Price vs. Quality

[denis4x4]

Ran across this in this morning's NYT:

http://bucks.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/04/striving-to-lead-more-of-an-heirloom-life/?ref=business

The second round of comments were really interesting.

 

[Falcon67]

I agree - a good tool is once thing because it'll put up with the abuse and very likely return it's investment in dollars saved on the job. But I'd rather wear a semi-cheap watch than a Rolex. Paid $150 for my Skagen and it damn sure better last a while LOL. It's holding up better than the Seiko it replaced, which was a $100 unit that got 6 band repairs before the 2 yr warranty ran out. And all kids shoes are high buck already - $50~100/pair, and there is no way a Nike is "heirloom quality".

 

[James E]

I think this is spot-on but only for certain items. Certainly not for fashion items.

Knives? Yes, if you can keep the SO from cutting celery on the granite countertops. Watch? Yes. My best buddy has an Omega that his Dad bought overseas when he was in the Air Force. It's his most treasured posession--and it's still a damn good watch.
Tools? Yes, if you use them.

 

[Steve from Socal]

I learned that from my father decades ago, most everything I have is "heirloom" quality.

The better quality things also often have the ability to be repaired with good levels of success.

The disposable society is a relatively new concept, the last couple of generations have been raised on it. Before that people bought things that were designed to last. Electronics and energy efficiency are two of the main culprits in developing this mentality. While these have made life nicer and reduced energy consumption by the end user, the total impact is another story entirely.

Steve

 

[Graymills - Craig]

Sound advice. My personal slogan is that cheaper isn't always cheaper.

 

[Jack Olsen]

Foolish to go 100% in either direction. Some things are going to be disposable no matter how well made they might be. Some things are going to give you a better return on investment if you get the kind you can keep forever. With tools, I've often bought a cheap version as a place-holder and then bought a really good version when I can get it second-hand. All of my Harbor Freight grinders have given way to Metabos that way -- when I could have never brought myself to buy a single Metabo at its retail price. Maybe it's a shortcoming. But I'm just too cheap.

With some tools, the quality is a factor only if you use it all the time. I have a lot of good clamps and a lot of crummy ones. Usually, it just doesn't matter to me which one I'm using. Clamps don't fail, really. But if I was clamping all day every day, the Wiltons might set themselves apart from the others. Hammers, too. I'm thinking about getting a nice Estwing for driving nails, but I probably won't do it until I'm up against a project where there will be hours and hours of hammering. For my ball peens and other little sledge hammers, Harbor Freight is just fine.

And drawing the line on 'I use it so much it matters' and 'I'm getting fixated on some kind of abstract ideal of quality' is tricky. Many of us are susceptible to making a kind of fetish of objects like tools (or watches, or cars) -- where we get obsessed with having the best of something simply because it's the best. I'm not sure this always makes sense. But everybody's got to work out for themselves exactly where that line is.

Still, things like smart phones and computers are going to frustrate you. Those businesses have figured out how to keep the target moving in front of us. Maybe that's why I prefer tools to other kinds of toys.

 

[shoturtle]

But they forget you can get quality at a great price as well. Tools are a prefect example. You do not need to pay a ton for a quality ratchet or sockets. Just look at the summer discounts of kolbalt and gearwrench tools. An educated consumer is the more important factor.

Watches, I totally agree when it comes to automatic and mechanical watches. Don't cheap out. The chinese movements are just not accurate. Looses or gain so it is always off. The quality movements will keep more accurate time. But for precision, a quality swiss or japanese quartz movement is the way to go.

So I would say a educated consumer can by quality are a great value.

 

[Cryptic1911]

There's a fine line in the middle somewhere.. you just have to be good at finding the price point where the best deal is for the best quality.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Many years ago I read a book titled "Quality is Free." It was mainly about how it's best to build things right in the first place, rather than cutting corners to meet deadlines or budgets.

Anyway, something that always stuck with me is how the book defined quality as "conformance to requirements". The example given (and this shows how long ago it was written) is that while a Cadillac Coupe de Ville was a luxury car and a VW Beetle was an economy car, both had high levels of quality for their intended purposes.

Here's another example: I wear my Dad's old Timex wristwatch from the 1950s. All I need from a watch is that it keeps good time and it's reliable; this one does both things, so as far as I'm concerned it conforms to the requirements and therefore it's high quality.

 

[zuk123]

I can buy much better quality, and still save money by buying used. I've outfitted my shop this way. Starrett, Browne and Sharpe, but at yardsale prices. Thousands of dollars in quality name stationary tools for pennies on the dollar.

The disadvantage to used is mainly availability when needed. I buy things I believe I will need, when I see them. But that means they may sit unused until needed.

I like Jack's phased "purchase if needed and upgrade when possible" approach.

It's important to me to spend more money on things with a lot of use, and less on the one offs, like a basin wrench. I may use it twice more in my life. Wrenches and hand tools that I use often should be higher quality and can cost more. Now if I was a plumber, I suppose a good basin wrench would be high on my list of must haves.

zuk

BTW, I found it interesting how so many of the commenters got distracted by the watch and pen example, and seemed to miss the whole point of the post because they could dismiss the 'luxury' aspect.

 

[benjamintmiller]

I'm a private pilot, so I need a reliable watch for flight plans, pilotage, and instrument work. Something I've noticed is that 99% of professional pilots -- guys who depend on their watch for their jobs -- have a $15 digital Casio watch.

Mechanical watches are a luxury item, whether they cost $100 or $10,000. Sure, some of them may keep better time or be easier to repair than others, but it's a bit disingenuous to suggest that any of them are a good value. We don't discuss the relative merits of abacuses while ignoring digital calculators here (I hope!)

All that said, there certainly are times when it's best to buy quality, and some of the earlier posts are spot on. Metrology tools in particular are a much better value if they're quality.

I mentally try to answer these questions with every purchase, tool or otherwise, and then purchase the least expensive thing that fits:
- how often will I use it?
- how durable does it need to be?
- will a used item offer the same utility for less?

 

[aafadca]

Foolish to go 100% in either direction. Some things are going to be disposable no matter how well made they might be. Some things are going to give you a better return on investment if you get the kind you can keep forever. With tools, I've often bought a cheap version as a place-holder and then bought a really good version when I can get it second-hand. All of my Harbor Freight grinders have given way to Metabos that way -- when I could have never brought myself to buy a single Metabo at its retail price. Maybe it's a shortcoming. But I'm just too cheap.

With some tools, the quality is a factor only if you use it all the time. I have a lot of good clamps and a lot of crummy ones. Usually, it just doesn't matter to me which one I'm using. Clamps don't fail, really. But if I was clamping all day every day, the Wiltons might set themselves apart from the others. Hammers, too. I'm thinking about getting a nice Estwing for driving nails, but I probably won't do it until I'm up against a project where there will be hours and hours of hammering. For my ball peens and other little sledge hammers, Harbor Freight is just fine.

And drawing the line on 'I use it so much it matters' and 'I'm getting fixated on some kind of abstract ideal of quality' is tricky. Many of us are susceptible to making a kind of fetish of objects like tools (or watches, or cars) -- where we get obsessed with having the best of something simply because it's the best. I'm not sure this always makes sense. But everybody's got to work out for themselves exactly where that line is.

Still, things like smart phones and computers are going to frustrate you. Those businesses have figured out how to keep the target moving in front of us. Maybe that's why I prefer tools to other kinds of toys.

I agree. There are times when you shouldn't buy the "best" just to have the best or most expensive. Personally I like to get the best "value" product when possible. At times this may be something relatively expensive or cheap.

 

[mking1865]

I was told, and must agree, that there's usually the cheap junk, the good value stuff, and then the expensive junk that's overdone just so people will spend all their money to get the most expensive thing.

And I agree that clothing doesn't always follow the get what you pay for scenario very well. $15 Wrangler jeans last about four times longer than $50 Levi jeans, an $8 pack of Hanes shirts last forever compared to $20 each printed shirts.

 

[E.T.Privott]

MONEY is made to spend, WOMEN were made to love, LIFE was made to live ! in other words... spend your money your way, spend your money on what you want, spend your money to suit your wants in life, cheap is fine for some things you might not care as much a bout if you lose or gets lost and the more expensive when you want to keep it forever and hope to hold onto. I'm just grateful I've got the chose.

 

[LutzTD]

best answer to improve quality. if it breaks, take it back. people accept low quality and low prices as if they are the same thing, but quality is a matter of design philosophy and manufacturing execution, low cost is a matter of competition. If people would take back faulty items or low quality items then the result would be better quality and low quality businesses going out of business, then competiton would bring the prices down to the realistic low price, which may not be the HF price, but it wouldnt be the SO price either, For a tool you only buy it once and you dont tear up what you use it on and you dont waste time with broken tools.