"Pressure Toward Mediocrity"

[Bolster]

My wife is a marketing genius and manufacturer. (That's how I'm able to afford some tools, BTW...thanks, wife!) The other day I was explaining the lamentable downward quality often discussed here in many top-line truck branded tools, and at the same time, the surprising upward trend in quality at low-end places like HF. (When I started the HF Pass/Fail thread I expected to see about equal numbers of Pass and Fail, or maybe more Fail than Pass...yet the Passes clearly dominate.)

She schooled me in "Bonehead Economics 001," and I thought it was interesting, so I'll share what she said. YOU have the ability to agree or disagree. (Being married to the marketing genius, I do not have that freedom...therefore I agree. ) But here's what she said:

The marketplace forces mediocrity on all manufacturers, a "pressure toward mediocrity." The middle-of-the-road, the so-so, the good-enough, the medium-quality, the passing grade. As manufacturers naturally gravitate toward that middle, which is where the money is (the most payoff for least amount of investment), that opens up opportunity at the bottom (think HF or Hundai of years past) and it opens up opportunity at the top for new mfgr's going after the discerning or "botique" shopper (maybe Toptul or other new mfg'r) where the competition is not as heavy.

She said a few mfgr's always buck the trend by staying quality (think Snap-on, or Tiffany), but not many. Most quality brands will sell out after their reputations have been made...sort of like college professors who work as little as possible, once they get tenure.

She says this story has played out a million times in the marketplace, and that my observations about tool quality pretty much applies to most manufactured categories of products.

What say you?

 

[goodfellow]

Agreed! But market pressure and competition also forces those same "low-ball" players to make improvements in order to capture a more discerning customer base. Think Taiwanese made tools -- in the 80's they were all ****, now many are an excellent quality value. HF's Chinese tools are getting better as well -- market forces at work.

Now much of the bottom end market is covered by Indian and Vietnamese suppliers.

 

[davestlouis]

I was always taught that the top 10% of buyers want to pay the most, because they don't trust their ability to discern quality, so they buy "high" to be sure to get quality. Conversely, the bottom 10% shops low price, and don't really care about quality. It's the 80% in the middle who make up the majority of the market, so I guess that's where the meat of any market is going to be, and manufacturers will gravitate to that "meaty middle".

 

[Merkava_4]

What say you?

Mediocre don't cut it for me.

 

[gofastman]

Mediocre don't cut it for me.

Neither does grammar
This thread is interesting though, for example, Mac has made a great name for themselves over the years, but all the tools I have bought from them ****.

 

[MarkH]

It may say something. Most of the people I know from Japan, do not really shop for bargains. It is almost cultural, too low a price = ****. The USA is laughed at around the world, if you cannot sell it anywhere else ship it to the USA. They will buy any **** as long as it is priced cheaply.

Learned that initially as I tried to purchase quality teas I had had elsewhere in the world. The distributors and others pointed this out multiple times to me. I had to purchase find the only two people in the USA that could occasionally get good product and much more limited than I wanted. The same has held true for almost any other product.

 

[billymade]

I noticed that same thing in Germany; whether it was food, bread, tools or cars... the irony of all of it is that the German people are also notoriously thrifty! When my German relatives were here in the USA; all they did was complain about how low quality everything was here... "your american beer ist piss bier!" If you look at any website of a German or European brand of something; they emphasize the quality and processes that they go through to make their products, most American companies do not emphasize this. As for thriftiness: Just ask my dad who will drive all the way across town to get .10 cents less on a gallon of gas! LOL!

 

[Coach James]

In investing, and a few other things, this is known as Reversion to the mean".

Coach

 

[Bolster]

Regression to the mean.

That's funny, I was wondering if anyone would recognize "pressure toward mediocrity" as regression to the mean, but wasn't sure how many people had statistical training.

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

The marketplace forces mediocrity on all manufacturers, a "pressure toward mediocrity." The middle-of-the-road, the so-so, the good-enough, the medium-quality, the passing grade. As manufacturers naturally gravitate toward that middle, which is where the money is (the most payoff for least amount of investment), that opens up opportunity at the bottom (think HF or Hundai of years past) and it opens up opportunity at the top for new mfgr's going after the discerning or "botique" shopper (maybe Toptul or other new mfg'r) where the competition is not as heavy.

She said a few mfgr's always buck the trend by staying quality (think Snap-on, or Tiffany), but not many. Most quality brands will sell out after their reputations have been made...sort of like college professors who work as little as possible, once they get tenure.

She says this story has played out a million times in the marketplace, and that my observations about tool quality pretty much applies to most manufactured categories of products.

What say you?

Probably a lot of truth there. Some companies will never aspire to be more than mediocre, if that...while a rare few will aspire to be the best right away and stay there. I would guess that the ones that want to be the best...a lot of them are still run by the founder.

It can be real tough to change customer perception. I remember a few years ago, Wal Mart was trying to sell some upscale women's clothing...but it didn't end up working so well. Wal Mart had such an association with being cheap quality that people that bought clothing there didn't want to pay a premium...even if the clothing was better quality.

Occasionally I shop at Big Lots...which, as most of you know, is a closeout store. A lot of people will badmouth Big Lots, but if you can discern quality, as I feel confident I can...you can find some damn good deals there. I've gotten a lot of quality stuff there for virtually nothing.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Occasionally I shop at Big Lots...which, as most of you know, is a closeout store. A lot of people will badmouth Big Lots, but if you can discern quality, as I feel confident I can...you can find some damn good deals there. I've gotten a lot of quality stuff there for virtually nothing.

The down side to that is you had to sift through a lot of poo to find the bargain didn't you!

 

[speed bump]

I wish they would require everyone to take economics 101.

 

[goodfellow]

Regression to the mean.

That's funny, I was wondering if anyone would recognize "pressure toward mediocrity" as regression to the mean, but wasn't sure how many people had statistical training.

Actually, Coach is correct as well -- it's also referred to as "Reversion"

The underlying premise is that that prices and profits eventually move back towards the mean -- even if there are many outliers to suggest differently.

 

[jim2664258]

LMAO what a thread for an Indian spammer to respond to. **** off.

You can give it whatever formal name you want to, but I simply call the economic model 'greedy bastards'. Make as much as you can and nothing else matters. Calling it by some statistical name is just marketing ********. Sorry.

 

[toolchaser]

67 Galaxie is right Big Lots gets some sweet deals IF you know your products. I would go just to see the failed product lines that end up there I.E; Heidi Klum hard candy, Larry the cable guy fish fry coating, Giant plastic guitar full of Elvis endorsed popcorn...

 

[JML2]

Most quality brands will sell out after their reputations have been made...sort of like college professors who work as little as possible, once they get tenure.

Now I know what I should do. I want to be the Snap-On Professor of Law, given that I haven't become mediocre since getting tenure. And I refuse to teach in China, even for a summer.

 

[Flatintoone]

I don't have any data to back anything up, but I like the 10/80/10 % breakdown above. There are a large number of people who walk into a store/dealership and just ask for the most expensive version of whatever they're buying-apples, vacuum cleaners, lawn mowers, refrigerators, Fords, or Mercedes-regardless of actual quality, effectiveness, or usefulness. At some level this might be about not trusting themselves to know quality, but I think some of it is just being able to own the 'best', and a LOT of it is just to show off or keep up with the Jones'.
I think a lot of the 80% are more heavily influenced by price.
And the bottom 10%, whether out of necessity or thriftiness, will always buy the cheapest thing possible.

 

[Murphy4570]

A lot of the talk in here reminds me of certain ideas in a book I'm currently reading called Atlas Shrugged. Interesting.

 

[sberry]

Competition forces everything to go up in quality or down in price. Take baseball players, none hit 500 and none in the game that hit below 200, they all have got better. When you compare one against the other, overall averages (the world is one big average) its basically the same but the hitting has got better along with the pitching. Most of the players of yesteryear wouldn't make it today. Bob Uker wouldn't have got out of the minors, etc.

My Grandmother once mention that the quality seemed to be going down,,, yes, in outright comparison in SOME things, she saved for 3 months to buy first toaster that last 30 yrs or more but you can buy new one for 20$ today, an hours pay, 2 hours for a low wage worker.

Look at cars, tires, a car of the 70's is junk compared to even a cheap car of today, change the oil a couple times run many 100K before needing any work or a tune up, used to be a V8 needed valve work at least once in its life along with constant maintenance. Now many engines, 4 and 6 bangers see 250K and not particularly well taken care of.

 

[mrjaw14]

I agree with the poster 100%. I was thinking about this very thing recently and how a lot of it comes with the "pussification" of our society, at least when it comes to men being able to do manly things anymore...most are out getting new flashy clothes, parting their hair, or walking their tea-cup poodle instead of getting dirty and fixing things and being men. That's why I love this forum, it's full of men who still know how to get things done.

Most men won't appreciate upper end quality (unless it's hair gel) so those of us that try to get quality products have fewer and fewer options. I see the push to mediocracy going hand in hand with things being disposable, or put another way, why buy a ratchet for $100 when I can buy 5 cheap ones for $20? most men won't use it enough to need 2 cheap ones in their whole life, so it's not worth it to buy quality for them.

Men please teach your boys how to be men, and in doing so they'll learn to appreciate, and demand, quality....and hopefully push the middle more toward the higher side rather than "just good enough"

 

[londonsteve]

I agree mediocrity is winning, even in schools the teaching seems to be levelled at the average student and not trying to bring the mediocre up to the brightest.

 

[lwlobo]

FWIW, regression to the mean is a general statistical concept that applies to certain populations, including gambling, batting averages, winning percentages, etc.

Market forces often push companies toward the middle, high volume portion of the market, but those are standard economic supply/demand principles and are a somewhat different concept than classic statistical regression to the mean, even if the result is similar. Those market shifts are based on deliberate business decisions to increase sales or profits (which is generally the purpose of a business) and is a different phenominon than a basketball players field goal percentage dropping off in the games following a few nights of hot shooting.

FWIW, a lot of companies strongly resist moving toward the middle because it may compromise their premier reputation and the market value of their brand. Doing so may limit overall profits in the short term but may protect their stability and profit margins over the long term.

 

[Steevo]

A lot of the talk in here reminds me of certain ideas in a book I'm currently reading called Atlas Shrugged. Interesting.

An excellent book, and an interesting analysis of American business climate of the period.

 

[nanofrog]

I understand the point she was trying to make. But there are variables that have nothing to do with science or math when determining statistics, such as human emotions (takes out the hedonic aspect).

Greed in particular, as product QC tends to dip when the business side decides to eliminate steps in manufacturing that turned out to insure the previous QC levels in order to increase their gross margins, even if they're already high. Product QC is an afterthought by comparison, and is why some brands that had built up a solid reputation have declined, particularly after a shift in management, such as an independent company being bought up by a multi-national conglomerate.

 

[bsaint]

Agree. BMW is a sellout.

 

[bsaint]

An excellent book, and an interesting analysis of American business climate of the period.

In the perception of a woman in that time period.

 

[Murphy4570]

In the perception of a woman in that time period.

A White Russian, as well. I dug a little into the writer's background before I started to read the book, as I like to know of any possible biases to be mindful of when reading books. The time of publication (1957) is also smack dab in the middle of the McCarthy period of U.S. politics.

 

[jmm]

In the perception of a woman in that time period.

A really weird woman. Will leave it at that. Not a fan.

A few points brought up remind me of this article I saw earlier today: http://bucks.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/04/striving-to-lead-more-of-an-heirloom-life/

 

[dadsEH]

My Dad always told me....



YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR !

Quality is like buying oats... a bag of nice clean oats cost more than oats that been through the horse.

 

[Rust]

Of course, lets not forget the major factor of mediocrity: economy.
Sorry, i had to point that out for you.

 

[Provincial]

There is another factor to the quality game. I have observed companies that yo-yo their quality. Here's how it works: you work hard to put out quality work/product. You get a reputation for high quality and are able to charge higher prices. They then cut corners on quality and it takes a while for the word to get around, so they make high profits. Once the customers catch on, they have to scramble to get work/sales. They then improve quality, but it takes a while to re-establish their reputation. Then the cycle begins again.

Usually, the quality cuts happen when a hot-shot CEO takes over. He often has moved on to another company (victim) before the customers catch on, so he escapes blame for the troubles left behind. Sandy Weil (American Express, Citibank) is an example of this.

In a way, you could say this is regression to the mean, because these companies spend more time passing the mean going up and down than they spend at the extremes.

It would be interesting to hear Bolster's wifes take on this.

 

[MBfreak]

Hi.
Two cents worth ( aka "rant") from my perspective. Purely MY experience, I am not one for believeing in generalities.
Education has become much better. When my son left college he was WAY ahead of me at that stage.
Electronics have become MUCH better. I worked my way thru college as a TVrepairman, the old school radio guys wer lost at it. A black and white good quality TV made in Europe 1963 had an average MTBF of 14 months. I made good money !
Cars have become MUCH better. A modern low priced car starts, drives and lasts 10 years /200k km´s befor major repairs, often much longer. A top quality MB 300 SE 1963 had to have valve train repairs and service done every 30000 km. ( But looked MUCH cooler!)

So, while I am sure that politics, gender equality and many other of our " topic of the day" aspects are certainly degenerating towards some mediocre " just functioning" level, this should come as no surprise. Those segments of our society are run/hijacked by the least educated, least honest no-names.
Think News of the World, LIBOR, WDM, criminal bankers, greedy lawyers, AIPAC........ The list goes on and on.

All they are doing is to try to pull YOU down to their level, in order for them to stop feeling inferior. They also often manage to grab deep in your pocket, if you let them. I do not.

So guys/girls, keep to your standards, dare to judge between good and bad and dare to make your OWN decisions. And repair all your own stuff!!

Also, read " Shop Class as Soul Craft" by Matthew B Crawford. He has a lot to say about the value of honest work.


Ola

 

[Provincial]

MBfreak, you have some good points, but should remember that the "median" or "mean" that the world gravitates to is a moving target, where technology tends to improve with time. That means that a "median" product has to improve over time in order to stay at the "median." The qualtity comparisons are to contemprary products, not historical ones.

 

[premierplayer]

Your wife nailed it. Craftsman, right?

 

[Jim85IROC]

Hi.
Two cents worth ( aka "rant") from my perspective. Purely MY experience, I am not one for believeing in generalities.
Education has become much better. When my son left college he was WAY ahead of me at that stage.
Electronics have become MUCH better. I worked my way thru college as a TVrepairman, the old school radio guys wer lost at it. A black and white good quality TV made in Europe 1963 had an average MTBF of 14 months. I made good money !
Cars have become MUCH better. A modern low priced car starts, drives and lasts 10 years /200k km´s befor major repairs, often much longer. A top quality MB 300 SE 1963 had to have valve train repairs and service done every 30000 km. ( But looked MUCH cooler!)

So, while I am sure that politics, gender equality and many other of our " topic of the day" aspects are certainly degenerating towards some mediocre " just functioning" level, this should come as no surprise. Those segments of our society are run/hijacked by the least educated, least honest no-names.
Think News of the World, LIBOR, WDM, criminal bankers, greedy lawyers, AIPAC........ The list goes on and on.

All they are doing is to try to pull YOU down to their level, in order for them to stop feeling inferior. They also often manage to grab deep in your pocket, if you let them. I do not.

So guys/girls, keep to your standards, dare to judge between good and bad and dare to make your OWN decisions. And repair all your own stuff!!

Also, read " Shop Class as Soul Craft" by Matthew B Crawford. He has a lot to say about the value of honest work.


Ola

I think it's a matter of perspective. Products that are heavily dependent on technology, such as cars and electronics, may still be mostly mediocre, but the mean that determines mediocre has moved way up in quality thanks to technology. If you compare products that technology hasn't had as much of an influence on, I think you find that "the good old days" produced better stuff for the most part.

 

[pfctblu]

"good old days" indeed....

Reminds me of the recent news that one of the last actual glass bottlers for Coca Cola has ceased production using glass now. Winona, MN was the last of its kind for coke fans...

Its alarming how realistic the movie IDIOCRACY is turning out to be. So now I cannot get Coca Cola in a glass botte and USA vice grips are made in Shenzhen...."Mediocrity, its what the customer CRAVES!"

 

[bcradio]

A really weird woman. Will leave it at that. Not a fan.

I definitely am a fan... great book

....and USA vice grips are made in Shenzhen...."Mediocrity, its what the customer CRAVES!"

Sorry, but where a tool is made doesn't determine quality. I do agree though that the Chinese vice grips aren't as good as the older ones.

 

[jmm]

So guys/girls, keep to your standards, dare to judge between good and bad and dare to make your OWN decisions. And repair all your own stuff!!

Also, read " Shop Class as Soul Craft" by Matthew B Crawford. He has a lot to say about the value of honest work.


Ola

You'd probably enjoy this. It's kind of a work out, but brings up some really cool points.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0300119097/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[jmm]

"good old days" indeed....

Reminds me of the recent news that one of the last actual glass bottlers for Coca Cola has ceased production using glass now. Winona, MN was the last of its kind for coke fans...

Its alarming how realistic the movie IDIOCRACY is turning out to be. So now I cannot get Coca Cola in a glass botte and USA vice grips are made in Shenzhen...."Mediocrity, its what the customer CRAVES!"

Try the Mexican bottled Cokes, available increasingly outside of Latino-centric markets. Come in .5 Liter glass bottles. They're made in a factory using 50s technology AND cane sugar. Can't beat em.

 

[MBfreak]

Hi jmm.
Thanks for the heads up on Sennets book. I have it and it is a good one.

The mother lode in this vein is, to me, still Pirsig " Zen Buddism and the art of motorcycle maintenance" . I have used that book as required reading for anybody who wanted to become shop general foreman or application design senior engineer in heavy electrical engineering mfr. ( read BIG power plants).

Best regards

Ola