problem with ceiling cans

[greenbikemike]

Here's the problem,2 cans in ceiling,2 switches,1 at each end of the room.Everything's been fine for 12+ years,now,went to turn on lights,nothing.I have power to switches ,tried new bulbs,replaced switches,nothing.Then I got a meter and put probe to center of socket and one to side of socket,nothing,probe to center and probe to side of can,light! so......?something with the neutral?what the hell am I looking for here,not sure would could cause this.Any idea's are more then welcome....thanks,
Greenbikemike

 

[JACDes]

sounds like this is a 3-way set up?

A switch failed or wire came loose at a switch or the first can light on the 3 way circuit
you can loosen the car housing to get toe j-box to check them

But I would start by testing the switches... power going in.. power going out.

 

[greenbikemike]

sounds like this is a 3-way set up?

A switch failed or wire came loose at a switch or the first can light on the 3 way circuit
you can loosen the car housing to get toe j-box to check them

But I would start by testing the switches... power going in.. power going out.

I replaced both switches and have good connections...so.....it has to be in the cans......and I can't pull the cans down to check.....I put a wood ceiling in over the cans...bad move on my part.I can get to them from the attic....pain in the *** to get at.

thanks

Greenbikemike

 

[Mustang51js]

You can get to the connections without going in attic also,usually there's 3 screws on the inside of can and once removed you can take can down and access the wires. Prob neutral came loose over the years

 

[teamextreme]

You lost a neutral. Has nothing to do with the switches. Since all lights are out, not just some of them, you either lost the neutral at the very first light, or more likely, at the switch box or even upstream of that. Find where power originates for this switch arrangement. It is likely in one of the 2 switch boxes, but also could be at one of the lights. Are there white neutral wires wire-nutted together in one of the boxes and not landed on switch terminals? If so, open that wire nut and test for voltage from hot to that neutral. Depending on what you find there, continue troubleshooting accordingly.

 

[greenbikemike]

You can get to the connections without going in attic also,usually there's 3 screws on the inside of can and once removed you can take can down and access the wires. Prob neutral came loose over the years

Thanks,but not on these cans,it has a box that sticks out from the can,its an IC can,

You lost a neutral. Has nothing to do with the switches. Since all lights are out, not just some of them, you either lost the neutral at the very first light, or more likely, at the switch box or even upstream of that. Find where power originates for this switch arrangement. It is likely in one of the 2 switch boxes, but also could be at one of the lights. Are there white neutral wires wire-nutted together in one of the boxes and not landed on switch terminals? If so, open that wire nut and test for voltage from hot to that neutral. Depending on what you find there, continue troubleshooting accordingly.

Thanks,I kinda figured it has something to do with the neutral,got in the attic yesterday,can't find anything wrong,but l didn't check for voltage,I had the power off and just checked all the connections....all good at can box and switches.....so I haven't done any electrical work in the house since I put the cans in about 12 years ago.I did add 220 in the shop and was in the panel this summer,I'll give that a look,maybe something in there,otherwise,I'll start buy'n candles.....

Thanks again
Greenbikemike

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Do you have a picture of the inside of the cans?An open neutral will normally show 60-70 volts when you check the circuit.

 

[Mustang51js]

Do you remember what brand they are, haven't seen any recessed lights where you couldn't access them from below the ceiling. Did you undo the wirenuts and retighten

 

[Elginz]

My vote would be a wire nut on the first or second neutral connection. There are several ways to run a three way circuit, so I can't say just where the problem is. I would start at the first switch box and determine if the is voltage between the hot and neutral. I would not worry about the cans until I know there is power/neutral from the power supply (breaker box) on though the switches.

 

[greenbikemike]

Do you remember what brand they are, haven't seen any recessed lights where you couldn't access them from below the ceiling. Did you undo the wirenuts and retighten

Do you have a picture of the inside of the cans?An open neutral will normally show 60-70 volts when you check the circuit.

My vote would be a wire nut on the first or second neutral connection. There are several ways to run a three way circuit, so I can't say just where the problem is. I would start at the first switch box and determine if the is voltage between the hot and neutral. I would not worry about the cans until I know there is power/neutral from the power supply (breaker box) on though the switches.

Thanks for the replies,I haven't had a lot of time to work on this,but here's a couple of pics.of the cans,\.As you can see,I installed a wood ceiling OVER the lips of the
cans,bad move on my part,so I can't the pull cans,so went up into attic and checked the connections,all seem good,but,I lost my multimeter in the insulation up there,so,I'm on hold till I find it or buy another one.

 

[greenbikemike]

Update....found this....wire had broke from this but had stayed attached to the top of the can under the "clip",but what is it?



this is on the top of the inside of the can,looked good and seemed like it was attached,



I tried touching the wire to it,but it didn't work. I checked and it does have continuity....now what.Any and all replies welcome.

Greenbikemike

 

[stealthmagic27]

That's a thermal protector I believe, figured it would have been that. Bwut weird you still have nothing...

 

[Elginz]

That would just make that one can not work. Thermal protector I believe also. It would reset after it cooled down. It could be that has nothing to do with the original problem and detached on pulling the socket out of the can. Find the last place there is power coming from the breaker box, that means start it the first place and work out, looking for power between the hot (black) and the neutral (white).

 

[teamextreme]

Elginz is correct. That is a thermal protector, and it would only shut off that one light. Probably a coincidental separate problem.

 

[Mustang51js]

Can you follow the wire back,they were added after sheetrock so wires should be somewhat accessible,seems like you have an issue from the switch up

 

[landyacht]

Quick question. Did you do anything at all to your house before the problem started. No matter how unrelated it may seem. While a splice can and often will fail on its own due to age, generally 90% of the time something changed. You put in a new receptacle in another room in a different part of the house, and bam your lights stop working. I just had that exact service call the other day. The guy was sure he'd changed nothing, until his wife reminded him a day before he noticed his basement lights had stopped working he'd changed an upstairs bedroom light fixture. Turns out the neutral splice upstairs opened, and while that light still worked, the feed to the basement was now disconnected. Just something to consider.

 

[greenbikemike]

Thanks for the replies,I ve been over everything a couple of times,nothing I can find I have power and the only thing I've done is add 220 to the shop this summer.I did check everything in the main box and alls well.
It is in the netural,but where,I have no clue. I haven't had a lot of time lately to figure it out,got a very sick friend that I'm helping,so its not the top of the list,but thanks all,I ll get it.........someday!

Thanks,
Greenbikemike

 

[Milton Shaw]

I would recommend using a non contact type voltage checker on the neutral and see if there is voltage on it. They work great for checking circuits like you are involved in where there are several places things could be wrong including all the way back to the main box. If there is a voltage showing on the neutral then the neutral is not connected to neutral keep checking until the neutral is dead.

 

[RECox286]

Animals also like to chew on wires, especially if the

insulation is made from rice. Security systems suffer

the most from this problem, but I've seen romex gnawed

too. Keep an open mind; **** happens.


Uncle Bob

 

[Mustang51js]

Need to find the problem if it is the neutral, a loose neutral is what causes fires most of the time,because it heats up without tripping the breaker. If it's just the lights not working and you don't use them then you are ok,but if it's in an outlet you could have some problems

 

[greenbikemike]

Animals also like to chew on wires, especially if the

insulation is made from rice. Security systems suffer

the most from this problem, but I've seen romex gnawed

too. Keep an open mind; **** happens.


Uncle Bob

I was thinking that maybe some damn critter chewed on something,but haven't seen any sign of that....or little critters! and I know all about **** happens.....story of my life....
thanks

Need to find the problem if it is the neutral, a loose neutral is what causes fires most of the time,because it heats up without tripping the breaker. If it's just the lights not working and you don't use them then you are ok,but if it's in an outlet you could have some problems

I've got the breaker shut off just to be on the safe side....I've been too busy lately to get back to it....but thanks for the reply

greenbikemike