Preliminary discussion on a GALLERY INDEX - Need your input!

[Red Leader]

There is all ready an excellent search engine on this forum. Works very well if you use the options to narrow down your search. Works even better if the poster adds tags to their thread. Due to the size of this forum, and the fact that it is constantly changing, it seems to us that it would be almost an impossible task to do as you suggest without changing the internal software.

Dude, are you nuts?...oh yeah. If there's anything I can do...

Haha, yep, remember who we're talking about here


By the way, NASMAN...you're build is incredible. Keep at it!



Shopnut, once the rubber hits the road, feel free to delegate so it doesn't drive you too crazy.

Then again...maybe that was your secret goal in the first place

 

[shopnut]

NASMAN - The search engine works pretty well if you have specific keywords to search on and people actually included them in their thread. Maybe the simple solution to all this is instructing everyone to add tags or keywords into their threads per a given list. Sorry - I didn’t understand what you meant by “changing the internal software”

Softailgarage/Red Leader - Yep, crazy fool, but I've been called worse. Thanks for the offers. I’m still thinking about how the work could be split cleanly between a few members - maybe each one takes a different size range I was planning to do all the work out in a separate MS-Word document.

 

[shopnut]

Index Entries per Reply - Reserving Replies for the Index

With all the coding for the links in the background, along with keywords and whatnot, it looks like 35-40 garages can be listed per Reply post. Looking back until the dawn of time (GJ time that is), I see 220 pages of threads with 20 threads each. That’s 4,400 threads! Of course, I was never planning to include everything back to day one - many probably aren’t even build threads. But it’s a good point of reference for determining the number of Replies to initially reserve. Reserving 30 should offer room for over 1000 index entries.

If this works out well and more are needed someday, a second bunch could be reserved and easily linked from the first set.

Is 1000 too many or not enough to start with?

 

[NASMAN]

If you are just thinking of making a list of links that will redirect the viewer to the thread that he desires than I can see why you didn't understand what I meant.
However if the person seeking to find a posting by description, than I assumed you would need to be able to run a query to find the answer. This would mean you would have to be able to set up a data base and search it. Thus a change in the way the forum works.
Either way, good luck.

 

[machine_punk]

I think this is a FABULOUS idea...but I think it will end up being WAY more than one person can handle (not to mention the folks who are going to 'comment' in a thread which is meant only to 'post' your information. There are a LOT of garages on this forum...something like 18K active members.

That said, I look forward to seeing what you come up with...and I'm already working on the description of my garage.

M_P

 

[Red Leader]

Shopnut...


Maybe you can just create an index framework for people to adhere to, then just ask them to send you their entries.

It would, at the very least, weed out the people too lazy to respond to you




J/K


There are some great garages on here. Is the goal to be able to quickly find some really great ones or every single one? I think at some point you'd have to cut it loose because new garages are being posted in here daily, not to mention that the entire garage gallery becomes a huge index for every single thread, sortable by views, replies, rating, etc.

Would it be helpful to put some extremely basic guidelines around it, say like 'your garage thread has to have at least 50 posts' or something like that to weed out the threads that aren't too tied into an working build/remodel? And please know this is just an idea to cut down on the work, not offend anyone in the least. When I just checked, there are about 26 pages of garages that have 50 or more posts. That cuts it down quite a bit (520 garages). And if someone really wanted on the index, I'm sure it wouldn't be to hard to get to 50. They could just...

post : okay here is what I did...

post: then I did this

post: next step was this

post: and then this


and so on and so forth

 

[Nuts]

If the Gallery Index is a closed thread, then having enough reserved post is a moot point.

If someone wants to nominate a thread they can PM it to one of the managers.

I see this thread as being about information, not discussion.

It would be nice to see a poll on the first post with voting on the top 10,
which of course because of all the new threads being added and polls
being limited to just a few choices, would also entail votes being pm'd
and managers having to manually update the poll. Unless there's
another way the software can be manipulated.

I know causing you guys more work, not less.

Nuts

 

[luvit]

I recommend a web form for automating this content. Each garage owner can enter in all the data fields.. Then they will be in a spreadsheet column form which can be sorted...

Also, members who are MIA, can still be added to the DB the same way by ANY GJ member. -- Whoever inputs data, can also update/correct data.

This will allow anyone to add, content, and allow viewers to sort the data based on their field of their interest.

I'm talking about using free form tools and automation, less dependency on a thread owner.

 

[Omphaloskeptic]

Shopnut, sorry about that S.N. reference; but if you pull off this index idea, the moniker will be apropos! lol What, pray tell, does Mrs. Shopnut think of this don quixote mission of yours? We wouldn't want this endeavor to cause her to contact WAMBAM's headquarters; would we?

I think luvit's proposal could be the solution to all future INDEX'ed entries; maybe the owners of current threads could be encouraged to update their entries after the fact somehow, or it could be made open to a 'community effort' much as Wikipedia is.

P.S. - "Where do Sergey Brin and Larry Page live?" I could not locate any particulars, but you can be sure it's a very exclusive Asylum!

 

[shopnut]

NASMAN - My initial thoughts were keep it simple and go with what I have used on this forum before (links), but it appears you may have sparked an idea in luvit’s head.

machine_punk - The first post in the index thread would instruct members to post comments directly in the specific build thread of which they are interested. I would start another thread to post comments about the index in general (or just direct them to add on to this discussion thread). People don’t always follow the rules, however.

Red Leader - My intention is to get everyone in the index that wants to be there. Their reply in the index thread with keyword text line (and optional summary/photos) will be my indication to grab the link to their build along with the keyword string and make a 2-line entry in the main list at the top of the thread. I think making a requirement of a minimum number of replies could possibly lead to a lot of meaningless ones being made

Nuts - The original intent was having the members submit a reply in the index thread signifying that they would like their build in the main list. They would essentially do the work for me and I simply would copy/paste it in the listing. Yes, it would be totally about information. I still don’t know how some kind of poll thing could work.

luvit - Way to think outside the GJ box! Although spreadsheets are a way of life at work, I have never set one up via a web form. It appears it could have all the things we need (and then some), except maybe a photo summary of each build. And I like the idea of not having to do the work if there is an easier way, that’s for sure.

Some questions now that you brought it up:
- Can typical (or predefined) choices to the various form entries be given for the members pick from? This might give us better consistency in the data making sorts more productive.
- Can anyone on the web get to this spreadsheet, even non-GJ members?
- This may not even be possible, but how badly can someone mess it up if they get into trouble? I’m very familiar with how spreadsheets work but perhaps there are some that may never have worked in one before. The instructions we give will have to be detailed enough to help the newbees.
- Can someone go in and mess with someone else’s entry? Can they only go back to edit their own entries?
- Is there a chance the host could just decide to pull the plug on the spreadsheet thing and leave us high and dry? It would probably be smart to download this to a safe place occasionally.
- What would be the initial sort - order in which they are entered?

Omphaloskeptic - I haven’t even told the Mrs. - I'm not going to bore her with all the details of my internet life (and maybe it’s safer that way!) I’m guessing whatever I told her would just reinforce her opinion of me being the crazy fool that I am. Yes, I’m all for a community effort too.

 

[luvit]

Some questions now that you brought it up:
1. Can typical (or predefined) choices to the various form entries be given for the members pick from? This might give us better consistency in the data making sorts more productive.
2. Can anyone on the web get to this spreadsheet, even non-GJ members?
3. This may not even be possible, but how badly can someone mess it up if they get into trouble? I’m very familiar with how spreadsheets work but perhaps there are some that may never have worked in one before. The instructions we give will have to be detailed enough to help the newbees.
4. Can someone go in and mess with someone else’s entry? Can they only go back to edit their own entries?
5. Is there a chance the host could just decide to pull the plug on the spreadsheet thing and leave us high and dry? It would probably be smart to download this to a safe place occasionally.
6. What would be the initial sort - order in which they are entered?

Omphaloskeptic - I haven’t even told the Mrs. - I'm not going to bore her with all the details of my internet life (and maybe it’s safer that way!) I’m guessing whatever I told her would just reinforce her opinion of me being the crazy fool that I am. Yes, I’m all for a community effort too.

....
1.Yes, you can offer Pick Lists which enforce consistency in the form submission.
2.Anyone with the link can add a Submission. The link would only be provided from a Sticky in the Garage Gallery Forum.
3.You can only edit the entries you have submitted. If there are dupe entries, no problem. only one entry is visible.
4.It will be a lot of work to "mess it up". The form has a lot of REQUIRED fields. It would be very time consuming to enter a bunch of bogus data. Cleanup is simple. Backups are automatic, you can revert back to recent date/times. This data can also be exported into common formats so it can be imported into other Indexing Solutions.
5.This is hosted by Goolge. It's going nowhere without months & months worth of notices.. occasional exporting also protects the data.
6.Data can be filtered or sorted (or both).

The present Form and Spreadsheet is easy to update.
The information you're looking at now can easily be updated with additional specs you may wish to create later.

What I don't like about static images is that this will too much screen real estate, so it would be ideal to create a mouse-over popup picture.
I'll also look into imaging solutions, but reality is, the data may actually provide enough information, initially until a good image solution is available.

Recent Update:
THIS DATA was generated by THIS FORM
.

 

[shopnut]

This is all sounding great luvit. I'll refer you back to Reply#20 for additional columns to be added to the spreadsheet. It looks like items <2>, <3>, <4>, and <6> need to be added if you have a little extra time.

We might also want several columns for the "Function" or "Use" of the place (item 9) as I think it will be hard for many to choose just one. Maybe column headings of "Use 1", "Use 2", etc.

 

[shopnut]

Excellent luvit!

I found a few little odds and ends for you to think about when you have a minute:
1. "Contributor" doesn't really need to be a required field (and probably could be spelled properly )
2. Image column can't really be seen, but it's nice having a link handy, nevertheless. I know you are considering popups there, so no big deal right now.
3. In the New/Redo column, the "New Construction" could be shortened to "New" to save column width.
4. I did the title the way you showed for Jack's, putting "The" secondary. Looks a little strange for mine but its okay.

It gave me a link to edit it when I got the "Thank you for submitting" note. Not sure how I would do that later on.

I think it is nearly there! I'll give it another closer look when I have a chance.

Other members, please take a look too and give your feedback please.

 

[ConCretin]

Damn Luvit, I can barely post a photo and you're coming up with online forms. With your technical skill and shopnut's concept, organizational skills and energy, I think we have a winner here.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Wow, I knew you were talking about doing this but I have missed this thread.

 

[shopnut]

Oh yeah, I also cheated on the one-word "Style" entry for mine. I guess "Barn" would suffice, but there may be others scanning down the list for specific types.

Maybe allow two words for a little latitude because theme and style are being combined?

 

[shopnut]

And the pie charts/graphs that can be displayed from the spreadsheet are rather interesting too!

 

[shopnut]

One more - what was the purpose of "Unknown" under the Attached/Detached choice?

Maybe "Other" would be a catch-all for garage condos or something unique like that.

 

[machine_punk]

+1 for "having more than one word for a description of style." Maybe "5 words or less." EEEK...wouldn't know where to start with the description of mine...although I do have a distinctive name.

For redo/new, how about "existing" and "new." Mine isn't new, but it isn't necessarily a remodel, either.

Great job on the planning! I'm looking forward to seeing this thread get off the ground.

M_P

 

[luvit]

+1 for "having more than one word for a description of style." Maybe "5 words or less." EEEK...wouldn't know where to start with the description of mine...although I do have a distinctive name.

i used your garage when submitting test data.
i simply use the single word: Steampunk
.

 

[luvit]

I got all the ideas and corrections done.
A few things:
a) The images are clickable to view each image. The Links on the Far Right are usable until I script the Links & Thumbnails on the left.
b) Yes, style/theme is combined. i can possibly separate these in the future.
c) Those built-in charts are ok, but we can get cooler ones soon.. did you see the MAP tab?
d) I do plan on adding links for those see/edit links you saw earlier @ form completion.
d) I will script the sorting last.. Sorting won't be helpful until the database is large.
e) the purpose for "unknown" is when we contribute for MIA members.

The core is complete, so all data that gets entered now will be permanent data.

 

[shopnut]

+1 for "having more than one word for a description of style." Maybe "5 words or less."

i used your garage when submitting test data.
i simply use the single word: Steampunk
.

luvit / M_P - I recommend we don't go any longer than two or three words for a combined Style/Theme column. I touched on it briefly at the beginning of Reply#24, but I think many will not have much to enter in this column so there's no need to waste so much width. Spreadsheets that get too wide become cumbersome to use, in my opinion. M_P - just choose your words wisely.

We also need to consider limiting the character count on some of the columns, if that is possible. For instance, I can see people entering a 10 line "sentence" that goes on forever while trying to describe their place. Again, people need to be a little crafty to keep this spreadsheet as concise as possible.

EDIT: Maybe 20-30 characters for Style/Theme and 100-150 for their sentence? (I'll have to give the number some thought)

 

[shopnut]

For redo/new, how about "existing" and "new." Mine isn't new, but it isn't necessarily a remodel, either.

luvit - I agree with this one, but missed it the first time through the form (probably because I was entering "New"). If you look at <2> back in Reply#20, I show New and Exist, and this seems to better cover everyone's situation. Certainly, spelling out Existing will be fine in our spreadsheet format - I was really trying to condense it in the old format of GJ posts.

 

[luvit]

I changed the Description to recommend 1-3 words.
From the Form, there is not a way to enforce a character limit, yet.
The reason "In a a sentence" is near the very end, is because it would be one of the least interests. -- The column widths are fixed. Which is good, compared to a column that rolls-off the screen. If someone gets carried away at the keyboard, it will not show all their words.
.

 

[shopnut]

I got all the ideas and corrections done.
A few things:
a) The images are clickable to view each image. The Links on the Far Right are usable until I script the Links & Thumbnails on the left.
b) Yes, style/theme is combined. i can possibly separate these in the future.
c) Those built-in charts are ok, but we can get cooler ones soon.. did you see the MAP tab?
d) I do plan on adding links for those see/edit links you saw earlier @ form completion.
d) I will script the sorting last.. Sorting won't be helpful until the database is large.
e) the purpose for "unknown" is when we contribute for MIA members.

The core is complete, so all data that gets entered now will be permanent data.

Thanks for the quick response. This is really coming along nicely.

Regarding your comments:
c) I saw the MAP last night (can't see it at work now) and it looked pretty cool. I'm assuming it will zoom out accordingly for all of our worldwide members.
d) quick links on the listing for editing is a good idea
e) Still confused about the "Unknown". It seems anyone submitting a build on behalf of someone else would know whether it is attached to a house or not. You can leave it there, but I don't foresee anyone ever selecting it.

A few more things now that I'm looking at it in detail:
5. Should the Timestamp column be moved out of the "frozen" columns on the left? It's necessary data to have, but probably irrelevant to most people viewing the spreadsheet. This would allow more columns to be seen on the screen in the scrollable right side pane.

6. I'm going to take back what I said about making the "Contributor" column optional. After giving it some thought, I think it will be important for the administrators to see who actually submitted it. Its possible an MIA thread could be submitted by a non-owner only to have the owner log in later after their absence and submit a duplicate themselves. All others besides the entry made by the true owner could be deleted. I would also suggest you change this column heading to "Submitted By" for clarity. Regardless, we should state something in the GJ thread to check to make sure the thread wasn't already there before submitting a new one.

7. Does the thread name have to be repeated in column E? The link in column A already shows it. The answer might be "no" as I see column E is being used by the formula in column A. Maybe it can be a "hidden" column?

 

[luvit]

.
TimeStamp and Repeated Thread Name are a work in progress towards scripting the sort. They will not be visible in the Sort results, as you're describing.
This first page is the Actual Data Set which I may get to hide those columns once everything works.
I'm going to re-enforce the requirement of the Contributor Field.

Our thoughts are pretty identical, the ideas come faster than I can work ..
lol
Some of that quality was pretty much a draft for the first day.
.

 

[luvit]

.
mm k, dude.. It's done for now. Unless you find something a little akward.

I'll have to complete the Sort solution as the database grows.
I may never get to offer the edit button for users.
Each entry is assigned a unique key.. if that link "Edit your response" is not bookmarked, then the submission can only be duplicated via another form, and the older submission(s) will eventually be removed.

Links

• Form
• Data

.

 

[Red Leader]

You guys are totally rocking this out. Great job!

 

[shopnut]

Our thoughts are pretty identical, the ideas come faster than I can work ..
lol

Yes, it seems you have read my mind, judging by the way the spreadsheet turned out. It actually appears you kept up with everything quite nicely. I wasn't trying to rush you at all, just getting the ideas down on "paper" before this aging mind forgot them!

.
I may never get to offer the edit button for users.
Each entry is assigned a unique key.. if that link "Edit your response" is not bookmarked, then the submission can only be duplicated via another form, and the older submission(s) will eventually be removed.
.

I will plan to tell members to bookmark that Edit link after submitting their form so they can correct their own mistakes. I almost did it when I entered mine, but now it gone for good . Lucky I know (or will become) someone on the "inside" to fix something later.

You guys are totally rocking this out. Great job!

Thanks RL. My hats off to luvit, who really grabbed the idea and ran with it. I think the form/data route was a great way to go. And it's going to save me a ton of work over the initial plan I had, even if I become one the folks to maintain the Google data in the future.

 

[shopnut]

FIRST POST OF THE MASTER INDEX THREAD

Here is an outline of what I believe should be included in the beginning of the final GALLERY INDEX thread.

Links to Index Data and Input Form (with proper credit to luvit, of course)
- Warning against duplicating entries (search first before entering).
- Instructions to bookmark EDIT link if you make a mistake on the form
- Link to the Build Thread Entry Form
- Link to Index Data (spreadsheet)
- Note that Data will be sortable in the future.
- More instructions in second post (see my note to luvit below)

Other Related Links:
- Link this preliminary discussion thread so members can read why things turned out as they did.
- Additional links provided to the other massive threads out there already like:
. . Motorcycle Garages Only
. . Let's See some 2 Car garages
. . Garages at Night Thread

Popular threads:
- Instructions will be given for sorting the Gallery thread list on Views, Replies, Ratings, etc. These sorts basically display up-to-date lists of the historically most popular threads over the years.

Searches:
- Instructions on using GJ search engine
- Instructions to use Google site search

Anything else?


luvit - I think you should grab the second post after the thread is started so you can give any detailed instructions/information about using the form or data sheets. This will also be a good spot to list any recent updates that you made.

.

 

[machine_punk]

That looks great, SHOPNUT...I agree with getting LUVIT to grab an early post to reserve a spot for his information.

Could I suggest that in the 'Links to Data and Input form' section, that you divide that into "data entry" and "data retrieval" sections...just to make it absolutely clear to the masses what they are about to do? (Unless I just misunderstood that and all of it is data entry).

Thanks to both of you for taking on this project! I'm looking forward to seeing this in action.
M_P

 

[luvit]

FIRST POST OF THE MASTER INDEX THREAD

Here is an outline of what I believe should be included in the beginning of the final GALLERY INDEX thread.

Links to Index Data and Input Form (with proper credit to luvit, of course)
- Warning against duplicating entries (search first before entering).
- Instructions to bookmark EDIT link if you make a mistake on the form
- Link to the Build Thread Entry Form
- Link to Index Data (spreadsheet)
- Note that Data will be sortable in the future.
- More instructions in second post (see my note to luvit below)

Other Related Links:
- Link this preliminary discussion thread so members can read why things turned out as they did.
- Additional links provided to the other massive threads out there already like:
. . Motorcycle Garages Only
. . Let's See some 2 Car garages
. . Garages at Night Thread

Popular threads:
- Instructions will be given for sorting the Gallery thread list on Views, Replies, Ratings, etc. These sorts basically display up-to-date lists of the historically most popular threads over the years.

Searches:
- Instructions on using GJ search engine
- Instructions to use Google site search

Anything else?


luvit - I think you should grab the second post after the thread is started so you can give any detailed instructions/information about using the form or data sheets. This will also be a good spot to list any recent updates that you made.

.

Per your post, I would keep the intro OP short and focused on the Indexing Tool.

Items in red would either make the tool sound complicated or distract from the intention of the OP. I would not include items in red.
Duplicate entries are no problem, I have a checksum to flag dupes. Owner Submissions will be the winner.. if dupes are two MIA posts, then it's judged on accuracy.. i'd like to promote contributions even if there are occasional dupes.

Item in blue: I would request this thread to be closed.. you've seen the type of posts in contest threads long after the contest is finished?

I suggest items in green can be in post #3, this is valuable info, but i would make it below the OP (post 3).
Like you said, we will carefully coordinate the first 3 posts, together.. so we'll have to ping each other once you feel you have your post 1 & 3 ready.

I really like OPs clear and concise for the *KAPOW* factor..
.

 

[shopnut]

That looks great, SHOPNUT...I agree with getting LUVIT to grab an early post to reserve a spot for his information.

Could I suggest that in the 'Links to Data and Input form' section, that you divide that into "data entry" and "data retrieval" sections...just to make it absolutely clear to the masses what they are about to do? (Unless I just misunderstood that and all of it is data entry).

Thanks to both of you for taking on this project! I'm looking forward to seeing this in action.
M_P

Thanks M_P.

The two links could probably be labeled something like:
View the Gallery Index
Submit an entry to the Index

Would that make it clear?

 

[shopnut]

luvit - It sounds like that spreadsheet is getting pretty "smart". Dups should be no big deal then. Nice.

I agree with your suggestions above and will make it the plan. We can get some PM action going when its time to launch this.

Closing this prelim thread is a good idea. Do we allow people to ask questions or offer suggestions as replies in the new main Index thread? Or should we ask for that one to get closed too?

I'll redo and show what #1 and #3 posts will look like soon.

All members - please chime in if you disagree with anything we are doing here or can offer suggestions. This is a tool for all of us!

 

[Dustball]

If a category/keyword for shops with living quarters can be added, that'd be great. It's pretty difficult to go through the threads looking for shops that have apartments/houses inside of them.

 

[shopnut]

If a category/keyword for shops with living quarters can be added, that'd be great. It's pretty difficult to go through the threads looking for shops that have apartments/houses inside of them.

That's a good one since I see the question come up occasionally.

I guess it would only apply to "Detached" structures, otherwise people might start entering their house size . If doing so, it would be nice to display square footage of the living quarters.

Maybe single story vs multi-story is another column to consider too. Both of these could be fairly narrow columns.

(And luvit thought he was done. hehehe)

 

[luvit]

Yeah, I would have this thread closed and the new thread can contribute ideas... i'd really hope to build on existing columns.. We'll kill ourselves trying to cover 100% of the possibilities. For Example:
Can we do this?

( ) Attached
( ) Detached
( ) Apartment (doesn't matter if it's attached or detached)

Instead of
"10 words or less" we can just ask for Brief Notes which aren't covered in the columns.

If we can guide the first 20 entries for good examples, then more people will follow-suit.
All new columns go to end of the far-right.. if I modify the column order of the original entries, I can't be sure if their "Edit" Link will work in the future..
.

 

[luvit]

Oh, and I would not push for this to happen this week, there has really only been two nights on this project, so it's really in it's infancy.. I'm on the edge of getting the first sort-by-owner to be a reality.
.

 

[MSRTom]

I think that effective use of thread tags could be implemented, especially if moderators can edit thread tags

 

[shopnut]

Yeah, I would have this thread closed and the new thread can contribute ideas... i'd really hope to build on existing columns.. We'll kill ourselves trying to cover 100% of the possibilities. For Example:
Can we do this?

( ) Attached
( ) Detached
( ) Apartment (doesn't matter if it's attached or detached)

Instead of
"10 words or less" we can just ask for Brief Notes which aren't covered in the columns.

If we can guide the first 20 entries for good examples, then more people will follow-suit.
All new columns go to end of the far-right.. if I modify the column order of the original entries, I can't be sure if their "Edit" Link will work in the future..
.

I think the three choices above could work - good thinking. Still not sure what the garage condo guy would pick if the place does not have an apartment - I guess "Detached" because it's not connected to his house???

The Brief Notes thing sounds good too - just let people say whatever they want to further describe their place. I would still state some limits on it as a guideline though.

I was thinking the same thing about setting a good example to follow - most people do best with that.

Somewhere in the form is probably a good place to remind them about bookmarking that Edit link for correcting mistakes.