Pro wiring tip for the day: Wire nuts

[caseyjw]

We all know'em, they work. But the problem that I have with them, is they ****.

I have slowly but surely been eliminating these from my place of employment. The problem with them is that when you are using stranded conductors, the mere application of these little buggers damages the conductors 9 times out of 10. And then, most of the time, some part or another of the conductor is showing bare - so people will wrap them up with electrical tape. Have you ever tried to unwind electrical tape that's been in a large motor's junction box for a couple years? It's gross. It's messy. And then when you separate the wires, the conductors break and fall off so inevitably you have to cut back and strip new.

The solution? Awesome wire nuts.

These things fit up to 12 AWG and as small as 28 AWG, rated up to 600 volts, 20 amps, AND have a built-in test point. It's also got a strip gauge right on it so you get the right length, first try. The levers snap open, slide the wire in, snap it shut. You can remove one conductor and leave the other one totally connected, you never disturb the mechanical connection of the original conductor. Also the one you remove is preserved, so you don't consume precious conductor length on things like motor housings.

I know I sound like a salesman, but I love these things so much that I carry a handful of them around in my toolsack and whenever I see a wire nut I replace it with a Wago.

Check it out here, buy some here, and then come back and tell me how you like them

 

[Krokodil]

This look good. I'd be sure to get some for my next wiring job.

 

[brian90505]

Looks like a clean alternative to nuts.

 

[Greg-nwo]

Wow, those look so much nicer.

 

[Ironcrow]

Cool. I know Wago does all sorts of industrial automation components. But, are these OK per the NEC to wire my house?

 

[Professur]

Wirenuts aren't meant for stranded wires. You're supposed to use crimp sleeves for stranded.

 

[Identaltech]

We just had one of our major Dental equipment suppliers change over to these.
way faster to install and you can add another wire without disturbing the original connection.
love them!

 

[AussieDan]

These look very cool, found them a bit cheaper here

 

[caseyjw]

Thanks AussieDan!

Professeur you are correct, however unfortunately the average Wirenut Louie doesn't know that

IronCrow: I would suggest checking with your local building code inspector, I've heard nightmares about people who used crimp lugs to ground their junction boxes and they failed inspection just because the inspector had never seen them before.

 

[Jack Davenport]

Wirenuts aren't meant for stranded wires. You're supposed to use crimp sleeves for stranded.

Sorry guys but .....................
You are INCORRECT with this statement. The ideal industries website and the package will tell you the number and sizes of the conductors you can use the wirenut for.
http://www.idealindustries.com/media/pdfs/products/references/ideal_ul_listed_combinations.pdf

This website shows you that they are rated for solid and stranded wires. It states that at the top of each page.


As far as them not being good and leaving strands left exposed, that is not the wirenuts fault but rather a piss poor installation. A properly spliced wire will not leave exposed copper and will never need to have tape wrapped around it. Tape on a wirenut is a sign of a hack!

 

[GTO]

For $.30-.40 a piece,I'll stick with the wirenuts.

 

[Ironcrow]

IronCrow: I would suggest checking with your local building code inspector, I've heard nightmares about people who used crimp lugs to ground their junction boxes and they failed inspection just because the inspector had never seen them before.

Ha ha! Yeah, I'm pretty sure my inspector is going to say "WTF are these?" It would be nice to have manufacturer's specification, applications, UL, TUV, CSA, UBC, NEC reference...whatever documentation exisits to make my case....

 

[z28snksknr]

they look awesome and are most likely a superior choice over the wire nuts, but price wise, it seems a bit prohibitive to use these for large scale jobs.

 

[caseyjw]

As far as them not being good and leaving strands left exposed, that is not the wirenuts fault but rather a piss poor installation. A properly spliced wire will not leave exposed copper and will never need to have tape wrapped around it. Tape on a wirenut is a sign of a hack!

Agreed! However, in the world we live in - it's worth it to idiot proof things But let me ask you, after seeing this are you going to stick with wirenuts?

they look awesome and are most likely a superior choice over the wire nuts, but price wise, it seems a bit prohibitive to use these for large scale jobs.

On the contrary, when you are planning a large scale job it would be unwise to use any sort of wire nut at all, why would you use a wire nut if you didn't have to?

For $.30-.40 a piece,I'll stick with the wirenuts.

Yeah but amortize that out for 20 years, everytime a ballast goes out in a flourescent light fixture, everytime you have to replace a motor, etc... the cost difference is negligible

Of course these are all my personal opinion,

 

[nate379]

Exactly.

I have been using wire nuts forever and sorry but it is either use of cheap wire nuts, the wrong size nut, or operator error that leads to problems.

Sorry guys but .....................
You are INCORRECT with this statement. The ideal industries website and the package will tell you the number and sizes of the conductors you can use the wirenut for.
http://www.idealindustries.com/media/pdfs/products/references/ideal_ul_listed_combinations.pdf

This website shows you that they are rated for solid and stranded wires. It states that at the top of each page.


As far as them not being good and leaving strands left exposed, that is not the wirenuts fault but rather a piss poor installation. A properly spliced wire will not leave exposed copper and will never need to have tape wrapped around it. Tape on a wirenut is a sign of a hack!

 

[Professur]

Sorry guys but .....................
You are INCORRECT with this statement. The ideal industries website and the package will tell you the number and sizes of the conductors you can use the wirenut for.
http://www.idealindustries.com/media/pdfs/products/references/ideal_ul_listed_combinations.pdf

This website shows you that they are rated for solid and stranded wires. It states that at the top of each page.


As far as them not being good and leaving strands left exposed, that is not the wirenuts fault but rather a piss poor installation. A properly spliced wire will not leave exposed copper and will never need to have tape wrapped around it. Tape on a wirenut is a sign of a hack!

I'll agree with you about the exposed copper, but as for Ideal ... or any other rating .... They can rate them all they want. A rating means 'good enough' for the job ... not Best for the job. Best for stranded is crimp. Fin.

And I'll add yet another caveat to that. A threaded wire nut might be acceptable on stranded ... provided the strands are thicker than the threads are deep .. by at least 2-1.

Understand .. electrons don't flow through the middle of a wire, the follow the perimeter of it. When a wirenut bites into a solid copper wire, it's not seriously impinging on that surface area.

 

[walrus]

Agreed! However, in the world we live in - it's worth it to idiot proof things But let me ask you, after seeing this are you going to stick with wirenuts?

,

yes, go on mike holts forum if you want to hear horror stories about Wagos

Its funny that someone would say Tape on a wire nut is the sign of a hack, awhile back their was a poster that said not using tape is the sign of a hack, TF
I tape wirenuts in the housing of motors all the time, I must be a hack

 

[Jack Davenport]

I'll stand by my statement
Taping wirenuts is a waste of tape and unprofessional.
Ever have to open one of those taped up wirenut messes?
If you are afraid that the wirenuts you just installed is going to come off or loosen up - you have installed the wrong type of termination !
Smaller motors I used wire nuts larger motors I used split bolts.
I will stick to wirenuts.
Everyone screams about "back stabbing conductors into the little holes in the back side of a receptacle but then the same people want to use stab in connectors instaed of wirenuts. Go Figure.

 

[caseyjw]

I'll say it again, show me a wire nut that you can put on and off 5...6 ... 7 times without damaging the conductors and I'll switch... and I don't mean just spin it off and back on, i mean separating the two wires and adding new ones

 

[rockwithjason]

I'll say it again, show me a wire nut that you can put on and off 5...6 ... 7 times without damaging the conductors and I'll switch... and I don't mean just spin it off and back on, i mean separating the two wires and adding new ones

i do it daily with regular old ideal wire nuts. in our department the mere mention of the word wago will get you a dressing down and actually using them may get you fired. personally i love the cheap *** contractors that use wagos because they have made me buckets of money over the years by burning up, falling apart and generally sucking.

 

[sk farmer]

interesting thread. a friend of mine is an industrial automation salesman. mostly air but also some robotics and electrical and structural. wago is one of his lines and he has slipped me a few of those. the seem nice for ease of assembly and for things that need to be changed often. i was never aware of him having to deal with any of the issues spoken of. i will have to ask him.

 

[Ironcrow]

I went to look at this Mike Holt website and get the same thing there as I do here. People either love them or hate them. Some say they are perfect. Others point to burning up and falling apart.

Are the Ideal knock-offs worse than the real Wagos? Have either of them been improved since introduction? Newer ones better? Who knows?

I did see lots of reference to using Wagos (generic term) for lighting ballasts and can lights (presumably facilities guys in industrial environment) and fewer comments from residential contractors (usually mentioning less skilled electricians making houses cheaply).

 

[nate379]

If you are doing below more than a few times over 20 years I would have to question the quality of the fixtures being used. I normally buy the cheap Walmart lights and they seem to be good for 4-5 years of daily use.

Even if the wire is chewed up a bit, it's not hard to snip 1" off the end, re-strip and reinstall the wire nut

Yeah but amortize that out for 20 years, every time a ballast goes out in a fluorescent light fixture, every time you have to replace a motor, etc... the cost difference is negligible

 

[reinhardt]

as a small note on the electrical tape on wirenuts- i work in ship repair, and it is good practice to tape the nuts so they don't vibrate loose. before y'all beat me up too much, they aren't used often on ships. but when they are, it is good practice to tape them so they wont vibrate loose.

 

[CUSTOMMANCAVES.COM]

Are the Ideal knock-offs worse than the real Wagos?

I have a melted one I keep on my work-bench to show people. If I remember, I'll post a pic later. I still use them for "low-voltage" wiring jobs, but will not use them for "regular" voltage installations.

 

[CUSTOMMANCAVES.COM]

as a small note on the electrical tape on wirenuts- i work in ship repair, and it is good practice to tape the nuts so they don't vibrate loose. before y'all beat me up too much, they aren't used often on ships. but when they are, it is good practice to tape them so they wont vibrate loose.

On the RARE occasion when I have to use a wirenut on a boat or automobile, I use heat-shrink tubing to secure/protect the open end.

 

[caseyjw]

The plant that I work in has hundreds of 8' flourescent light fixtures, and close to 100 rotary vane vacuum pumps, you'd be surprised how often they need to be changed out in a manufacturing setting - and if you keep cutting off 1" of wire each time you do it... you will be in trouble in short order

I will take pics the next time I replace a nut with a wago

Regards,
Casey

If you are doing below more than a few times over 20 years I would have to question the quality of the fixtures being used. I normally buy the cheap Walmart lights and they seem to be good for 4-5 years of daily use.

Even if the wire is chewed up a bit, it's not hard to snip 1" off the end, re-strip and reinstall the wire nut

 

[msmith]

Understand .. electrons don't flow through the middle of a wire, the follow the perimeter of it. When a wirenut bites into a solid copper wire, it's not seriously impinging on that surface area.

WTF? If that were true, which it isn't at 60 Hz, they would make the wire hollow to save copper.

 

[caseyjw]

WTF? If that were true, which it isn't at 60 Hz, they would make the wire hollow to save copper.

Actually, he is correct. And so are you.... in a way.. but I think the cost increase of making hollow copper conductors would prohibit any material savings.

Skin effect is the tendency of an alternating electric current (AC) to distribute itself within a conductor so that the current density near the surface of the conductor is greater than that at its core. That is, the electric current tends to flow at the "skin" of the conductor, at an average depth called the skin depth. The skin effect causes the effective resistance of the conductor to increase with the frequency of the current because much of the conductor carries little current. Skin effect is due to eddy currents set up by the AC current. At 60 Hz in copper, skin depth is about 8.5 mm. At high frequencies skin depth is much smaller.
Methods to minimise skin effect include using specially woven wire and using hollow pipe-shaped conductors.... More

Best regards
Casey

 

[msmith]

I'm aware of skin effect at high frequencies, but 8.5mm skin depth at 60 Hz effectively means there is no skin effect with A/C power wiring in any wire smaller than 19mm in dia. (3/4 inch). In other words, it's a non-issue.