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prep floor for lift?

AbitNutz

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Mar 22, 2009
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So I'm going to put up a 64 Metals building (steel trusses, Perma-columns). It seems that a 6" floor is the way to go to support a 2 post lift. I'm wondering if I can save a few bucks by only having 6 inches (or more) in the lift area and 4" everywhere else.

Also...Can you prep the pad for installation of a lift? Maybe staging bolts/studs and pouring around them? This would avoid drilling holes. Is this ever recommended? It might be really difficult to get right in the middle of a giant pad.
 
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Mike Miller

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A Friend just had a floor poured, the contractor poured a six inch stall for the hoist and four inches every where else. You are better off drilling the holed after the floor sets, those posts are heavy and hard to set over a bolt pattern. I tried that the first time and it was a ***** to line up, when I moved the hoist to my new shop I set the post up and drilled through the mounting holes, that went much smoother.
 
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AbitNutz

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Thanks for the reply! That reads like sound advice. I guess I should ask some lift makers how big an area I need to be thicker.
 

NHBandit

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A Friend just had a floor poured, the contractor poured a six inch stall for the hoist and four inches every where else. You are better off drilling the holed after the floor sets, those posts are heavy and hard to set over a bolt pattern. I tried that the first time and it was a ***** to line up, when I moved the hoist to my new shop I set the post up and drilled through the mounting holes, that went much smoother.
^^^^ This is what I'm doing. My concrete guy has been in the business for 40 years and had poured alot of garage slabs for lifts. He is also putting in some rebar in the bay where the lift is going. Mesh in the other part of the floor. One thing that may or may not make a difference is your location. Here in Tennessee the ground dosn't freeze like it does up North. This may be something to consider. I simply don't know.
 
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AbitNutz

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I just saw on the Rotary lift site that if the floor doesn't meet the 3000 PSI 5" requirement for the 2 post lift....they want you to put a 4'x4', 6" 3000 PSI pad under each post. Going 4'x4'x6" under the posts and 4" for the rest of the 36'x36' slab should save me quite a bit.

64 Metals is having a sale till 2/16-13 of 5% off or a free upgrade to Perma-Columns so I have to make some decisions pretty quickly.
 

NHBandit

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My guy isn't even charging any extra to do mine that way and he is also using 4000psi mix. I realize concrete work varies alot depending on location but mine is 30x40, with a 10' "apron" in front of the bay doors so a total of 40x40 slab. 4000psi 4" thick with 6" pads for the lift and it's costing me $3800. This includes the site work and a couple loads of whatever it is they put down as a base. Now if it would just quit either raining or snowing here in Tennessee they could get to work. My garage is supposed to be built at the end of this month and the slab is holding everything up. :(
 
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AbitNutz

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Wow! That's less than half what I was quited for 36'x36'x6". No apron either....
 
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NHBandit

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How much prep work does yours need ? The spot I picked out is the highest part of my yard and is already fairly flat & level. That may be making a big difference.
 
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AbitNutz

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The quote was a just a phone quote based on size. The area is very flat and drains like crazy. When you do a percolation test....you can never fill a hole with water. I think if I dug down I could open a gravel pit.

The problem I'm going to have is access with a cement truck. There is no way they can cross the culvert. I'm hoping they can just bobcat it back or have several smaller trucks. Pumping it would just be too great an expense.

When Ivan blew off the roof a very large truck with a crane delivered 60 square of shingles without crushing the driveway or culvert but I think a cement truck would be an order of magnitude beyond that.

These are smart people who have done this before...I suspect they'll find a way to sell me a concrete floor.
 

wedge40

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Here is a photo before the pour.
I had two 4'x4' pads poured. I have 5" of cement everywhere and it's about 8" where the pads are.


Wedge
 

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volaredon

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When I looked up the manufacturer's requirements when I got my lift I found the old specs put up by the manufacurer of my particular unit (no longer in business they were bought out by Rotary in around 1989) and they said 6" min thickness. my lift is a 9K symmetrical. No mention of rebar/no rebar or minimum tensile strength they wanted.
I looked up specs for several "currently in business" lift manufacturers with a similar capacity as mine and some listed a minimum tensile strength "pour" and only one made mention of rebar.
Mohawk is the closest to what my particular unit is, these days; a heavily built "brick $#!t-house of a lift and likewise said 6," with rebar added in.
of the others, Bend Pak and Rotary had very similar specs for their respective hoists and neither currently offered hoist "itself" is built as heavily as mine or a Mohawk are, yet is rated the same capacity; and they say 4 to 5" of concrete is sufficent, something I found strange.

Another thing that I found strange, is that my Weaver, as well as the Mohawk, have larger base plates to spread the load over a larger area; yet call for heavier, thicker concrete base to go along with it;
and are symmetrical hoists, whereas the Rotary and bend pack are assymetric, have lighter thinner stamped columns that claim to be rated at the same lifting capacity.

A couple of companies do say that if your concrete is found to be insufficient to cut it out and repour NOT just under each column "foot" but a 4 foot wide by longer than the span between the columns, dig out a foot in all directions below the existing slab, to "key" it into the existing slab and also tie it into the existing slab with rebar...
and the specs do matter based on age of the slab as well. They also have a minimum spec for how deep the conctere anchors are embedded and minimum torque specs that should be achieveable for each nut on its respective anchor and failing that, to then cut out and repour as I describe above; and to be sure to finish the new concrete dead square and even with the existing slab.
I have the 4-1/2-5" with abundant rebar, and I don't ever see myself using it to its 9K max capacity nor as a day in day out "assembly line" basis either so I am *thinking" that what I have would be sufficient.
Why would this spec be sufficient for one manufacturer's hoist with the same capacity and not for another manufacturer's lift of similar design and same capacity?
 

volaredon

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Wow! That's less than half what I was quited for 36'x36'x6". No apron either....

I paid $6500 for a 30X36 back in 2006, with 18X24 footers what was called a "floating slab", 4-1/2"-5" throughout, all dirt work, and a "5 bag mix" which looking back I didnt know what "5 bag mix" meant then (I do now) I wish I would have gone with at least a 6 bag... from what I understand a 5 bag=3000PSI tensile.
 

wssix99

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It seems that a 6" floor is the way to go to support a 2 post lift.

If the lift manufacturer says so, yes. If they spec a thinner slab, you may be causing more issues...

The main issue you have to contend with is cracking of the slab. All slabs do this due to the volumetric changes in the concrete (it shrinks) as it cures. Thicker concrete builds up a greater amount of tensile stress, which requires more reinforcement and/or more closely spaced control joints to control the shrinkage cracking.

The limiting factor of a floor for a two post lift is not the vertical forces in the slab - its the bending forces. An uncracked thin slab could be much stronger than a thick cracked one for a two post lift.


I'm wondering if I can save a few bucks by only having 6 inches (or more) in the lift area and 4" everywhere else.

This actually makes things (engineering wise) much more complicated and I'd suggest having an engineer experienced with industrial floors detail the reinforcing or put an expansion joint at the transition to isolate the slabs. Unless you have a special rebar design at the transition, you'll get different tensile forces built up there, which could crack the slab. (This is why the lift manufacturers spec a simple uniform slab. They are idiot proof and very simple to design. Once you get in to depth changes, "footers," etc. the design/engineering gets complex.)


Also...Can you prep the pad for installation of a lift? Maybe staging bolts/studs and pouring around them? This would avoid drilling holes. Is this ever recommended? It might be really difficult to get right in the middle of a giant pad.

You should be able to contact the lift manufacturer to confirm. (Depending on depth, spacing, etc. embedded J bolts could be weaker than anchors drilled in after the pour.) If you do this, you'll need to build a jig to hold everything in the correct position. Simply planning out your rebar plan ahead of time could get most of your headaches out of the way.


My concrete guy has been in the business for 40 years and had poured alot of garage slabs for lifts.

Experience is very important, especially in finishing the concrete. The best contractors will have pictures of their work or will give you a tour of satisfied customers and slabs they have done in the past. If you can't get a portfolio or (even better) tours of uncracked slabs just like yours, you shouldn't trust experience - trust the results. An owner can be very happy with the work for the week after a pour when they lay down a check, but pissed off a month later when a slab cracks.


One thing that may or may not make a difference is your location. Here in Tennessee the ground dosn't freeze like it does up North. This may be something to consider. I simply don't know.

As long as the base under the slab is uniform and the concrete doesn't loose contact with it, heave won't be an issue. If there is differential movement or if voids form underneath, that will create weak points where cracks can occur.


My guy isn't even charging any extra to do mine that way and he is also using 4000psi mix.

This is a great way to get a stronger floor - without needing to do with a thicker slab.
 

volaredon

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mine has been there since 2006 with no cracks. a few chips like from my kid smacking the front face when he forgot to crank the jack up on my trailer when he backed it into the garage.... but no cracks
 
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