Interesting everyone knows so much about PremierGarage, especially their competitors (Garage Guy and Final Floor). As a PG franchise owner I can tell you Arizona Polymer is not PG's coating supplier, at least not since 2005 when we purchased our franchise. I am sure you both have fine products and do great work, but lighten up on your competition, I am not sure how you can be such an expert on someone else's product? There are many good products on the market and when installed correctly they are probably just fine. I am not on this forum to sell anything, but its hard to sit back and not comment on some of this mis-information. I am on this forum because I enjoy all the great ideas and like to see whats going on because garages are what I do for a living.
Premier Garage
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Interesting everyone knows so much about PremierGarage, especially their competitors (Garage Guy and Final Floor). As a PG franchise owner I can tell you Arizona Polymer is not PG's coating supplier, at least not since 2005 when we purchased our franchise. I am sure you both have fine products and do great work, but lighten up on your competition, I am not sure how you can be such an expert on someone else's product? There are many good products on the market and when installed correctly they are probably just fine. I am not on this forum to sell anything, but its hard to sit back and not comment on some of this mis-information. I am on this forum because I enjoy all the great ideas and like to see whats going on because garages are what I do for a living.
interesting read!! learn more about how PG treats some dealers and something about their floor training and application. (page 18-25) very very interesting.
Page 35 number 156. "Ultimately, PremierGarage admitted that the PremierOne system was
defective. Ex. 7. " UUUUUF!!
Really interesting to me because I alsmost went with them. I learned the biz off a competing company (who now is defunct) and had a similar scenerio. Especially with acid etching and bondo. Almost eerie!
http://www.learnaboutlaw.com/documents/premier_suit.pdf
Hey Fuller, you should print this out and hand it to your next "retail customer" that mentions "hybrid polymer". Make sure you use highlighter.
Just one more clarification, this lawsuit is a claim by the plaintiff(s). Doesn't really mean any of it is true, its the plaintiffs claim. All I can say is it's not close to any experience we had with PremierGarage Corporate.
thegarageguy
Well-known member
it was key resin and now they manufacture their own "hybrid polymer". I never said I knew their exact formula. I simply stated that their "hybrid polymer" is an all poly aspartic system. Never said that I had the best system. Hell, I'm not a munufacturer and by no means am I a slave to any one manufacturer. I'm free to buy my chemicals from whom ever I thinks works best for me.
The funniest part to me is that all these new companies pimping their new hybrid or poly aspartic system are claiming to have the best system out. So I guess every epoxy manufacturer should just close up shop, stop producing their 30 different formulas of epoxies and urethanes and just carry one product. Hell no need for water proof membranes, cause your hybrid polymer is more flexible and better. No need for Moisture Vapor Emission Mitigation Systems because your same system is better. No need for any type of urethanes because your system is better. Novolacs, who needs them, yours is better. Your a cure all and one stop shop for every condition and every industry. Unbelievable how your one formula can cover every other manufacturers 30 different formulas. Incredible!
The funniest part to me is that all these new companies pimping their new hybrid or poly aspartic system are claiming to have the best system out. So I guess every epoxy manufacturer should just close up shop, stop producing their 30 different formulas of epoxies and urethanes and just carry one product. Hell no need for water proof membranes, cause your hybrid polymer is more flexible and better. No need for Moisture Vapor Emission Mitigation Systems because your same system is better. No need for any type of urethanes because your system is better. Novolacs, who needs them, yours is better. Your a cure all and one stop shop for every condition and every industry. Unbelievable how your one formula can cover every other manufacturers 30 different formulas. Incredible!
My comment from a consumers point of view is that I had Premier install my garage floor (about 650 sq ft) and it is very sharp looking and from the looks of it, should last a long time. Time will tell, but it has been great so far.
I think, the key for me was to have a professional do the install. It was more money, but in the long run a better deal for me.
I think, the key for me was to have a professional do the install. It was more money, but in the long run a better deal for me.
Sorry don't get excited. I never said what you quoted, we (my business) do use a vapor barrier when needed, its not manufactured by Premier, we use many other materials not manufactured by Premier. If we have a need and Premier does not supply it they are fine with us using other products in conjunction with theirs. We do use PG coating and it is good stuff, true there are better products out there it just depends on the application. I have walked away from many a job because I know our product won't hold up, like auto shops, etc, but it's great for a residential garages when installed correctley. We have customers that are 4 years old still referring business our way. I avg. about 150 floors a year, I am working on a pie factory next week.... Guess what I am not using Premier in the freezer room, why? because I discussed the application with our chemist/inventor and he did not recommend it.
All, I am saying is don't fill the forum with mis-information, Key Resin is not even close. It's obvious to me you don't have the correct information, not sure where you got it. I have never have posted anything professing our product to be the best or dissing some one elses like you have, why would I criticize something when I am not familiar with it. I have know idea what product you use, it may be great, maybe better than ours, I wouldn't attempt to make the claims you have made.
BTW, saw your advice to use a torch on oil spots, that was good one, nice result
Sounds like you have tons of experience.
missed this quote...who said that?
Actually when you buy a PG franchise, they are very clear the business focus is residential garages, not anything else. It will work in other applications but you are taking a risk if you go outside this arena. I have a chemical engineering background and have worked in the trades for many years, just turned 50. So I am fully aware of the risks, like this pie factory I am coating now... the kitchen, offices, bathrooms, freezers. Last year we did a morgue, check out the pic.
Anyway, garage guy, sorry if you took offense but just wanted to clear the air.
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aleicgrant
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well my floor and cabinets were installed today by pg. Two day process that was done professionally and as expected. The floor will be ready to walk on in a day or so and I will wait a few extra days to put the car in. The reality is that it has a warranty and I feel confident that PG will stand up to that warranty.
FinalFinishFlooring
Member
Never said they wouldn't stand up to the warranty. You really don't have to wait a few extra days to park a car on it but if you want to you can. After the 24 hour period from the point of mixing the material in the bucket and applying it to the floor, the product has fully cured. Hopefully they won't ever have to do warranty work. What color floor did you pick?
Thanks for the post Final Finish Flooring. No offense taken. Just a few notes to your last post. PremierGarage warranties are decided by the specific franchisee, we can offer what ever type of warranty we like, 5 or 10 years is typical in my area, for example we give a 10 year warranty, its not a limited warranty either. I know our Phoenix operation offers a lifetime limited. I don't because I have no need to, most of my competition only offers a 3 or 5, so I don't see the need for anything beyond 10 years. Plus I like being realistic.
One other note when PremierGarage came out with their "hybrid polymer" in 2005 that was when we bought our franchise. The coating was manufactured by another coating company, because of our confidentiality agreement I can't mention the name, I know and have met the chemists, they visited our facility here in CA. You can Google all you want and you will never find them. PG does not buy their coating materials anywhere else. This company also manufactures other high tech coatings for many other industries. They do not manufacture this garage floor coating material for any other companies, Premier has the rights to it, so its only available through a PremierGarage franchise. This year PremierGarage started up their own coating manufacturing facility in Phoenix, with new state of the art equipment, the coating recipe is the same, the chemist and inventor is still kept on as a consultant.
All material made is quality controlled and has lot #'s for traceability, in case of possible manufacturing issues. No changes are ever made with out sufficient testing. Premier has 90 franchises and a wide variety of climates and conditions to be considered, a change made to improve coat ability in one franchisees area could adversely effect another. I can tell you from experience that concrete on the East coast is very different from the West. So prep methods vary. This is one of the advantages of being in a franchise, we have our own web forum and we all share our knowledge and best known methods. So a newer franchisee coming on board is less prone to making mistakes that have already been made.
Lastly your recommendation for aliecgrant is not correct, it really depends on avg. ambient temperature for our floor coating material to reach full cure. Our guideline is to wait at least 24 hours when avg. temps are above 50 F, material is typically 100% cured after 36 hours, it usually fine if you are on the floor 24 hours or more after the top coat is put down, but parking on it right after 24 hours can be risky with new material. I normally tell my customers to wait 48 hours to insure there are no issues, if the material is slightly thicker in spots and not fully cured a heavy vehicle can cause a problem, there are also some new car tire materials out on the market that can create an issue if you park on the floor right at 24 hours (another thing learned by franchisees sharing data).
One other note when PremierGarage came out with their "hybrid polymer" in 2005 that was when we bought our franchise. The coating was manufactured by another coating company, because of our confidentiality agreement I can't mention the name, I know and have met the chemists, they visited our facility here in CA. You can Google all you want and you will never find them. PG does not buy their coating materials anywhere else. This company also manufactures other high tech coatings for many other industries. They do not manufacture this garage floor coating material for any other companies, Premier has the rights to it, so its only available through a PremierGarage franchise. This year PremierGarage started up their own coating manufacturing facility in Phoenix, with new state of the art equipment, the coating recipe is the same, the chemist and inventor is still kept on as a consultant.
All material made is quality controlled and has lot #'s for traceability, in case of possible manufacturing issues. No changes are ever made with out sufficient testing. Premier has 90 franchises and a wide variety of climates and conditions to be considered, a change made to improve coat ability in one franchisees area could adversely effect another. I can tell you from experience that concrete on the East coast is very different from the West. So prep methods vary. This is one of the advantages of being in a franchise, we have our own web forum and we all share our knowledge and best known methods. So a newer franchisee coming on board is less prone to making mistakes that have already been made.
Lastly your recommendation for aliecgrant is not correct, it really depends on avg. ambient temperature for our floor coating material to reach full cure. Our guideline is to wait at least 24 hours when avg. temps are above 50 F, material is typically 100% cured after 36 hours, it usually fine if you are on the floor 24 hours or more after the top coat is put down, but parking on it right after 24 hours can be risky with new material. I normally tell my customers to wait 48 hours to insure there are no issues, if the material is slightly thicker in spots and not fully cured a heavy vehicle can cause a problem, there are also some new car tire materials out on the market that can create an issue if you park on the floor right at 24 hours (another thing learned by franchisees sharing data).
aleicgrant
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I went with Sedona and the large chip size. The only thing I am curious about is the pictures they have on the corp site the floor looks like it has a very thick clear coat and is very reflective. Mine looks thin and not as reflective. Dont know if I am off base but going against the pictures they dont look the same.
Does that makes sense?
aleicgrant
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p.s. I am in FL if that makes any difference.
aleicgrant,
Makes total sense. You should ask your local PG company who did the job. Does the floor look close to the samples they showed you? The pics on the web site are somewhat old and its possible they used more topcoat. All floors will vary. There are a few things that will effect this. One is how smooth the chip surface is before they put down top coat, how much top coat they put down, etc. I always talk to the customers and see what they are looking for (i.e. a very shiny glossy surface or a matte finish). Then we adjust the process to achive the desired result. If a customer wants a really shiny surface sometimes we we will do two layers of top coat, of course we charge extra for it.
Makes total sense. You should ask your local PG company who did the job. Does the floor look close to the samples they showed you? The pics on the web site are somewhat old and its possible they used more topcoat. All floors will vary. There are a few things that will effect this. One is how smooth the chip surface is before they put down top coat, how much top coat they put down, etc. I always talk to the customers and see what they are looking for (i.e. a very shiny glossy surface or a matte finish). Then we adjust the process to achive the desired result. If a customer wants a really shiny surface sometimes we we will do two layers of top coat, of course we charge extra for it.
aleicgrant
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I spoke to the rep and he said they use a single coat to prevent making the floor too slippery. Make sense but I guess from the pictures I was expecting a smoother surface. I think you are right about the older pictures. What would you usually charge for a extra coat?
thegarageguy
Well-known member
Key Resins used to sell and relabel pg's original epoxy system.
Originally I thought Ar. Polymers had something to do with PG's new Hybrid polymer" because sometime between 2003 and 2004 they sent me samples then sold it to me as such...."hybrid polymer" Not too long after that AR. Polymer stopped selling it and low and behold PG was now offering their exclusive "hybrid Polymer". I know that AR. Polymer relabels and has specific formulas for different companies. I just put 2+2 together. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong.
As for PG's Chemist, his name is Ronald Schorr. I'm assuming he once worked for the company that used to sell to PG but now works only for PG.
I have no beef with PG or any other company. I've been around long enough to know that a product is only as good as the one who installs it. What does incense me is when someone comes out and claims their product to be the messiah.
Originally I thought Ar. Polymers had something to do with PG's new Hybrid polymer" because sometime between 2003 and 2004 they sent me samples then sold it to me as such...."hybrid polymer" Not too long after that AR. Polymer stopped selling it and low and behold PG was now offering their exclusive "hybrid Polymer". I know that AR. Polymer relabels and has specific formulas for different companies. I just put 2+2 together. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong.
As for PG's Chemist, his name is Ronald Schorr. I'm assuming he once worked for the company that used to sell to PG but now works only for PG.
I have no beef with PG or any other company. I've been around long enough to know that a product is only as good as the one who installs it. What does incense me is when someone comes out and claims their product to be the messiah.
We usally charge $1.00 a sq ft extra, but it all depends on location, etc.
There is really no profit in the extra layer of topcoat if you have a 400 sq ft garage $400 will barely cover labor, fuel and materials. We mainly do this to keep happy customers. I did my best friend's floor this way when we first started, if you ask him now he said he wouldn't do it again. Not only is the floor more slippery it really shows the dust, he did the 1/4 Desert color.
Your local PG franchise has different overhead costs (rent, labor, taxes, etc.) than we do so they may not offer it for a similar price.
I agree with you, I also get incensed when some one makes a broad claim that a competitors product is ****, like when I saw your post saying Premier=****. But I can see where you are coming from if you have a competitor that says the same about you, happens to me all the time. More so on cabinets. Its hard to refrain sometmes on a sales call bashing the competition but I think we win more sales when we just stick to selling our product and not bad mouthing others, thats my strategy anyway.
So hope we are cool now
aleicgrant
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at this point, I think I am going to leave it as is. I am liking it more and more and the minimal dust is nice. Only bummer is a few gas bubbles developed so they will have to come back and fix it.
Thanks again for the help
Thanks again for the help
thegarageguy
Well-known member
Hey tdickman, I don't remember calling PG ****. Please quote me. I did relay my opinion and observations on all polyaspartic systems or the so called one day systems. I myself reserve to use it on limited occassions where I see fit.
As for your cabinets, I must say they are the bomb!!
BTW, I manufacturer my own cabinets to basically same spec with a few modifications and different options.
As for your cabinets, I must say they are the bomb!!
BTW, I manufacturer my own cabinets to basically same spec with a few modifications and different options.
Sorry, it was on the first part of this discussion, my bad it wasn't you it the post just above yours (JD in DFW). Sorry about that, anyway, our system is actually a hybrid urethane polymer system, not a Polyaspartic (invented by Bayer). I know Flexmar's system is Polyaspartic, from my understanding it has a high solvent content which makes it highly flammable and also illegal in California due to VOC's (from the solvent)above the 250 g/l limit. Solvents are added to reduce the solid content and make it more workable. For more info on Polyaspartics check out this link http://www.concretenetwork.com/polyaspartic-floor-coatings/
thegarageguy
Well-known member
According to your link, which I read a while ago, it says that other companies have come out with similar systems such as PG.
3rd paragraph in this link. http://www.concretenetwork.com/polyaspartic-floor-coatings/systems.html
Whatever the formula is, I'm not to keen on one day systems. Although Jabberwalks pics of his garage where pretty impressive, even though low res pics off a cpu is hard to really check.
3rd paragraph in this link. http://www.concretenetwork.com/polyaspartic-floor-coatings/systems.html
Whatever the formula is, I'm not to keen on one day systems. Although Jabberwalks pics of his garage where pretty impressive, even though low res pics off a cpu is hard to really check.
interesting, , I am not sure what the author of the article means by similar system, most likely that it can be done in 24 hours. the PG formula does not have any solvents in it, and I know its not a polyaspartic, it 0 VOC, but it is a urethane. problem is PG corporate only shares so much with us, the hybrid resins which they use are unknown to us the franchisees.
thegarageguy
Well-known member
How do you know it doesn't have solvents and not poly aspartic or 0 VOC's? Is it what corporate told you or is it in you MSDS sheets? Can you provide a copy? All of my MSDS and product data sheets are readily available to my clients, either on hand or website. Are PG's?
yes we have MSDS sheets available, that's a law, but MSDS won't tell you the chem assay, that's not required in a MSDS, they only need to list hazardous components.
If you look at Flexmar's (poly aspartic) MSDS you can see its highly flammable, a clue that it has solvents, you can compare flash points etc. PG stuff has no flash point because its non-flammable.
As far as the VOC the MSDS says its VOC exempt, I am assumng that means there is none.
Anyway, not sure what the point is. I know you had talked about not liking one day products, far as I am concerend if its 1 day or 30 day, doesn't really matter to me as long as the quality and durability is there. BTW, we do take 2-3 days to do our floors, they can be done in one day but it's cost prohibitive and I don't like getting on a floor 2-3 hours after the basecoat. Avg temp has to be above 50 deg F to do it in one day and most floors would take 10+ hours, so what does my crew do waiting for the first coat to dry??
I can't afford to pay them to stand around
Shoot me your email if you would like an MSDS [email protected]
If you look at Flexmar's (poly aspartic) MSDS you can see its highly flammable, a clue that it has solvents, you can compare flash points etc. PG stuff has no flash point because its non-flammable.
As far as the VOC the MSDS says its VOC exempt, I am assumng that means there is none.
Anyway, not sure what the point is. I know you had talked about not liking one day products, far as I am concerend if its 1 day or 30 day, doesn't really matter to me as long as the quality and durability is there. BTW, we do take 2-3 days to do our floors, they can be done in one day but it's cost prohibitive and I don't like getting on a floor 2-3 hours after the basecoat. Avg temp has to be above 50 deg F to do it in one day and most floors would take 10+ hours, so what does my crew do waiting for the first coat to dry??
I can't afford to pay them to stand around
Shoot me your email if you would like an MSDS [email protected]
thegarageguy
Well-known member
Again, misquoting me.
I never said I did not like them. I feel they have their place but for ME its used as an option, depending on the situation or application.
There are reasons why industrial manufacturers have many different epoxy, urethane and even poly aspartic formulations, depending on slab condition, industry application and/or required spec. This is why when someone comes on here to tell people that their system is the best and the only solution I just have to laugh.
No one formula can cover every aspect of every concrete condition.
Anyway, the original point of my question about MSDS sheets is because it just seemed odd to me that all you PG franchisee guys seem to be kept in the dark about the chemicals you use. It just seemed to me since on all of my chems, the MSDS sheets have the ingredients. So one would know if they are using an epoxy, urethane, poly aspartic or a mix of one or more, which some may call "hybrid".
I wasn't trying to be a wise ***, just curious, thats all.
not keen vs. doesn't like them?...ok sorry for the misquote again.
I didn't think you were being wise. The purpose of an MSDS is for safety, not to tell you the ingredients. I use to work for Intel as a chemical engineer for many years manufacturing computer chips. We had many chemicals that were patented and proprietary, so I do agree with PG corp's policy of not telling us the exact chem assay. There is really no need, what's important is knowing the proper installation methods and the results and performance of the product. We are kept in the dark because it makes good business sense.
" A trade secret is a formula, practice, process, design, instrument, pattern, or compilation of information which is not generally known or reasonably ascertainable, by which a business can obtain an economic advantage over competitors or customers. In some jurisdictions, such secrets are referred to as "confidential information" or "classified information".
shift2sixth
Member
As a former installer of PG products in WI, I'd like to address the OP's concern. I can vouch for the fact that the quality of the job is more dependent upon the individual installer than the product itself.
I believe the coating to be first rate, and if the floor is prepped properly, the floor should perform as advertised. Our dealer did not acid etch thereby avoiding the introduction of moisture. We used a combination of floor and hand grinders and ground every square inch of the floor. Then we doulble vacuumed the floor, and then used an electric leaf blower to remove dust. I know of only one floor failure in the time I worked there, and that failure was due to extremely high moisture content in the floor. I think the poor guy built his house on an artesian well or something. Maybe a good vapor barrier would have prevented that situation, but I think several factors contributed to that failure.
If I were to my floor today, I would do a PG floor coating after I primed the floor with a vapor barrier. I would also do two coats of topcoat. Yeah it would be more slippery, but it would be so easy to clean. I would then get some rubber-backed mats to walk on in the foot traffic areas. And as one forum member here pointed out, I would not use tire ramps to lift my car. I use a wide-wheeled floor jack.
However, I am not doing my floor today, I'm going to sell this house and build new sometime soon.
Here is what I propose to do with my next floor. I will compact the base very well. Put down 2" styrofoam insulation. Cover with 6 mil plastic sheeting as vapor barrier. Add 1" of sand. Lay down radiant heat tubing, covered with sand. Add 4" of base (TB) and compact again. Pour concrete with a six bag mix and tooled expansion joints every 8 feet and a brushed finish. Let cure for several months depending upon weather conditions. Since I already own the angle grinders, I will just suffer the extra labor and grind the floor with those. And since I am no longer on speaking terms with my ex-employer, I will have to call crown polymers and order their epoxy polymer system. (they are relatively close by too) I will start with a liquid vapor barrier, followed by the base coat, chip to refusal, and finally two topcoats of clear.
Somebody on here posted a pic of a two-tone gray floor and that was awesome. My guess is the colors were "smoke" and "graphite". Those would be my choice!
If anybody has a better idea for a floor, I'd like to hear it! Remember PG is out for me due to personal issues.....
JG
I believe the coating to be first rate, and if the floor is prepped properly, the floor should perform as advertised. Our dealer did not acid etch thereby avoiding the introduction of moisture. We used a combination of floor and hand grinders and ground every square inch of the floor. Then we doulble vacuumed the floor, and then used an electric leaf blower to remove dust. I know of only one floor failure in the time I worked there, and that failure was due to extremely high moisture content in the floor. I think the poor guy built his house on an artesian well or something. Maybe a good vapor barrier would have prevented that situation, but I think several factors contributed to that failure.
If I were to my floor today, I would do a PG floor coating after I primed the floor with a vapor barrier. I would also do two coats of topcoat. Yeah it would be more slippery, but it would be so easy to clean. I would then get some rubber-backed mats to walk on in the foot traffic areas. And as one forum member here pointed out, I would not use tire ramps to lift my car. I use a wide-wheeled floor jack.
However, I am not doing my floor today, I'm going to sell this house and build new sometime soon.
Here is what I propose to do with my next floor. I will compact the base very well. Put down 2" styrofoam insulation. Cover with 6 mil plastic sheeting as vapor barrier. Add 1" of sand. Lay down radiant heat tubing, covered with sand. Add 4" of base (TB) and compact again. Pour concrete with a six bag mix and tooled expansion joints every 8 feet and a brushed finish. Let cure for several months depending upon weather conditions. Since I already own the angle grinders, I will just suffer the extra labor and grind the floor with those. And since I am no longer on speaking terms with my ex-employer, I will have to call crown polymers and order their epoxy polymer system. (they are relatively close by too) I will start with a liquid vapor barrier, followed by the base coat, chip to refusal, and finally two topcoats of clear.
Somebody on here posted a pic of a two-tone gray floor and that was awesome. My guess is the colors were "smoke" and "graphite". Those would be my choice!
If anybody has a better idea for a floor, I'd like to hear it! Remember PG is out for me due to personal issues.....
JG
Last edited:
shift2sixth
Member
As a former installer of PG products in WI, I can vouch for the fact that the quality of the job is more dependent upon the individual installer than the product itself.
I believe the coating to be first rate, and if the floor is prepped properly, the floor should perform as advertised. Our dealer did not acid etch thereby avoiding the introduction of moisture. We used a combination of floor and hand grinders and ground every square inch of the floor. Then we doulble vacuumed the floor, and then used an electric leaf blower to remove dust. I know of only one floor failure in the time I worked there, and that failure was due to extremely high moisture content in the floor. I think the poor guy built his house on an artesian well or something. Maybe a good vapor barrier would have prevented that situation, but I think several factors contributed to that failure.
If I were to my floor today, I would do a PG floor coating after I primed the floor with a vapor barrier. I would also do two coats of topcoat. Yeah it would be more slippery, but it would be so easy to clean. I would then get some rubber-backed mats to walk on in the foot traffic areas. And as one forum member here pointed out, I would not use tire ramps to lift my car. I use a wide-wheeled floor jack.
However, I am not doing my floor today, I'm going to sell this house and build new sometime soon.
Here is what I propose to do with my next floor. I will compact the base very well. Put down 2" styrofoam insulation. Cover with 6 mil plastic sheeting as vapor barrier. Add 1" of sand. Lay down radiant heat tubing, covered with sand. Add 4" of base (TB) and compact again. Pour concrete with a six bag mix and tooled expansion joints every 8 feet and a brushed finish. Let cure for several months depending upon weather conditions. Since I already own the angle grinders, I will just suffer the extra labor and grind the floor with those. And since I am no longer on speaking terms with my ex-employer, I will have to call crown polymers and order their epoxy polymer system. (they are relatively close by too) I will start with a liquid vapor barrier, followed by the base coat, chip to refusal, and finally two topcoats of clear.
Somebody on here posted a pic of a two-tone gray floor and that was awesome. My guess is the colors were "smoke" and "graphite". Those would be my choice!
If anybody has a better idea for a floor, I'd like to hear it! Remember PG is out for me due to personal issues.....
JG
I believe the coating to be first rate, and if the floor is prepped properly, the floor should perform as advertised. Our dealer did not acid etch thereby avoiding the introduction of moisture. We used a combination of floor and hand grinders and ground every square inch of the floor. Then we doulble vacuumed the floor, and then used an electric leaf blower to remove dust. I know of only one floor failure in the time I worked there, and that failure was due to extremely high moisture content in the floor. I think the poor guy built his house on an artesian well or something. Maybe a good vapor barrier would have prevented that situation, but I think several factors contributed to that failure.
If I were to my floor today, I would do a PG floor coating after I primed the floor with a vapor barrier. I would also do two coats of topcoat. Yeah it would be more slippery, but it would be so easy to clean. I would then get some rubber-backed mats to walk on in the foot traffic areas. And as one forum member here pointed out, I would not use tire ramps to lift my car. I use a wide-wheeled floor jack.
However, I am not doing my floor today, I'm going to sell this house and build new sometime soon.
Here is what I propose to do with my next floor. I will compact the base very well. Put down 2" styrofoam insulation. Cover with 6 mil plastic sheeting as vapor barrier. Add 1" of sand. Lay down radiant heat tubing, covered with sand. Add 4" of base (TB) and compact again. Pour concrete with a six bag mix and tooled expansion joints every 8 feet and a brushed finish. Let cure for several months depending upon weather conditions. Since I already own the angle grinders, I will just suffer the extra labor and grind the floor with those. And since I am no longer on speaking terms with my ex-employer, I will have to call crown polymers and order their epoxy polymer system. (they are relatively close by too) I will start with a liquid vapor barrier, followed by the base coat, chip to refusal, and finally two topcoats of clear.
Somebody on here posted a pic of a two-tone gray floor and that was awesome. My guess is the colors were "smoke" and "graphite". Those would be my choice!
If anybody has a better idea for a floor, I'd like to hear it! Remember PG is out for me due to personal issues.....
JG
thegarageguy
Well-known member
Again, my point was not to be a di@%, but rather I just found it unusual that you as an owner and applicator didn't know if you where using an epoxy, a urethane, a poly aspartic or a mix of those components. Maybe the use of the word "ingredient" was improperly used, but on MSDS's, it would have what type of component it is. At least mine do.
Again, my gripe isn't with PG's or any specific company's one day system. It's the "one day" system itself. I find it limiting. I am talking from my personal experience from viewing multiple PG floor systems from seperate owners, one day system from Citdl, Arz Plmr, and Verstl to name a few. I've used 2 of those systems and found it to look good in newer slabs with minimal flaws. I've never said the systems don't work. I just feel they do not cover every aspect of every concrete condition.
But I guess to each his own.
Again, my gripe isn't with PG's or any specific company's one day system. It's the "one day" system itself. I find it limiting. I am talking from my personal experience from viewing multiple PG floor systems from seperate owners, one day system from Citdl, Arz Plmr, and Verstl to name a few. I've used 2 of those systems and found it to look good in newer slabs with minimal flaws. I've never said the systems don't work. I just feel they do not cover every aspect of every concrete condition.
But I guess to each his own.
WolverineCoatings
Well-known member
Garage Guy,
I think you make a good point. Sometimes, time helps to minimize defects.
I think you make a good point. Sometimes, time helps to minimize defects.
You continue to make assumptions, not sure where in this conversation we said we don't know what we are using? I do know what we are using, PG coatings are a hybrid polymer urethane system. And Yes, the component is listed on the MSDS, Aliphatic Polyisoacrylate Blend 100%. But again the purpose of the MSDS is safety, if the material you use has more components listed on the MSDS I would guess it's a more hazardous material.
So you don't have a gripe with PG one day or a specific company's one day, but you say it's the one day system itself???? so who would that leave?
I am not trying to be di@% either. I do agree one day system has limits, but no more so than epoxy or thicker systems that take longer to install. I also agree with your comment that one day systems only cover minimal flaws. In my market most of the homes we do are newer and PG coatings work great. I have grinded off many thicker older epoxy sytems, that were yellow or peeling up, I have also grinded off my own system (a PG one day coating). I can tell you from my experience I would rather grind off an epoxy, it comes up much easier.
premierguy
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 24, 2008
- Messages
- 92
You can contact me if you would like a small sample fix kit
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premierguy
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 24, 2008
- Messages
- 92
We live in a day where there are some people who will say or buy anything to gain instant gratification.... PG is not innocent of there demeanor either.
Though I do see the benefits of a polyaspartic coating, I myself cannot say that they are the cure-all product of the century for every job.
BTW... I just saved a guy over $1,000 on his Garage Floor doing it the old method with a twist.... It should last an approximate 18 years here in the Midwest with little or no minor repair.
thundercow
Well-known member
It certainly does include product issues: You can read it yourself here:
http://www.learnaboutlaw.com/documents/premier_suit.pdf
I have read this suit a few times, the claims made by the plaintiffs about product issues seem to be related to improper installation if you ask me. We have been using the same material for almost 4 years with no product issues. Doing several hundred floors a year, we have a very good record, anytime there is an issue its always related to prep.
Just finished this floor at a the Pie Factory in Ripon, CA.
Fuller
Well-known member
I like the cove - is that one of those foam base boards with the cove attached or did you do it the old fashioned way?
Jaguar Fan
Well-known member
Hi,
For grinding off older epoxy systems, what machines/techniques have you found to work best for you?
Thanks
(Your pics of the pie shop, etc are really cool! Great job!)
When we first started we rented several machines, Blastrac, Edco, etc, none of these rental brands worked very well. We went with our corporates preferred vendor HTC, we now have two HTC 420's. They work very well.
http://www.htc-america.com/grinding/machines/grinding/htc420/
Many other franchisees use the HTC 500, which is heavy and faster (and more expensive). Depending on the coating and thickness we will uses either a 25 grit or 40 grit diamond blade. We also have T-rex blades for thick coatings but rarely use them. if you are doing this yourself you can use a 7" hand grinder. We buy the smaller stuff like this from Joe Due. www.joedue.com
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