Preventing Unwanted Belt Grinder Use...how to?

[happymachinist]

Hopefully the title isn't too confusing, but here's the scoop.

Our machine shop recently got a new belt sander/grinder. It is a pretty nice belt sander (Burr King 960-400 variable speed) and we'd like to keep it that way.

Our shop's purpose is to support production of a manufacturing facility that employs roughly 600 people. At any time these 600 people can enter the shop at their own free will. We are not permitted to lock the shop, management wants the doors open so that anyone with an issue feels free to come into the shop and have said issue resolved.

So with that back story what can we do to prevent untrained personnel from operating said belt sander and potentially injuring themselves or damaging the equipment.

We don't really want a keyed interrupt, although it would be the easiest option the guys feel it would be too cumbersome. Our thoughts were a number key pad or maybe a proximity device/gizmo that functions similarly to newer cars/trucks. If we did go the route of the key pad it would be nice if the pin number would be easy to change as the number in use may get leaked and need to be changed

Hopefully this isn't too confusing. Just wondering if any of you have ever implemented something like this and what options are available.


thanks,
happy

 

[Sticky Grips]

Have you looked into RFID access?

This would be a card or FOB that would block use. Way faster to access than a key.


You could also just enact a policy that limits access to specific tools within the shop. This would have to be enforced by management, which sometimes says one thing, and does another.

 

[happymachinist]

Have you looked into RFID access?

This would be a card or FOB that would block use. Way faster to access than a key.


You could also just enact a policy that limits access to specific tools within the shop. This would have to be enforced by management, which sometimes says one thing, and does another.

RFID has been discussed and I am currently looking into it. We would need access for approx 25 individuals. Have you used RFID for somthing like this in the past? My though was swipe on swipe off, RFID module controls a larger relay cutting line power when swiped off.

As far as policies and management go that has also been discussed. With the large number of people who work here and the fact that we are a 24/7 operation with limited night shift supervisors/supervision we fear it is just a matter of time before some knuckle head disobeys and goes hurting themselves.

It would be nice if a 3 Phase model of this Linear IEI Model PKAC-110AC were available
http://www.becaudio.com/Shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=12794

 

[signcrafter]

What about a guard over the start/stop controls that either used a simple combination padlock or an rfid padlock?

 

[pancho400cid]

Can you add a simple on/off switch but hide it near the machine and let only "authorized" personnel know where it is?

As with most other lock-out switches other than timers, authorized users would have to remember to turn it off after using the machine... not fail-proof for sure.

 

[PugetDude]

Open access to the maintenance shop to discuss a problem isn't the same as open season on using the equipment. You have a management problem.

 

[American Locomotive]

I really think a keyed e-stop button would be the easiest solution. It's not like you'd have to lock it out whenever you're not using it. Just when no one else is in the shop.

Also, you have a machine shop full of equipment, but the belt sander is the one you're worried about?

 

[Legion Prime]

Open access to the maintenance shop to discuss a problem isn't the same as open season on using the equipment. You have a management problem.

^THIS! Tell them if they want free access to the shop that means free access to everything in the shop. If they eat their cake they will no longer have a cake.

 

[dr_clyde]

Open access to the maintenance shop to discuss a problem isn't the same as open season on using the equipment. You have a management problem.

I really think a keyed e-stop button would be the easiest solution. It's not like you'd have to lock it out whenever you're not using it. Just when no one else is in the shop.

Also, you have a machine shop full of equipment, but the belt sander is the one you're worried about?

This and this. Management lays down the rules. If you break them, write ups, disciplinary action and/or firings are in order. Its that simple. No one other than authorized personnel is to use the belt grinder. If management can't enforce that, then you for sure have a management problem.

And I would be far more worried about a lathe or drill press hurting someone than a belt grinder, although they are somewhat dangerous.

 

[neophyte]

Have you looked into RFID access?

This would be a card or FOB that would block use. Way faster to access than a key.


You could also just enact a policy that limits access to specific tools within the shop. This would have to be enforced by management, which sometimes says one thing, and does another.

RFID has been discussed and I am currently looking into it. We would need access for approx 25 individuals. Have you used RFID for somthing like this in the past? My though was swipe on swipe off, RFID module controls a larger relay cutting line power when swiped off.

As far as policies and management go that has also been discussed. With the large number of people who work here and the fact that we are a 24/7 operation with limited night shift supervisors/supervision we fear it is just a matter of time before some knuckle head disobeys and goes hurting themselves.

It would be nice if a 3 Phase model of this Linear IEI Model PKAC-110AC were available
http://www.becaudio.com/Shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=12794

Fick RFIDs,

I have to use a RFID card on a daily basis, and the RFZiD sygnal gets too weak to properly function in a couple months or less.
My RFID credit card used to routinely have problems functioning with some insert readers, which should have been much less problematic than tap readers, since the RFID chipped card gets inserted right next to the reader in a defined position.
I highly doubt a funtioning workshop full of steel and cast iron power tools and large electric motors will make RFID technology more reliable, especialy if the shop is using equipment to process metal.
The key systems used in construction machinery would probably be more reliable if it could be hookup up, or a numbered keypad.

 

[seanc_mt]

Your management sounds like they are trying to get sued... 600 employees complete and unrestricted access to tools they arent properly trained to use?

 

[Aquamoose]

Home Depot & Lowe’s has keypad interlocks for their saws. You could research about what they use?


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[jdewitt]

You could make something. Get a keypad switch that will control a relay (or relays) that will close the power circuit to the belt grinder.

 

[ZRX61]

The companies liability insurance carrier will soon educate the management idiots on this issue..

 

[bwringer]

Open access to the maintenance shop to discuss a problem isn't the same as open season on using the equipment. You have a management problem.

...you have a machine shop full of equipment, but the belt sander is the one you're worried about?

Your management sounds like they are trying to get sued... 600 employees complete and unrestricted access to tools they arent properly trained to use?

The companies liability insurance carrier will soon educate the management idiots on this issue..

Agreed. No unauthorized people anywhere NEAR the machine shop. Period. End of story. Let alone actually touching or turning on things they aren't trained and authorized to use. Next jagoff to even stick a nose in the machine shop gets walked out immediately.

Too bad if it hurts someone's feelings, or they feel "unwelcome" or something. Forget the belt sander; everyone OUT!

This is, literally, a ******, multimillion dollar, entirely preventable disaster waiting to happen.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Home Depot & Lowe’s has keypad interlocks for their saws. You could research about what they use?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Codes are typically 1111 or 1234. I've been tempted to make cuts before.




OP: I would HIGHLY recommend simply instating a policy, in which only approved personal can use specific equipment. Belt sander is low on my list of fears for the "unwashed" walking into a machine/fab shop and starting to try to use things.

Maintenance/machine stuff is for the guys that use it.


If you REALLY want to prevent people using it, cut the power cord in half, and wire some weird connector in there. Imagine the two mating ends of a European "socket" in the center of the cord. Restrict access to the mating section of the cord which takes the tool back to a standard wall plug.

 

[Mr. T]

Your management sounds like they are trying to get sued...

As long as it’s documented that they told said employee not to do said thing they really aren’t liable unless the machine is improperly guarded or in some other form of state that makes it inherently unsafe for anyone to operate.

 

[6PTsocket]

This sort of thing is all too common. Our shop maintained a lot of electronic and mechanical equipment. The building maintenance people had their own shop but they would often use our bench grinder. Some fool would routinely grind aluminum and totally load up the wheels. This came up at safety meetings. The supervisor was less than effective in putting a stop to it and did not really seem to care.

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[ttpete]

This sort of thing is all too common. Our shop maintained a lot of electronic and mechanical equipment. The building maintenance people had their own shop but they would often use our bench grinder. Some fool would routinely grind aluminum and totally load up the wheels. This came up at safety meetings. The supervisor was less than effective in putting a stop to it and did not really seem to care.

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We had a similar problem. Our shop was lockable, but because we worked for Ford Motor Co and the building belonged to Ford Land Development, they had access 24/7. Machinery power came from a bus duct overhead, and each drop came from a box plugged into the bus duct This contained fuses and a disconnect switch. The switch was operated via a hooked pole. I modified the pole by making the hook removable. At quitting time, I'd pull all of the disconnects, unscrew the hook, and lock it up in the cabinet. The pole went back in the corner.

 

[el monte slim]

I don't have any useful information to offer for a mechanical or electronic device to restrict the use of that new piece of equipment.

However, I will say that Burr King Belt Grinders are incredibly well-built and durable machines. They are so good, that I consider them to be the standard by which all others should be judged. I personally wouldn't worry about any damage being inflicted on it by the general factory populace. I would just hang a sign over it that says something like this;

This belt grinder is not for use by an inexperienced or careless operator, because it can bite you if you're doing something stupid. You've been warned...

 

[tarbellb]

Agreed with policy issues.... but

I would make it complicated to the untrained to turn on, ie have several switches that need to be flipped before it works. Quick for the informed, intimidating for the uniformed. Plan on using a E Stop for cutting power, adds one more level of protection.

 

[klassenl]

There are many ways to do this. As mentioned there are any number of keypad/rfid systems - talk to your local electrician. However a disconnect with a pad lock and keys issued to qualified users is probably the quickest and easiest.

Remember the least secure thing in the whole chain is the bag of meat holding the key.

 

[CR888]

Its good your asking the question and its important before anyone is potentially hurt that a proper solution is found. As others have mentioned you perhaps management needs to be reminded of the 'potential' costs/liabilities should something happen if an untrained person was to injure themselves. Get it right now while everything is OK & well done for raising the issue. Safety is important & its forward thinking people like yourself that insure people go home to their families in one piece.

 

[tool_scrounge]

Remove the sanding belt. The belts go into burr kings fast anyway.

 

[Aquamoose]

Codes are typically 1111 or 1234. I've been tempted to make cuts before.

That’ll be expected by minimum wage folks. I’ll bet that if management used keypads and gave each their employees their own special unique code, they would think twice about sharing it..... use their last 4 # numbers of their Social Security. [emoji41]




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[bugnut]

Similar issues, first order more belts and teach the designated users how to change.

second get hold of your sparkies and have them install a lock with a numeric keypad

https://www.sargentandgreenleaf.com/

change the combination on the same day every month

minor irritant in life

 

[LOW1]

I can't imagine osha would like having untrained workers accessing equipment that they are not trained to use.

Are the machines on separate electrical breakers and can you control access to the panel?

 

[happymachinist]

Thanks for everyone's insight. I've taken some notes and will do a little more research, put together several options and get a shop consensus.

I'm not really here to discuss my companies management and or their choices...but...a little more information on our situation:


We have Tool Room employees who are certified to run every piece of equipment in our shop. Our shop has two parts basically. A precision side and a general fab side. Only Tool Makers are trained and permitted to run the fancy-ish stuff CNC mills, lathes, grinders EDMs along with manual mills lathes grinders etc.

Then we have the fabrication side/room. This consists of band saws, shear, brake, panel saw, belt sanders etc. In this room certain additional employees are trained by us tool room guys on the operation of the above mentioned equipment. These people are basically production machine mechanics, maybe 40 people or so who often need to modify or fabricate simple one off guards or brackets. For the most part they are mechanically inclined but they sometimes fail to ask for help when needed and things like our band saw blades and sander belts pay the price. We go through a lot of band saw blades.

As you can imagine if said individuals don't know how to set the proper speed on a band saw they also don't know how to replace the blade they just scorched. These are the individuals we would like to prevent from operating said belt sander, not the other 550 people who barely realize we exist back in the corner of the plant.

This situation is not ideal, I am not here to argue that. It's just the world I/we live in. Often I wish we had a badge reader on the door to limit access like many other doors in our facility but that's not an option as of now. (we've tried)

Also, I assure you all we do have policies in place to keep everyone safe.

"Violation of this policy will result in disciplinary action up to and including termination" Is typical wording we see.

It's the bad apples we are worried about, the ones who disregard policy or don't know how to read posted signs "For Tool Room Employees Only" (we've tried) And I understand that it's their fault and should get in trouble, but if someone ruins something they simply shut the machine off and walk out the door leaving us to fix/repair the issue. This is why I am here, we as a shop want to prevent damage to our shiny new Burr King, as robust as it is. (You can imagine the hoops we had to jump through to get a $4,800 belt sander approved by the higher ups)

The Burr King in reference hasn't even been used yet because we are waiting on our Safety Officer and supervisor to write up a JSA (Job Safety Analysis) document for the machine. Not sure how much of an industry standard this is but here a "help" document is attached to each machine with color pictures illustrating safe operation, E-stops, potential hazards LOTO procedure ect.

I can see someone thinking our training is inadequate for the additional authorized employees. Personally being one of the trainers I can assure you when I train someone I am as thorough as I can possibly be. In my eyes the fault lies in people being to arrogant to ask for help.

Sorry to be long winded just trying to clarify our situation. Any additional input is appreciated.

Thanks,
happy

 

[jayoldschool]

Lockout plug. Give keys to authorized users.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Video camera to catch the bad apples. When a machine is trashed; review the video and take proper action.

 

[PugetDude]

Video camera to catch the bad apples. When a machine is trashed; review the video and take proper action.

Wood chipper?

 

[el monte slim]

Thanks for everyone's insight. I've taken some notes and will do a little more research, put together several options and get a shop consensus.

I'm not really here to discuss my companies management and or their choices...but...a little more information on our situation:


We have Tool Room employees who are certified to run every piece of equipment in our shop. Our shop has two parts basically. A precision side and a general fab side. Only Tool Makers are trained and permitted to run the fancy-ish stuff CNC mills, lathes, grinders EDMs along with manual mills lathes grinders etc.

Then we have the fabrication side/room. This consists of band saws, shear, brake, panel saw, belt sanders etc. In this room certain additional employees are trained by us tool room guys on the operation of the above mentioned equipment. These people are basically production machine mechanics, maybe 40 people or so who often need to modify or fabricate simple one off guards or brackets. For the most part they are mechanically inclined but they sometimes fail to ask for help when needed and things like our band saw blades and sander belts pay the price. We go through a lot of band saw blades.

As you can imagine if said individuals don't know how to set the proper speed on a band saw they also don't know how to replace the blade they just scorched. These are the individuals we would like to prevent from operating said belt sander, not the other 550 people who barely realize we exist back in the corner of the plant.

This situation is not ideal, I am not here to argue that. It's just the world I/we live in. Often I wish we had a badge reader on the door to limit access like many other doors in our facility but that's not an option as of now. (we've tried)

Also, I assure you all we do have policies in place to keep everyone safe.

"Violation of this policy will result in disciplinary action up to and including termination" Is typical wording we see.

It's the bad apples we are worried about, the ones who disregard policy or don't know how to read posted signs "For Tool Room Employees Only" (we've tried) And I understand that it's their fault and should get in trouble, but if someone ruins something they simply shut the machine off and walk out the door leaving us to fix/repair the issue. This is why I am here, we as a shop want to prevent damage to our shiny new Burr King, as robust as it is. (You can imagine the hoops we had to jump through to get a $4,800 belt sander approved by the higher ups)

The Burr King in reference hasn't even been used yet because we are waiting on our Safety Officer and supervisor to write up a JSA (Job Safety Analysis) document for the machine. Not sure how much of an industry standard this is but here a "help" document is attached to each machine with color pictures illustrating safe operation, E-stops, potential hazards LOTO procedure ect.

I can see someone thinking our training is inadequate for the additional authorized employees. Personally being one of the trainers I can assure you when I train someone I am as thorough as I can possibly be. In my eyes the fault lies in people being to arrogant to ask for help.

Sorry to be long winded just trying to clarify our situation. Any additional input is appreciated.

Thanks,
happy

This is a great follow-up to your original post, and thank-you for taking the time to write it.

For whatever the reason, sometimes those "bad apples" tend to be extra-resistant to receiving training from a fellow employee. I would suggest contacting the distributor or manufacturing representative who sold you the Burr King. Ask them what resources might be available for having someone come in from the outside to provide the training. You might be pleasantly surprised in what you discover, and here's why that's possible:

I'm a self-employed band saw blade distributor that's done fairly well for myself, because I've always placed a big emphasis on helping my customers solve problems like this. I offer free in-plant training for band saw operators on how to best utilize and maintain their machine(s), because there's tremendous value in it for all parties involved. I'm not alone in doing things this way. There's a high degree of likelihood that someone in your area can provide you with this service at low, or virtually no cost.

That being said, sometimes coordinating a training effort like this can present a challenge. Especially when you have 40 employees who could benefit from it, and who might also be spread out over multiple shifts. (Not impossible, just a bit challenging)

I would offer to perform this free training service for your fellow employees, but it's just not possible for me to do so from a logistical standpoint. (I'm located over 800 miles from central Nebraska)

At any rate, I wish you well and respect your efforts to improve the working conditions at your place of employment.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Wood chipper?

The wood chipper can be reserved for the violator's wife or girlfriend to use. When he goes home and announces he was fired for touching "Princess", "Honey", or "Sugar Plum"; it is doubtful he would have time to explain those nicknames were given to shop equipment.


Come to think of it;; at the end of the OP'S shift; He could spray the machine's controls with a strong perfume. Let the violator's wifezilla handle matters from there.

 

[epmills]

I think a simple keyed power switch would be the easiest option, and give a key only to authorized users. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002MPPT3O/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[happymachinist]

This is a great follow-up to your original post, and thank-you for taking the time to write it.

For whatever the reason, sometimes those "bad apples" tend to be extra-resistant to receiving training from a fellow employee. I would suggest contacting the distributor or manufacturing representative who sold you the Burr King. Ask them what resources might be available for having someone come in from the outside to provide the training. You might be pleasantly surprised in what you discover, and here's why that's possible:

I'm a self-employed band saw blade distributor that's done fairly well for myself, because I've always placed a big emphasis on helping my customers solve problems like this. I offer free in-plant training for band saw operators on how to best utilize and maintain their machine(s), because there's tremendous value in it for all parties involved. I'm not alone in doing things this way. There's a high degree of likelihood that someone in your area can provide you with this service at low, or virtually no cost.

That being said, sometimes coordinating a training effort like this can present a challenge. Especially when you have 40 employees who could benefit from it, and who might also be spread out over multiple shifts. (Not impossible, just a bit challenging)

I would offer to perform this free training service for your fellow employees, but it's just not possible for me to do so from a logistical standpoint. (I'm located over 800 miles from central Nebraska)

At any rate, I wish you well and respect your efforts to improve the working conditions at your place of employment.

Not unlike how my wife is more receptive to suggestions or help from my dad than she is from me? (In no way am I implying that she is a bad apple.)

All jokes aside you make good points on training. Our challenge here is like you said multiple shifts and new mechanic hires/promotions that will happen in the future. That said worth looking into.

Thanks,
happy