Primer coat really necessary?

[gsuhm]

Hi guys,

This forum has been a great find -- I've been reading it extensively the last month and have learned a lot! I recently bought a house with a 6-car garage (not a mansion lol, but a side-entry 2-car that the former owner added a front-entry garage onto that was 2 cars deep, making an L-shaped garage). Since I ride motocross, this was the dream garage for me! My plan is to make the original 2-car garage into a workshop that is so awesome that I dream about it driving home from work every day.

Of course, the first thing I need to do is get the floor done, but like a lot of people on this site, all this information makes for a lot of decisions. And unfortunately, putting epoxy down is pretty much permanent (or at least a major pain to re-do). So I've been in "analysis-paralysis" for too long. So I need everyone's help!

My workshop goals:

Light mechanical work/hobbies
Rebuild of motorcycles/dirtbikes occasionally
"showcase" look when not in use (I've bought a ton of Gladiator already)

I've attached a pic of the look I'm trying to achieve -- and I've narrowed myself down to 2 choices. Either epoxy-coat or Wolverine/Alphagarage. This is for doing a 475 sq feet 2-car garage:

$514 (assuming epoxy-coat still does free shipping for GJ members)
$950 - AlphaGarage/Wolverine

Assuming their material qualities are roughly the same, the biggest difference seems to be the use of a "primer epoxy coat" with Wolverine, vs. none with epoxy-coat. So I get an additional coat/roughly 10 mil thickness with Wolverine, at an added cost of $436.

I'm not against the added cost, but if the end result isn't that much different (given my intended use), I'd prefer to save the money for other things. Unfortunately, I won't know whether the primer really matters until it's too late. The main concerns would be

Looks/appearance -- does the primer make the finished result look better/more professional (everything else being equal)

Durability -- Will there be an noticeable difference between each approach 10 years from now, or is epoxy itself just so durable that it just won't matter? I want my install to last, but if the 1-coat is durable then I feel like I'm just wasting my money.

I also considered doing 2 endurashield top-coats to make it really glossy and durable, but the price came out to $1200, which was just too far out of my comfort zone, as I had a pro estimate for the whole job at just $1800 (including diamond grind of painted surface, which I ended up doing myself).

So is a primer coat with an extra 400+ dollars? All opinions welcome!

Garrett

 

[TheBanker]

This is probably a question to ask AlphaGarage and Rugerlady and let them sell you on the differences. I am wondering if you are using flakes and if that will be heavy flakes? If you are using heavy flakes then the base coat will not be seen very much. I picked epoxy-coat but I like the idea of 3 layers and the thickness of wolverine. I'm quite sure its a better and thicker product I just didn't want to pay for it. I was choosing between the box store stuff and 100% solids so I ended up moving "up" to epoxy-coat. If I had the budget I would probably have moved up again to Wolverine. Not sure if all this helps you.

 

[gsuhm]

thanks! Kind of my same line of reasoning. I did forget to mention the flakes -- my current though is around 10 lbs, 70% white, 20% grey and 10% black. Something to compliment gray/white walls (tile red floor).

I don't mind spending the extra money, if the value is there. That's the big question

 

[gabeancounter]

Just a another DIYer. I am sure you have read that according to some epoxy companies you need a primer to bond the epoxy to the concrete and epoxy-coat will tell you a single thick 100% solids coat is as good because you don't have to worry about seperation between coats. Solvent based products need two coats (primer) to get enough thickness and coverage. Just was not able to sell me on that being needed for 100%. 40-50% price diff was to much for my cheap a$$. The kit I bought of epoxy-coat will provide 30 mil thickness to my 800sqft. Kit was for 1250 sqft.
I think you will get the look with either product. Value is self perceived. Decision you have to make. You now have an opinion of a banker and an accountant.

 

[TheBanker]

haha beancounter, I didnt think about that but yes, the two cheap a$$ guys!

 

[gsuhm]

Did you guys even do the topcoat with epoxy-coat? They sell it (and it's $514 with it), but they claim it's not even necessary. I would like it shiny like that pic I posted though (and some base level of protection for the flakes)

I'm in Atlanta so I'm hoping to get this rolling before the pine pollen starts flying (may be too late LOL)....

 

[AlphaGarage]

Wolverine's system does recommend a primer coat, generally BondTite 1101. It's specifically formulated to adhere both chemically and mechanically, and it performs that task very well. In fact, it's used a lot to prime metals, like stainless steel.

If you do a thorough search on just this forum you'll notice something odd, there are some specific products that people people have applied, and they're happy with the results, but then yo will find others who have also prepped well, applied the same products, and a year or two later they report it's failing at the concrete/epoxy intersection - hot tire lift etc. Although failure between coats do happen, the weak link is usually at that concrete level, which is why pretty much every commercial and industrial coating manufacturer and application contractor recommends using a primer.

Fact is a really good primer will still adhere even if you missed something in the prep work. Although there are quite a few floors out there with LiquaTile in direct contact without any BondTite, and I haven't heard any reports of failures, for long lasting, durable results, especially on less than ideal substrates, we still strongly recommend using a primer coat.

The primer itself will not effect the look of the finished floor - initially. However no floor benefits if the coating lifts from the concrete - that's a bad look all around.

BTW - for 475 ft2 we spec 3 gallons of BondTite 1101 ($225), 4.5 gallons of LiquaTile 1184 ($375), and 1.25 gallons of EnduraShield 2254 ($195), total $795. The final dry thickness (not factoring in waste or absorption) would be about 29 mils (29.12421 for you engineers).

Now 29 mils is a lot more that our minimum recommendation, which is just under 21 mils. This is because of our available package sizes, due to minimum recommendations some size jobs just squeak into quotes with extra material than is absolutely needed. Although an extra hit to the pocketbook is never appreciated, fortunately a thicker coat is always a good thing, and will be appreciated should anyone in the family ever drop a particularly heavy item on the floor. This is a major home improvement project, you want it to look great not just the day after it cures, but for years, decades even. A chip out, or patch of lifting, next year will look just as nasty as one next week, so do it right the first time.

 

[gabeancounter]

Yes, I bought the top coat, but you can just use H&C Sheild crete - acrylic glaze. About $50 for a gallon that covers 400sqft. I am going to use the sheild crete on top of the clear epoxy just to give it a little extra chemical and uv protection. My product is going to be a little different and I hope to a review Monday. I am an hour east of Atlanta if you want to come watch this weekend.

 

[gsuhm]

Hi Fred, thanks for the reply. I do agree your base cost is $795, but think it was your "tile red" $150 upcharge and $100 shipping that got me to $950ish (epoxy-coat upcharge for tile red was $30 and shipping *I think* is still free for GJ members).

This particular application will never have "hot tire pickup" as it's my workshop off the main garage that actually has the vehicle parking.

 

[TheBanker]

I do not disagree with anything Fred says. I think you defently want a top clear coat no matter what anyone says. Especially if you put flakes.

 

[gsuhm]

that's interesting gabeancounter -- Did you ask the epoxy-coat guys if the H&C acrylic glaze is compatible or is it pretty much a non-issue once the epoxy has hardened anyway?

 

[thegarageguy]

You don't have to prime but what will most likely happen (if prepped properly) is you'll get alot of bubbling and craters from the epoxy drawing into the concrete.

It's always good practice to prime

 

[gsuhm]

what is different about the primer that would make it not bubble or have craters?

 

[tncatadjuster]

what is different about the primer that would make it not bubble or have craters?

Penetrating primers are designed to do just that. This fills the porosity and allows the following coats to stay on top. Second coats get's to stay on top with no bubbles.

 

[DzNuts]

Can the first of two coats be considered 'priming'? It sets up for 12 hrs (or whatever time is recommended) while the bubbles work their way up, and the next coat covers any imperfection that may have appeared.?