7/16" gap. Now one degree doesn't seem like much until you have your two little lines on your saw just a red one off, or that board has just the slightest of twist to it, that most wouldn't see. Carpenters, and especially rough framers work off of a tape measure to lines, then cut the wide pencil lines with a 1/8" wide blade. If you are on one side or the other of the line just a little, if your saw has just a tad bit of kilter to it, if one side of the teeth on the saw is duller then the other side to where the saw doesn't track right, you know have what machinist call a "stackup problem". Or in other terms.....the sumbitch don't fit!!!!!

Doors are made in jigs from the factory, and are fastened in a way that you do not remove the clips and corner boards until you have it securely fastened into your rough opening. You pulled your clips and corner braces, and are now complaining that nothing fits correctly. Get out the sawhorses, square the door up in the frame, put the security clips back in and your corner braces, double check your window while you are at it, send us some pics, and we will fix it for you over the internet.

BTW......not trying to bust your balls, but trying to help you out. Welcome to Garage Journal, and lets see some of the pics of the build and what's going on. We'll get you bailed out of the bind.
 

Regnar

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461
I will also add that you have what I call a problem door. Removing and ReInstalling over and over again is not going to help matters. This is when I go to GRK Door Shimming Screws.

My HD use to carry them but now have to order them online. Not cheap but if time is money you know how cheap these are now.

Although I dont think the jam actually needs wood shims when I am done I do go back and glue some in. And for anyone else these are great for Wooden exterior doors and season changes. You are able to adjust that "Sticky" door in the summer by putting removable caps on top of the screws.

Sorry HD has decided to discontinue them even on their website. He is a link to Amazon and they are cheaper to boot.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001SFU3JE/?tag=atomicindus08-20
 
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homebuilt burner

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I installed a new front door on our house and had a similar problem. I found out that the door froame meaning the rough opening of the wall while square and level was out of plumb from top to bottom only on one side. Meaning the wall itself was twisted (old house thing). Not saying that is your problem, but It took a long time to track down. A plumb bob will help but wind can be an issue. The door worked great until I put the jamb side screws in tight to set the gap.

Maybe, leaving it overnight and letting your sanity return will help also. Been there sometimes it is best to walk away and start over the next day. Good luck it sounds like You have the abilities to get it figures out.
 

egdede

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Make sure you have a long screw in the top hinge that is secured through the framing.

I have had pre hung door frames flex from the weight of heavy doors. This flex manifests as a larger gap at the top hinge. This will throw every thing else off and can be hard to pinpoint.
 

dfiler2

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I installed a new front door on our house and had a similar problem. I found out that the door froame meaning the rough opening of the wall while square and level was out of plumb from top to bottom only on one side. Meaning the wall itself was twisted (old house thing). Not saying that is your problem, but It took a long time to track down. A plumb bob will help but wind can be an issue. The door worked great until I put the jamb side screws in tight to set the gap.

Maybe, leaving it overnight and letting your sanity return will help also. Been there sometimes it is best to walk away and start over the next day. Good luck it sounds like You have the abilities to get it figures out.

So what you're saying is the opening was not square.
 
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Madrona

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Thanks for all the comments, and I'm sorry I never checked back in. I wish I would get e-mail reminders when someone posts to this thread. Will need to look at my settings.

I had to abandon the door and building for a while to handle other things. I feel there's something weird with the door itself, but I also found that the entire building settled over the rainy winter. I was off 1/2" in one corner, and almost 3/4" in another corner while the center of the building seemed not to sink, and then the other corners dropped maybe 1/8" to 1/4", so the floor is slightly crowned which will affect the door. This is built on 6x6 treated skids. I jacked it up and shimmed it to level it, but I am pondering if I should pour some small footers and then set a pier block on them, or just hope it doesn't sink anymore. The back corners are already sitting on concrete blocks which, in hindsight, seems like it was a bad idea.
 
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