Price check in aisle # 2 please...

[woody 73]

I don't know if the guy had too much beer or maybe I need a few more beers; but is what he saying on the up and up ?

In short what he is saying is that his older Mac pliers are the same as the Harbor Freight Doyle pliers of Today. I don't know, they sure look the same too me and I would never put anything past Mac for their overseas tools.

What say you guys does he have a valid point in his video ?

The Video in question:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...FC6B1E1E9805394BD19DFC6B1E1E9805&&FORM=VDRVRV

 

[CJM8515]

Mac is known to have stuff imported, same thing with matco. Course HF is also REALLY good about copying whatever it is of course as well.

 

[unslow1]

Pretty much all the companies rebrand stuff. They also let older designs be used. I laid a Snapon ratchet next to one from Ace a few years ago. They were identical externally except the name. Does that mean they are totally the same? I don't know.

 

[woody 73]

So if I am hearing you guys right HF just liked the Mac tools so much they made duplicate copies of them ?

 

[CJM8515]

So if I am hearing you guys right HF just liked the Mac tools so much they made duplicate copies of them ?

wouldnt doubt it at all. the patent probably expired as well.

 

[woody 73]

wouldnt doubt it at all. the patent probably expired as well.

So that has me thinking maybe just maybe the guy in the video has a valid point after all.

 

[plinker]

A lot of made in china pliers have that "cheap" feel to them, I would say most of Matco's pliers fall in this category. They just feel poorly made and seem like they would break easy if used hard.

I have a small number of them as specialty types and such, they work ok in that area, but high use pliers such as needle nose, cutters, channellocks, & slip joints would be very frustrating to use compared to higher quality pliers. Been there, done that.

 

[ganymede]

Those ol mac pliers, especially the slip joints look very Channellockish.

 

[sberry]

I bought some dyes and 9s at a restore, a cheap tool place. Originally got them to ride on tractors and carts. They were exact clones of Klein s. I would have treated them better if I had any idea they would last as long and longer than the brand. I have tried other, Menards, Lowes, not as good and very hit and miss, do not have the exact same "feel".
I would like to source them again, all my stuff is worn out and would take a hundred bucks and buy 10 new pair.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Some Chinese manufacturers are like mercenaries, they will manufacture for anyone with a dollar. I was once involved in receiving and handling conex containers full of various third party labeled and approved tools. The various distribution or catalog companies ordered from us by the pallet load. The tools were often shipped to the end distributor by me and never entered the facilities of the third party. There are many tools exactly the same, just in a different color and company package. They will supply it with whatever brand name you want on it if you buy enough of them. You pay in advance, and the items ship after a predetermined time, at your risk. You better have it insured, because there are containers occasionally lost at sea. HF are most likely having theirs made and sent to their own distribution centers due to the volume they are ordering.

 

[noahwins]

This was the first set of tools I ever bought off a tool truck because it made me feel official and "part of the brotherhood" or whatever. It came with a bunch of "bonus" pliers as a BOGO come on.

Then I saw that video about the Doyle pliers a few weeks later.

Felt like a sucker.

Like a sucker, I went back and bought $1400 of mostly Chiwanese tools from the Mac guy over the course of the year because he was polite, bothered to show up every week, took my pitiful $20/week payments and answered my text messages. Plus I felt a little sorry for him and his clapped out, sun faded Mac tool truck because the internet is destroying the tool truck business model while a co-worker, a Snap On elitist, subtly bullied him and he had to stand there and take it like a professional retail sales guy.

One week I bought a set of fluted metal grinder bits or Uni bits for something like $125. When he gave them to me off the truck there was a big MADE IN CHINA sticker on the package and I didn't have the heart to return them immediately. Same bits cost $30 on eBay. I stopped buying Mac stuff after that.

That said the pliers are perfectly good. I use them daily. The cutters have stayed nice and sharp.

Best buys from the Mac guy even if I overpaid, like a sucker: DeWalt 20V 1/4 impact driver and drill, battery pliers, crimping pliers (Mac TCT111P), Redback boots and the best work light I've ever used (Mac SPL1500M).

If I was richer/better paid/not ready to jump off the Golden Gate Bridge because of student debt, I would get a set of those beautiful Mac Precision Torque wrenches that Facom makes. Easily the nicest feeling wrenches I've held in my limited experience. I borrowed them from the shop tool cart whenever possible.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CX7P1Q9/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Fedwrench]

What say you guys does he have a valid point in his video?

No. He's comparing apples to oranges. Yes the slip joint pliers both have red grips but, the shape of the jaws are completely different and there's no mistaking the curved jaws of the classic 447G dykes.

First off although I didn't hear him say it in his video but, the MAC pliers are USA Made. Channellock made/makes pliers for MAC, Cornwell, and MATCO truck brands. The Doyles might have used those pliers as their inspiration but, they are by no means the same pliers. the guy in the video is an idiot.

However, if he was to compare the made in China pliers sold by Cornwell, Matco, and MAC trucks he may have a better argument aside from the ones on the truck are made in China, Peoples republic of whereas, Harbor Freight's Doyle pliers are made in Taiwan. Periodically, the trucks will have a 10 piece set of pliers in a black nylon bag. I often thought the bag was the best part of the special. He probably should have compared the PRC made Quinn pliers to the tool truck PRC made pliers. There are a lot of Chinese pliers available on a MAC/MATCO/Cornwell truck but, there are also rebadged channelocks and knipex too. It's your choice.
I haven't bought any Doyles yet but along with other newer offerings from Harbor Freight, they look to be a step in the right direction.

 

[noahwins]

There are a lot of Chinese pliers available on a MAC/MATCO/Cornwell truck but, there are also rebadged channelocks and knipex too. It's your choice.

The Mac guy definitely tried to steer me and the one other young guy towards the Expert line of tools because they were more affordable and the big *** grab bag sets like the 10 piece set of pliers to fill out our toolboxes.

He sold it to me as a "weekly special" for $140 or something. For a little more than $3/socket and with the DeWalt impact gun, it's been good.

https://www.mactools.com/en-us/Expe...3-8-Drive-Combination-Impact-Socket-Set-6-PT-

The really high end US made Mac stuff was nice. Like the Precision Torque multispline sockets and those Facom wrenches. Just too much for me, though.

 

[woody 73]

The first 4 pictures are made in the USA from many years ago.

 

[woody 73]

This pliers is from that 10 pc. set and it is made overseas.

 

[noahwins]

They cheap out on everything now because no one gets paid enough to afford good domestic tools like back in the 1960s and 1970s. The laser engraving on the new Mac pliers is so shallow it's barely legible after a year of use on mine. I wish the engraving was real like on your old schools.

Remember, "free trade" means the 1% are FREE to TRADE your job for massive corporate profits and giant executive compensation packages.

 

[JBH]

Remember, "free trade" means the 1% are FREE to TRADE your job for massive corporate profits and giant executive compensation packages.

It also means we get to pick the best from all over the globe and not be shackled by provincialism.

 

[noahwins]

It also means we get to pick the best from all over the globe and not be shackled by provincialism.

At what cost though? All of those Chinese (and soon Indian) products are steaming their way across the ocean in thousands of cargo ships that emit as much CO2 as hundreds of thousands of cars per year each and there are no environmental and labor standards to speak of in China, except for bribing Communist Party officials.

"Free trade" is a race to the bottom that makes the super rich even richer and rapes the Earth.

Sure, we save a few bucks on knock off pliers. Just beware that we'll pay for those cheap products on the back end when major cities become uninhabitable due to global warming and the ecosystem as we know it collapses. In fact, it already is...

Whenever possible, I'll to buy NOS, American, German or Japanese tools because their factories aren't pumping poison into the water and air and their employees get paid decently. Plus they aren't junk.

 

[kctyphoon]

They cheap out on everything now because no one gets paid enough to afford good domestic tools like back in the 1960s and 1970s. The laser engraving on the new Mac pliers is so shallow it's barely legible after a year of use on mine. I wish the engraving was real like on your old schools.

Remember, "free trade" means the 1% are FREE to TRADE your job for massive corporate profits and giant executive compensation packages.

Snap on stock prices would prove otherwise..

And stop with this ******** in here.. you can spew your nonsensical AOC talking points on another forum. (Did that hurt?)

Especially after you opened by making a point at the Chinese tools you bought.

Remember this?

“ I went back and bought $1400 of mostly Chiwanese tools from the Mac guy over the course of the year because he was polite”

Some strong morals you have - do as i say, not as i do.. reminds me of someone else that just had a vote BOMB.

 

[noahwins]

Snap on stock prices would prove otherwise..

And stop with this ******** in here.. you can spew your nonsensical AOC talking points on another forum.

Is this a safe space? Sorry, didn't mean to upset you in any way.

 

[kctyphoon]

Is this a safe space? Sorry, didn't mean to upset you in any way.

No safe spaces here buddy.. maybe you should protest.

 

[JBH]

At what cost though?

Billions of people being pulled out subsistence (or worse) poverty, and greater variety of products available to all consumers at every price point. The horror!

 

[kctyphoon]

Lets try to call this what it is.. is this is a millennial student, who always got a trophy, didnt realize, “actions have consequences” - and is finally realizing that success isnt just “handed” to you simply because you took out loans and went to school?

I recently had a convo with someone at work (same person i posted about in another thread) that has been complaining non stop that he feels he’s underpaid - BECAUSE - he has skills in a DIFFERENT FIELD other than whats he’s being paid for right now. His feeling is that we should have all been making close to, or the same money.. i asked him “this is what you think, that me and you should be paid the same? SO - really what your saying is, you’ve been doing this a year, and the 18 years of experience i have OVER yours - is worthless? Am i the one asking YOU what to do?”

I find this guys post funny to be honest. In one sentence you complain the internet is killing the tool truck model, and in the next you complain about paying more for something off the truck than you could have paid online.. SO - is the tool truck guy suppose to work for free? Hand you an ice cream cone with every purchase and say thank you for the $10 profit that wont even cover my gas for the day? People dont work for free - imagine that.. so theres a snap on elitist working at the same place you are?? Apparently then - SOME people are getting paid a decent wage there huh? Do you have any factual points, or did you come here just to NoaWHINES ?

 

[noahwins]

Billions of people being pulled out subsistence (or worse) poverty, and greater variety of products available to all consumers at every price point. The horror!

Like I said, we'll pay for today's consumer paradise on the back end. Nature charges interst. When the full force of the Holocene Extinction hits, billions of those people who developed a taste for Coca-Cola will migrate to the global North after their cities become uninhabitable due to flooding, drought, heat and political unrest. Some cities in India and Iran are already becoming uninhabitable in the summer with temps hitting 130. Remember when planes were grounded in Phoenix when temps hit the high 120s? Get used to these kinds of disruptions to global trade.

But this is small stuff. Luckily, middle aged and old people today will dead by 2040, when the IPCC reports the first real major geopolitical crises will hit. Some of us won't be so lucky.

Have a nice day.

 

[kctyphoon]

The world is gonna end in 12 years anyway.. didnt your bartender tell you?

You may want to dig a little deeper and find the source of a lot of those figures you hear..

“97% of scientists agree” - Reality?

= 79 people who were actual climate scientist, that filled out a 2 question survey in a 2009 poll from the Universety of Illinois.

 

[noahwins]

The world is gonna end in 12 years anyway.. didnt your bartender tell you?

You may want to dig a little deeper and find the source of a lot of those figures you hear..

NASA.

https://climate.nasa.gov/

 

[kctyphoon]

NASA.

https://climate.nasa.gov/

Yea. You may wanna do a little more research at exactly how they arrive at the those numbers..

If there is a net gain (key word right there) CONFIRMED BY NASA of ice, then how is all the ice melting? You may wanna watch some old Al Gore videos, and see where we were “going to be” today.. i can do this all day.. but not here.. go find a nice SJW forum where people dont do their own research.

Ill help you with this one.. while it’s still under debate as to why, the ice sheets have GROWN, and their numbers come from the ice sheets not expanding AS MUCH. Thats entirely different than making people believe the polar caps are smaller than they were. Saying “there used to be a net gain of 20%, but now theres only a net gain of 18% (I’m making those numbers up) - and then saying - “we are loosing ice” does not exactly reconcile.

To be clear - i am not saying there is no such thing as climate change. I simply saying “climate change” is used by people to create a narrative to accomplish certain goals politically. And i wouldnt go and build and arc just yet, because its many times blown WAY out of proportion, and eaten up by people that will belive anything they are told. And if there is ONE constant finding across all things scientific - its “we didnt know as much as we thought we did”..

Dig a little into the real origins of Facebook if you want some real enjoyment.

 

[WittHay]

No. He's comparing apples to oranges. Yes the slip joint pliers both have red grips but, the shape of the jaws are completely different and there's no mistaking the curved jaws of the classic 447G dykes.

First off although I didn't hear him say it in his video but, the MAC pliers are USA Made. Channellock made/makes pliers for MAC, Cornwell, and MATCO truck brands. The Doyles might have used those pliers as their inspiration but, they are by no means the same pliers. the guy in the video is an idiot.

However, if he was to compare the made in China pliers sold by Cornwell, Matco, and MAC trucks he may have a better argument aside from the ones on the truck are made in China, Peoples republic of whereas, Harbor Freight's Doyle pliers are made in Taiwan. Periodically, the trucks will have a 10 piece set of pliers in a black nylon bag. I often thought the bag was the best part of the special. He probably should have compared the PRC made Quinn pliers to the tool truck PRC made pliers. There are a lot of Chinese pliers available on a MAC/MATCO/Cornwell truck but, there are also rebadged channelocks and knipex too. It's your choice.
I haven't bought any Doyles yet but along with other newer offerings from Harbor Freight, they look to be a step in the right direction.

Its Sunday, so I am not going to comment on HF and China. I am a relatively new Mac customer last 4 or 5 years. Mac has rebranded US made Channellocks in most types and sizes. Retaining ring pliers are Imperial Stride and lock ring are Wilde both US made. They have a variety of rebranded Knipex and the newest pliers are made in France

There is always a deal on that 10 piece set with the bag. I can get cheap pliers any where dont have to get them from the Mac truck. Mac has about 4 sources for any common plier, so its hard to compare

 

[JBH]

When the full force of the Holocene Extinction hits, billions of those people who developed a taste for Coca-Cola will migrate to the global North after their cities become uninhabitable due to flooding, drought, heat and political unrest.

Then we let them in. It’s just not that hard to figure out for anyone who has a heart, a brain, and isn’t a white supremacist. The US is literally a country created for and by people fleeing calamities such as persecution and famine. Europe was effectively shaped by similar migratory forces as well.

As for pliers, I’ve only seen a few decent American made ones. Klein’s hybrid needlenose-combi is a nice all rounder. Generally, the good ones are made by Germans and Austrians.