Preparing for rough-in inspection

[jonness]

I'm prepping for a rough-in inspection, and I'm not sure if my work is up to par. I mounted the subpanel on some 2x4 studs I put up and put up a couple of surface mount boxes on the outside of the studs. If I had to do it over again, I would have not put the stud to the left in and instead mounted the two boxes similar to the others. IOW, the rest of the shop is pole barn style, and I mounted the boxes on the flat side of the boards (Although a few other boxes are mounted in a more normal fashion inside the studs). The heights for the receptacle boxes are consistent as are the heights of the switch boxes.

Does any of this look like an NEC violation that would cause me to fail the inspection or otherwise appear to be problematic. I don't mind ripping part of it out if necessary over this weekend. I need to work fairly quickly because the deadline for switching from the 2017 NEC to the 2020 NEC is later this month for Washington state. So Monday, I will call in and schedule the rough-in inspection, for better or worse.

 

[Jim greengo]

Are you planning on finishing the walls?

 

[jonness]

Are you planning on finishing the walls?

No. The walls will stay as they are.

I plan to insulate and finish the ceiling next summer, but there's no conduit up there that will interfere.

 

[mikegt4]

Sometimes the simplest things will mess you up. My brother did all the things that his inspector wanted but when he called for inspection a different guy showed up and failed him because he wanted things done differently. IIRC, it had to do with the wires left hanging out of the boxes vs. coiled and pushed into the boxes. Most won't be that picky but some will, depending on your luck.

 

[mcbane]

You might want to confirm for your area but usually the code you must meet is the code in effect the day the permit application is accepted. So if new code adopted while permit is in review or prior to final inspection you aren’t trying to comply with a moving target re code.

In any case, this looks like a cosmetic issue unless you have wall coverings like Sheetrock in the same permit. NEC talks about conduit size, connections, and spacing of conduit supports. Doesn’t care if it looks good.


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[Will S.]

That wouldn't fail here, and I can't see why it would anywhere, but you never know in what frame of mind any given inspector will be. But I don't see why it should matter.

 

[Terry D]

Dont know about your area, but since they walls are not getting covered, there is no need for a rough in inspection, just a final. But that is how it is here. I would have all those boxes spliced up and the devices installed and covers on. You could also have the devices wired and mounted to the raised covers, but not attached to the box. Then he could see about box fill and grounding. I would think you only need one inspection. Also have your panel made up. If thats a sub, make sure to keep grounds a neutrals separate, and dont bond the neutral buss to the enclosure.

 

[Terry D]

You might want to confirm for your area but usually the code you must meet is the code in effect the day the permit application is accepted. So if new code adopted while permit is in review or prior to final inspection you aren’t trying to comply with a moving target re code.

In any case, this looks like a cosmetic issue unless you have wall coverings like Sheetrock in the same permit. NEC talks about conduit size, connections, and spacing of conduit supports. Doesn’t care if it looks good.


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NEC states all electrical installations must be done in a neat and workmanship manner. It does matter what it looks like. This job looks clean and good

 

[OneOfEm]

I did exposed electrical, and only had a final - no rough in required.

I was more worried about the electrical inspection than any other inspection (I did all of the work myself), but it was a breeze.

Hope yours goes as well.

 

[jonness]

I called L&I (electrical inspectors in WA state) and asked if I would need a rough-in inspection. The lady on the phone said, "just a minute; I'll ask Leslie." After a few minutes, she came back and said, "Leslie said you will need a rough-in inspection and a final inspection."

I thought that was weird, because of the way the fee chart reads makes it look like one inspection for a detached garage. So I think I'll wire it all up for one inspection, call for an inspection, and see what happens.

On to the next issue: I've been making up my boxes, and I'm noticing there is not much room left for the receptacles. For instance, the box in the picture is 4 x 2-1/8 and contains two 20-amp circuits. One feeds this boxes receptacles, and the other is spliced in this box but feeds the next box in line. By the time I get all the 12 awg wires, pig tails, and nuts in there, there's not a lot of room for two receptacles.

I'm guessing it would have been legal to have shared a ground instead of running two separate wires (could even get by with no ground wires)?

How long do the pig tails have to be? The actual wires started out about 6" or 7" before making up the boxes. But I also stuffed pig tails in there that are 6" or 7" long. So the space has filled up fast.

Also, I'm thinking the Wago's might be the way to go, because they probably take up less space in the box?

Of course, six of the yellow nuts will come out when I put the receptacles in, so maybe that will make enough room.

Also, I forget which wires need a separate pigtail and which can be ran between the two receptacles? I'm thinking the ground can be strung between the receptacles (would save a nut and two pigtails), but the neutral and hot need a separate pigtail to each receptacle?

 

[Terry D]

That looks like a deep 1900 box. Did you do a box fill calculation. If it is a deep one (2 1/8 ) deep, it will hold 13 # 12's. Plus when you add your raised cover for the receptacle(s) , it will add a little bit more. The CI will be stamped on the cover. One #12 requires 2.25 CI.

So to do a box fill calculation,

Each receptacle counts as 2 wires

All the grounds count as 1 ( you should have only ran one ground wire ) but still count as 1

A wire that enters the box, but does not exit the box, counts as 1

A wire that enters and exits the box unspliced counts as 1

A wire that enters and exits the box, but is spliced, counts as 2.

Pigtails do not count, if you have a wire that enters and exits the box, and has a pigtail spliced on it, it only counts as 2.

Pigtails is the preferred method, it is not a code violation if you dont use them.

Wire nuts do not count

It looks like you will be fine, but do a calculation to be sure. If you lay the wires in there more straight and in layers, you will utilize the room better, and i know its harder to do with stranded wire.

Hope this helps

 

[OneOfEm]

You could also use the emt as your ground, then you'd only have a pigtail from the box screw tied to pigtails for the outlets. That wouldn't help much in the boxes, but less wire to pull.

I had a couple of boxes that were pretty full early on, so I stopped splicing where wires were simply passing through and just left a loop for possible future needs. That helped a bunch.

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, Be respectful and cooperative with the Inspector, ask the Inspector "How can I fix this?" rather than try to defend your work.

If you argue with the Inspector, you will loose.

Have a neat and clean installation that shows you are conscientiously trying to do an excellent job

The Inspectors job is to ensure you meet the minimum standards for a safe installation.

My advice is guaranteed to be worth exactly what I am charging you for it.

 

[jonness]

It looks like you will be fine, but do a calculation to be sure. If you lay the wires in there more straight and in layers, you will utilize the room better, and i know its harder to do with stranded wire.

Hope this helps

The calculations show the # of wires is below the max. Thanks for the tip on laying the wires more straight and in layers. I managed to get all the receptacles installed.