Pressure boost for tire machine

[Disney]

I just got a tire machine and balance for my home shop, the Lincoln Lair. The tire machine is a Hunter TC3250. We have a similar machine at work (3500) and we run it at 160psi line pressure. I've got my compressor at 110psi regulated right at the outlet and plumbed throughout the shop.

What i'd like to do is get the tire machine up closer to 150 psi. I don't think my compressor can do it (60 gallon upright residential grade). So i'm wondering what my options are to get the pressure up. I've thought about maybe trying a compound setup where I get a small compressor to feed the machine and plumb shop air into this compressor's inlet. So 100psi in = bunches more out. The machine has it's own tank that it feeds from and it's own regulator as well.

I'm open to ideas on how to do this reasonably (i'm not buying a Quincy today). Thoughts???

 

[zkdiesel]

Get a real air compressor

 

[larry_g]

Is your compressor single or two stage? Either way it should be able to do 120-130 psi so I would remove the regulator from the tank and tap straight into the tank and run a line direct to the changer and move the regulator to remote location to reduce the rest of the system if you must.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[ed_v]

Is your compressor single or two stage? Either way it should be able to do 120-130 psi so I would remove the regulator from the tank and tap straight into the tank and run a line direct to the changer and move the regulator to remote location to reduce the rest of the system if you must.

lg
no neat sig line

I agree with this

 

[baseten]

You might also consider adding a second air volume tank next to your tire machine. I'm not that familiar with tire machines but i've had some luck with that approach for other air-hungry equipment. Most of my air pressure problems with air-driven equipment have been due to low air volume. Might be a cheaper fix than a new compressor

 

[jloehlein]

what is the problem you're trying to solve with more pressure? you may just need more volume. how is the machine plumbed? I've seen a lot of machines plumbed through 1/4" line with restrictive fittings. you might be able to just try a larger, shorter hose. or like basten mentioned, a second tank near the machine.

 

[theoldwizard1]

You might also consider adding a second air volume tank next to your tire machine. I'm not that familiar with tire machines but i've had some luck with that approach for other air-hungry equipment. Most of my air pressure problems with air-driven equipment have been due to low air volume. Might be a cheaper fix than a new compressor

First check the pressure at the machine. It might be low.

Second, put it a second tank as recommended above. 10-20 gallons. Plumb the line from the second tank to your machine with 1/2" line. You will probably have to drill and re-tap the fitting on the tanks.

 

[Handyfarmer]

besides making sure your air line is large enough, replacing the compressor with a two stage unit is most likely the simplest choice,

(I suppose one could feed another single stage compressor with compressed air from the first, to up the air pressure by the compressor, thus making a Home made two stage unit), but unless one had a second compressor setting around unused, and one would have to buy one to try, and there may need to be more HP motor and a different pressure switch, and would probably have some type of unloading problems so it will start, and it just may simply not work, just replacing the old machine with a new two stage would most likely be the best solution to your MORE POWER needs , ARRG, way to go Tim the tool man Taylor, more pressure more power,

 

[tdkkart]

As usual, not a single responder has read and understoof the OP's original post, so at least 6 of the 7 answers above are wrong and of no help whatsoever.

 

[Lotek]

So this one would make 8 of 9, right?

 

[JJThrasher]

T off before your regulator and run a full pressure line to the machine.

 

[djjsr]

There's a thing called an "air amplifier". You may be able to find a small one with a 2:1 ratio at a reasonable price. Be careful, some of those things are capable of building thousands of psi.

 

[sberry]

Changing comps would be the easy cheap way.

 

[mikegt4]

I would contact Hunter and find out what the pressure and volume requirements are for your machine. They may be above what your compressor can produce. Being a commercial tire changer I would think that a 2 stage compressor would be in order. As far as daisy chaining compressors, assuming you have a single stage, I don't think that it would be successful as the compressor is designed to start with atmospheric pressure and the motor could not compress air already at 110 psi. It probably wouldn't do the pump any good either.

Bottom line: that nice tire changer deserves an appropriate air supply.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

The MANUAL gives the following information.

Do not exceed these pressure limitations:
SUPPLY LINE PRESSURE (from compressor) 220 PSI.
OPERATING PRESSURE (gauge on regulator) 145 PSI.
BEAD SEATING PRESSURE (gauge on hose) 40 PSI

Normal Shop pressure most air tools expect to see is around 100 psi. I did not realize a tire machine used so much pressure (these are maximums however, minimum pressures are not specified)

Charles

 

[Thorold]

Not at all experienced on this but is the the burst and volume needed to seat the tire that is the issue ?

 

[nadogail]

There's a thing called an "air amplifier". You may be able to find a small one with a 2:1 ratio at a reasonable price. Be careful, some of those things are capable of building thousands of psi.

Yes, I have learned of them when I had problems with a pneumatic hoist. The hoist problem was solved by replacing the cylinders with those of a larger diameter.

As I recall, air amplifiers were not considered to be economically feasible for that problem, but every situation is different.

 

[matt_i]

Same problem, large plant where the compressor is bigger than a truck and never going to get more than 100psi.

As suggested, use a "pressure intensifier", should be available from SMC amongst others. It should give you 165 psi easily. Not a lot of volume is needed as I recall, its mainly for breaking the bead where the cylinder diameter is limited and they build more of a hydraulic seal setup.

 

[gungatim]

just throwing this out there. what about running it off a large CO2 bottle? co2 is around 300psi, you could easily regulate that down to 150 to run the air motor. you could probably even devise a way to plumb the CO2 in with the air line using a check valve to run both and save on the CO2 usage...just a thought....

 

[sberry]

This is almost like going to the zoo sometimes.

 

[ms fowler]

This is almost like going to the zoo sometimes.

..with a herd of children afflicted with ADHD.

 

[Nexussian]

This is almost like going to the zoo sometimes.

..with a herd of children afflicted with ADHD.

On crack.

 

[gungatim]

I know there is a contingent on here that does everything by the book is **** about codes, must have every light switch cover screw clocked in the same direction with US made screwdrivers, and does not believe in modifying/hot rodding/or improving on the cheap. I get it, no problem, but name calling people that enjoy DIY fixing/modifying and finding alternative ways of solving a problem is a little childish don't ya think?

after all, isn't that why half of us are here? doing our own repairs, saving money, hot rodding cars, etc.?

 

[Disney]

Is your compressor single or two stage? Either way it should be able to do 120-130 psi so I would remove the regulator from the tank and tap straight into the tank and run a line direct to the changer and move the regulator to remote location to reduce the rest of the system if you must.

Single Stage. It will do 120, but I generally choose to not run it that high.

The Tire Machine has it's own tank built in, I'd say a 4-5 gallon unit. So volume doesn't seem to be an issue at all.

You might also consider adding a second air volume tank next to your tire machine. I'm not that familiar with tire machines but i've had some luck with that approach for other air-hungry equipment. Most of my air pressure problems with air-driven equipment have been due to low air volume. Might be a cheaper fix than a new compressor

The machine has it's own tank built in. No volume issues.

what is the problem you're trying to solve with more pressure? you may just need more volume. how is the machine plumbed? I've seen a lot of machines plumbed through 1/4" line with restrictive fittings. you might be able to just try a larger, shorter hose. or like basten mentioned, a second tank near the machine.

Great question! What I am trying to do is increase the pressure that the machine operates at. Specifically, I want the levers that clamp the wheel to the machine to have just a tad more grip/force/bite. I want the bead breaker on the side to have a bit more oomph. The tire fill is regulated separately from the mechanics, so that is not a concern.

First check the pressure at the machine. It might be low.

Second, put it a second tank as recommended above. 10-20 gallons. Plumb the line from the second tank to your machine with 1/2" line. You will probably have to drill and re-tap the fitting on the tanks.

Excellent advise! I have 3/4" hard line running to the machine now. I did tap it and I get 110psi even while running the machine. The only air intensive function the machine has is then you use the "Bead Seater" blast, and that's very very rare for me. As in; i've never needed it.

There's a thing called an "air amplifier". You may be able to find a small one with a 2:1 ratio at a reasonable price. Be careful, some of those things are capable of building thousands of psi.

HELL YEAH!!! I did not know this!! This is the kind of positive thinking I need!

just throwing this out there. what about running it off a large CO2 bottle? co2 is around 300psi, you could easily regulate that down to 150 to run the air motor. you could probably even devise a way to plumb the CO2 in with the air line using a check valve to run both and save on the CO2 usage...just a thought....

Hell Yeah!!! Great idea!!! I'm just a hobbyist/Race car driver. I'd bet a large CO2 tank would last Long time just running the machine portion and shop air for inflation. That definitely has my mind working.....


Thanks for the advise everyone! Please keep it coming!

As for the second compressor, I actually DO have a second small compressor laying around that I would sacrifice to be the second "stage". I would tap the inlet of 1/4npt run shop air to the inlet, then the outlet to the tire machine. That was the plan anyways until I heard about this Air Amplifier and C02 idea.

 

[Disney]

Changing comps would be the easy cheap way.

Easy, yes. Cheap, no. Fun, no. Creative, no. Cool, no. Effective, maybe.

If I had your money, there would be a rotary screw Ingersol sitting behind my shop making sweet sweet music. But alas, I am but a poor boy, nobody loves me.

 

[oldcpecdr]

I sold Hunter for 15 years. The TC3250 is fine as long as you DONT have to change any run flats or low profile high performance tires. The one you have pictured has a bead breaker but no other "power tools".

The reason it needs higher air pressure is that it runs with an AIR MOTOR, no electric motor to spin the table.... so you DO need some air and volume.. 125-145 psi works for most as long as the air motor isnt too tired. The newer designs have gone to a 220 volt motor that has more torque for the difficult tire assemblies.

This model was around for many years and will work just fine for everyday tire changing.. just stay away for the extra low profiles.... Parts should still be readily available.

As with other things in life LUBE is your friend.. use lots of it and your tire changing experience will be MUCH better.

Good luck.... Mike B

 

[sberry]

Easy, yes. Cheap, no. Fun, no. Creative, no. Cool, no. Effective, maybe.

If I had your money, there would be a rotary screw Ingersol sitting behind my shop making sweet sweet music. But alas, I am but a poor boy, nobody loves me.

Absolutely not. I do not have a screw. I been a this a while and I know a brain fart or 2 when I see them. The best cheapest way to get on with life here is sell the old and get the proper one, it doesnt need to be great, a HF 2 stage or similar would be fine.
As someone said, they went to a lot of effort to get this far and not invest in a sufficient comp to run this and related tools.

 

[Disney]

These came out of a high school auto shop and appear to not have been used too heavily.

To be frank, I have not had any problems with the machine. But I would like to bump the pressure to avoid any problems with clamping or bead breaking. I think maybe the best course for now is to T off the compressor and run a dedicated line pressure to this machine and regulate down the rest of the shop air. And maybe turn the compressor shut off up to 120 instead of 110.

Thoughts?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[sberry]

It will help some. But,,, and or at some point it may be a problem for other related work, running other air tools, there isn't much headroom with a single stage. You can feed constant pressure. It would be turning on above the point you are shutting off now.
A there is nothing to turn down to for other shop air, it's already low.

 

[Disney]

Dammit. I'll start shopping for a two stage. BUT I DON'T HAVE TO LIKE IT!!!!

 

[sberry]

I know about the easiest way to do everything involved in these types of shops, there is no real good way to get around a good solution here but to ante up and find the "right" comp for you. It doesn't need to be the worlds best but a mechanic shop really should have 2 stage.
Many moons ago a 3 hp with 60 was common for mechanic shops, the 5 hp has kind of passed it due to the fact it is more suited to body work and light blasting. I actually use a 3, I have more I could turn on but don't, I use the tanks and have fewer longer run cycles.

 

[sberry]

I am on the end of a **** rural line. I believe they have a 7.5 limit on motors. I have a light ****** but 400 service but I can easily see a 5 hp start and flutter the lights on a comp. My backup and demand unit is a relic I wired together, I leave the breaker off and use a 3hp champion which is over 40 yrs old under the cover. I abused it when I was a kid with the wrong oil, we had it in the humid a couple times, probably was a point it wasn't drained for years.
But 20 ago put a rod brg in it, cleaned it and did ring it, didn't hurt and head gasket. A couple yrs ago had to brg the motor and then blew a start cap which tripped the breaker. I believe I replaced the belts in mid 90's. It had about 10 yrs not used but not cared for either but has been on since 1972 or so. My Dad bought it from Montgomery Wards.

 

[sberry]

If a guy thinks about it, I remember this was a pricey ****** and it was a while before I grew in to it to really get the tools for it. It seems it was a lot of money then and not much more now.
Tools are cheap. The problem is theyh usually have to come out of extra money, what is left over after paying 600 a month for a car like clockwork. My Bud has a fist ful of snap stuff bought 50$ a week and think I am insane suggesting he is a perfect candidate for a 1000$ wire feed. Got 2 snowmobiles 10K a piece.
While some of the newer cheaper models are not as good as premium ones they cost a lot less and work very well for a long time.
My Bud bought a used Cman for 400 from the guy down the street who bought a better unit, was an auto mechanic, used it 30 till he died with tightening the belt twice and fixing a start contactor once and 1 oil change.

 

[Disney]

Well, I just slapped in my new $300 door opener last night so I will have to recover from that for a few before I start shopping again. I think an 80gallon 2 stage should be more than enough for my little shop. The 60 gallon has done just fine up until now, just want some more pressure is all and the little feller just can't do it.

Suggestions on brands or places to shop? I looked on C-list and saw a few locally.

 

[WhiffySpark]

For what it's worth that machine isn't great at holding pressure even if you up the pressure. New feet will help but not much

 

[sberry]

I don't know the machine in question but having low air isn't going to help it.

 

[sberry]

A single stage has its place, have a bud with one, doesn't use it much so it doesn't matter. They are ok for a Jack Olsen garage, uses limited air tools, wants more wind than a 120V model and isn't all that much bigger.

 

[Disney]

Good news is I should be able to recoup all the money I have in this 60 Gallon.

 

[sberry]

Yes, that is cool and as you said, its working for now, turn the comp up and see how it works, most go to 125 or even a pinch more.
I really don't have a lot of interest in every thread and tend to focus where the utilities are concerned. That is really my interest, matching man and machine when needed wit enough to be adequate considering the duty cycle and frequency.
There are other threads where I have been accused of being "insistant" which may be kind to myself but they are usually following a lot of other ideas many of which consist of limited experience. A guy may do something once, it works, thinks he has done it right or efficiently, sometimes it matters, some it doesn't but I focus on economics.
(interruption)