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Press brake die sizes & angles?

ClintNZ

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Sep 6, 2012
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Rotorua, New Zealand
I built myself a 20T press a few months back so of course the next step in that project is to make a bending attachment for it. I just scored a 5"x 3"x22" chunk of scrap steel from work for the die (& managed to get it home without it falling through the floor of the car :thumbup:) & I have a mate with a machine shop who can mill a couple of grooves in it for beers.

My research indicates that a 90deg 1/2" wide V groove & a 85deg 2" V groove would cover a range of steel thicknesses, but as I have never used a proper press brake before I'd like some input from those who have on what would be 2 good versatile die shapes & sizes for a home shop press brake.

Tips on making the 'knife' part also appreciated. I figure with a steady hand on the grinder I should be able to shape up some of the 3/8" plate I have for this part.

Cheers
Clint
 
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Kevin54

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I built myself a 20T press a few months back so of course the next step in that project is to make a bending attachment for it. I just scored a 5"x 3"x22" chunk of scrap steel from work for the die (& managed to get it home without it falling through the floor of the car :thumbup:) & I have a mate with a machine shop who can mill a couple of grooves in it for beers.

My research indicates that a 90deg 1/2" wide V groove & a 85deg 2" V groove would cover a range of steel thicknesses, but as I have never used a proper press brake before I'd like some input from those who have on what would be 2 good versatile die shapes & sizes for a home shop press brake.

Tips on making the 'knife' part also appreciated. I figure with a steady hand on the grinder I should be able to shape up some of the 3/8" plate I have for this part.

Cheers
Clint

Why do you want grooves to hold beers? :headscrat

The punch will be 85 degrees, the die will be 90 degrees. Use your square piece for making your die. You want to make it with various widths of your 90 degree angles. The thinner the material the smaller the "vee". The thicker the material, the wider the "vee". Some sites on the internet will show punches at 90 degrees. You DO NOT want to make them at 90 or your part will not form at 90, it will form less. If you have your punch at 85 degrees, then you adjust your pressure or force to compensate. A 90 going into a 90 will leave you with something like 87 degrees unless you really hit it with a lot of pressure. forming 90 into a 90 will be called "coining", and to get a true 90 depending on the material, you may actually thin the material to achieve what you want. If your piece of material for the die is large enough, put 4 "vees" in it. Start with 1/4" on one side, then 1/2", 3/4" and 1" wide going around. As far as the punch, they will vary. You normally want the radius of the punch to equal the same as the thickness that you are bending. You can have a knife edge, and then choose one of the (4) "vees" depending on material and thickness. What you are actually doing is what they refer to as "air bending" meaning that you don't actually coin out your material by burying the punch into the die.

I'll look through my catalogs and see if I can find you some punch designs and also the 4 way die design.

Check this place out http://www.exactapunch.com/PressBrakeTools.htm I have a catalog somewhere that shows a lot of different styles of punches. As soon as I find it, I'll post it up for you.
 
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OccupantRJ

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You can make dies dirt easy for most materials by inverting two pieces of thick angle iron welded to a flat plate. Using different sizes of angle will give you different V widths. A piece of pipe with a V shaped plate welded onto it vertically can be attached to a press ram with setscrews and eyeball aligned to do the job. I have an old setup like this just for bending widths up to about 4 inches.
 
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ClintNZ

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Rotorua, New Zealand
You can make dies dirt easy for most materials by inverting two pieces of thick angle iron welded to a flat plate..

That is exactly what I was going to do before my friend suggested doing it with a heavy chunk of steel & his big milling machine. :) I will probably still make a heavy duty, narrower die with a large opening that way for use on steel thicker than 1/4".

Cheers
Clint
 

readhead

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Durango, Co.
I usually figure 8 times the metal thickness for the die width and 6 times in a pinch if you are bending close to an edge. Air bending is going to be the simple way to calculate what you need.
 
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twopints

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Hi not to hijack the thread , but if unlike Clint who has some material to make the die out of, what are the commercial ones made out of ? Kevin 54 ?
 

bad_idea

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Pasquotank, NC
I have been curious of the necessary material for making the die and punch too. Is it suppose to be a hardened steel of some sort?
 

Kevin54

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Hi not to hijack the thread , but if unlike Clint who has some material to make the die out of, what are the commercial ones made out of ? Kevin 54 ?

I have been curious of the necessary material for making the die and punch too. Is it suppose to be a hardened steel of some sort?

I'd have to look at one of the catalogs I have to see what the production punches and dies are made from that they sell.

In all of my time in tool & die work, we made the punches and dies out of different materials depending on what the job was and what longevity was needed. Some were made out of cold rolled steel, some out of hot rolled steel, and a lot of them made out of tool steel. Tool steel was nice because it is already tougher than cold rolled steel, already ground to the size that you could order, so it was "vise it up and start cutting".

For the average DIY'er for home use in a garage, I would probably use cold rolled steel, or order some pre heat treat 4140. Some of the 4 way "X" shaped dies we bought we actually aluminum with a hard coat anodize. None of the punched or dies that we ordered in though were heat treated to the point that you couldn't cut them with HSS cutters.

What you want to do though is make sure that you don't work in one area time after time after time. If you do, then you will need to redress your punch and /or die because of indentations. You also want to size your punch and dies according to the material you are using. By that, I mean that you don't want to try and for a 90 degree angle of 1/8" material into a too small of "vee" in the die. In doing that, you'll end up trying to form a 90 where you don't have enough room for the material. And when you try to force it to a 90, what happens is that your corner will be thinner than the rest of the parent material.

And as a side note, for the home person, or even someone in a shop environment, if you have a Press Brake or even your garage 20 ton HF hydraulic press, make sure you always have some aluminum angle, or steel angle iron on hand and make use of it. Add a piece to the front and back of your die to lengthen your surface area out, and your part that you are going to bend will be supported by itself. Over the last few years that I was working, we had to redo hundreds of dies to make them "hands free". The reason being was that people were forming small pieces, and if one is not real familiar with a Press Brake, when the material starts to come up, a lot of people will still hold onto the material. With an automatic Press Brake, once it's in motion, it doesn't back up until it cycles through. One girl at our shop that run a brake for year, got her finger between the punch and die. Not only does it break your finger, it won't cut it, but it explodes instead. So it's just a safe practice to make your tooling to where you don't have to have your fingers close to the punch and die. Plus it's easier to concentrate on one thing instead of trying to hold something straight in the die, then look at a gauge or button, or handle, then back to your piece, and so on.

One more thing about sizing your punch and die to the material is that you don't need to be putting excessive pressure on the material to bend it. A lot of times if you have to double your pressure to get something to form, something else stands a chance of breaking. Anytime that you are using pressure to do something, you want to do it the safest way possible with the least amount of things going wrong.

I watched a coworker one time trying to press out a pin with a long punch. He was using an Enerpac with the button you had to push to bring the ram down automatically. Before I could get over to it to stop him, the punch kicked out when he had maybe 15 tons on it. The punch hit him square in the chest and cut him open. Luckily that was all that happened. So in doing something like that, always use the shortest punch you can. Once you get a pin to break loose in the hole, then you can use something a little longer to finish pushing it through.
 

Xtremetalworks2

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Nov 7, 2011
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Honeoye Falls,NY
We use both Amada's and Cinncinati press brakes and both are kind of different as far as size of the dies we use on an amada to form a piece of 16ga CRS (.059 ) We would use a .310 bottom and in the cinnci I'd use a .375 bottom so a general rule to go by would be 5 to 6 times your material on die opening
 
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ClintNZ

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Sep 6, 2012
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Location
Rotorua, New Zealand
Finally got around to progressing the press brake project. Made up the punch & dropped the chunk of steel off to be machined into a die a few weeks back, seems they are a bit busy so I haven't got that back yet. With a job for it I decided to just make a die for use in the interim.

rP1030307_zps2a633270.jpg


I just used 2x 25mm square bar spaced 20mm apart for the die. I still need to do some fettling of the guides to get it bending perfectly evenly but it's working well enough to be useful now.

Cheers
Clint
 
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