Problem with my epoxy floor

[nm2]

Hi,

Excuse me for my english, I'm french... so maybe that I will difficulty to explain you my problem !

Place = bedroom on basement
Product = Epoxy 100% solid (ratio 3:1)
Qty = 1.30 gallon for 196 ft2

Day 1:
I grinded with diamond disk my floor to remove paint(old 10 year ago).
Result: Direct on concrete !

Day 2:
Remove with SHOPVAC 6HP, with hose direct on floor all dust....
Result: Perfect JOB

Day 3 (yesterday):
Apply Epoxy with Squeegee, and back rool !
Result: Perfect JOB, as a mirror and no toque (or no little mountain).

Day 4 (today):
Examine a result.... effect mirror again but with many little toque as photo !
Result : I'm disappointed....

Why does these toques appeared while curing(drying) about 20/ft2 (20 by square foot)?

I have another bedroom to do... what I have to do to avoid this ?

 

[Garage Flooring]

Hi,

Excuse me for my english, I'm french... so maybe that I will difficulty to explain you my problem !

Place = bedroom on basement
Product = Epoxy 100% solid (ratio 3:1)
Qty = 1.30 gallon for 196 ft2

Day 1:
I grinded with diamond disk my floor to remove paint(old 10 year ago).
Result: Direct on concrete !

Day 2:
Remove with SHOPVAC 6HP, with hose direct on floor all dust....
Result: Perfect JOB

Day 3 (yesterday):
Apply Epoxy with Squeegee, and back rool !
Result: Perfect JOB, as a mirror and no toque (or no little mountain).

Day 4 (today):
Examine a result.... effect mirror again but with many little toque as photo !
Result : I'm disappointed....

Why does these toques appeared while curing about 20/ft2 (20 by square foot)?

I have another bedroom to do... what I have to do to avoid this ?

May I ask what product did you use and did you use a primer?

 

[benwah]

Can't tell if outgass or debris... If those bumps were not that after the first coat, I would guess debris, hard to tell.

 

[nm2]

May I ask what product did you use and did you use a primer?

For brand I don know, because I bought from a Chemical local Cie that they bought to VRAC quantity and fill to 5g, 1g or or pint !

Last year I tested another brand with a little sample: CTMAdhesive, I noticed t a same problem ... bulble while curing(drying) !


I did'nt use a Primer !
I apllied Epoxy directly on concrete !

What primer can I use ?

Note that my Chemical local Cie don't sale a primer !

 

[nm2]

Can't tell if outgass or debris... If those bumps were not that after the first coat, I would guess debris, hard to tell.

I dont believe that this is debris... this appeared while curing(drying) !

 

[nm2]

Can't tell if outgass or debris... If those bumps were not that after the first coat, I would guess debris, hard to tell.

I just tested.... I cutted with an exacto knife one toque, and I noticed that this toque is empty... So I believe that is a air bubble !

Do you have a suggestion for my next bedroom ?

 

[benwah]

For your next bedroom, use a penetrating epoxy primer that is compatible with the epoxy you are using to broadcast your flake into. Apply the penetrating primer as the concrete slab temperature is going down (evening/night). Inspect the floor before applying your next coat.

 

[nm2]

For your next bedroom, use a penetrating epoxy primer that is compatible with the epoxy you are using to broadcast your flake into. Apply the penetrating primer as the concrete slab temperature is going down (evening/night). Inspect the floor before applying your next coat.

I will call on many store to know if in Quebec exist this primer.
For temperature, with a lazer thermometer, it at 21 degre Celsius or 70 Farheneit !

Thanks

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

That looks like out-gassing. Try a primer as the others recommended.
Very common issue.

 

[thegarageguy]

could be debris from not cleaning well enough....typical though....screen and clear coat and it will look great. There is no such thing as an epoxy floor without imperfections.

 

[nm2]

That looks like out-gassing. Try a primer as the others recommended.
Very common issue.

For my second bedroom, can I use a Epoxy paint (oil base) as a primer ?
Later, after one day or two, I would apply a 100% solid ?

Thanks

 

[12ozd]

For my second bedroom, can I use a Epoxy paint (oil base) as a primer ?
Later, after one day or two, I would apply a 100% solid ?

Thanks

Use an epoxy primer - not an oil based paint.
Check the instructions on the product, generally 24 hrs, is the maximum time to re-coat.

 

[nm2]

Instead apply a Primer, if I grind my floor, and wait one month to apply Epoxy, does a out-gassing will be completed ?

 

[Garage Flooring]

Instead apply a Primer, if I grind my floor, and wait one month to apply Epoxy, does a out-gassing will be completed ?

No. You still need to prime

 

[nm2]

I forgot to mention that I have installed a fan in my window to evacuate the odor outside of my house before applying the epoxy !
Does this EXHAUST-FAN would be a cause of my problem ?

 

[Jaguar Fan]

First, your English is great.

Second, I do not believe the exhaust fan is a cause of the problem.

Third, with regard to the temperature of the slab, there are two separate things to be aware of:

(a) the absolute temperature of the slab. You report the slab is within the appropriate range - that is, it is not to cool, and it is not too hot

(b) during every 24 hour period, the temperature of your slab will be increasing during part of the day and cooling during part of your day. It is possible that you applied the epoxy during the part of the day when the slab was increasing in temperature. If so, the warming of the slab will cause the slab to "outgas", which caused the small toques (we usually call them bubbles). If you had applied the epoxy in the evening, it is possible these bubbles would not have happened.

For your next room, I suggest applying the epoxy when the slab is cooling. On my garage project, I applied all coats between 9pm and 2am to ensure the slab was not in a warming phase.

Regarding primer, I suggest you go to the company from whom you purchased the epoxy, and ask them for a copy of the PRODUCT DATA SHEET and a MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET. Read the product data sheet. My guess is it will give you the information about priming the slab. In my case, I could use either a penetrating primer sold by the manufacturer of the main coat, or use the main epoxy product itself as both a primer and then a separate main coat.

Do you plan on applying a clear polyurethane on top? Epoxy products tend to get "yellow" and to "chalk" when exposed to ultraviolet light. A good polyurethane product can have ultraviolet light inhibitors mixed in by the factory to protect the underlying epoxy.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

A fan can be a problem if it is directed close to the floor surface while coating is curing.
This can cause the top to skin before the rest, trapping any gas that is trying to escape.

We always kill any fans until the curing is well underway.

 

[nm2]

A fan can be a problem if it is directed close to the floor surface while coating is curing.
This can cause the top to skin before the rest, trapping any gas that is trying to escape.

We always kill any fans until the curing is well underway.

Was near of ceiling !
I will know for my next bedroom !

Thanks Scotty !

 

[nm2]

(b) during every 24 hour period, the temperature of your slab will be increasing during part of the day and cooling during part of your day. It is possible that you applied the epoxy during the part of the day when the slab was increasing in temperature. If so, the warming of the slab will cause the slab to "outgas", which caused the small toques (we usually call them bubbles). If you had applied the epoxy in the evening, it is possible these bubbles would not have happened.

For your next room, I suggest applying the epoxy when the slab is cooling. On my garage project, I applied all coats between 9pm and 2am to ensure the slab was not in a warming phase.

After that I read your message I verified temperature today to know how my SLAB is.... (no sun today as a day that I applied)

1:00 PM = 69 to 70 degre
2:30 PM = 69 to 70 degre
5:00 PM = 69 to 70 degre
(edited) 8:30 PM = 69 to 70 degre
(next day)
(edited) 8:20 AM = 69 to 70 degre

Note that I applied at 00:30 PM !

For my next Bedroom, is it a good idea to install a heater to keep my SLAB at 75 degre one day before, and turn off this heater 1 hour before applying ?

Thanks Jaguar !

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Outgas does not always happen because of rising/cooling temps.
It happens mostly because you are placing the equivalent of maple syrup over a porous surface. The slow heavy syrup falls into the small pours in the surface. As it slowly falls to the bottom of the pore, the air in the pore gets pushed up.

If you had used a primer, the air would push right through the thin primer and gone forever. But you are using maple syrup and it is getting hard very quickly too. It skins on top first, trapping everything below the surface.

The air cannot escape fast enough to push through and it creates a little hump or maybe a bubble, sometimes a volcano. A primer will help prevent this.

 

[Shea]

Outgas does not always happen because of rising/cooling temps.
It happens mostly because you are placing the equivalent of maple syrup over a porous surface. The slow heavy syrup falls into the small pours in the surface. As it slowly falls to the bottom of the pore, the air in the pore gets pushed up.

That's the best layman's description I've heard yet for this scenario. I've tried to explain this before, but this one is so easy to understand. Kudos!

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Sorry for the food reference. Pancakes move me.


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[Jaguar Fan]

Sorry for the food reference. Pancakes move me.

That's odd; usually prunes & bran muffins move people.

 

[Jaguar Fan]

After that I read your message I verified temperature today to know how my SLAB is.... (no sun today as a day that I applied)

1:00 PM = 69 to 70 degre
2:30 PM = 69 to 70 degre
5:00 PM = 69 to 70 degre
(edited) 8:30 PM = 69 to 70 degre
(next day)
(edited) 8:20 AM = 69 to 70 degre

Note that I applied at 00:30 PM !

For my next Bedroom, is it a good idea to install a heater to keep my SLAB at 75 degre one day before, and turn off this heater 1 hour before applying ?

Thanks Jaguar !

Your slab temperatures are exceedingly stable, so that is not the issue.

Using a primer sounds like the best bet.

One other thing: consider getting a spiked roller (porcupine roller)like the one in this picture. The spikes are very stiff plastic & their purpose is to "pop" any bubbles. I didn't need to use one in my own installation, but I bought one just in case.

See this video :

 

[nm2]

One other thing: consider getting a spiked roller (porcupine roller)like the one in this picture. The spikes are very stiff plastic & their purpose is to "pop" any bubbles. I didn't need to use one in my own installation, but I bought one just in case.

Does this type of roll replace a normal roll ?

Can I use a Sqeege to spread out epoxy and use this roll to equalize or does this roll is for remove bubbles only ??

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

This is for bubbles only and frankly is a like a fire extinguisher for installers. I have only had to use these with SL coatings as they are super-thick. Again, if primed correctly, not whipped up with your mixer and laid at reasonable temps should not need this.

 

[nm2]

Again, if primed correctly, not whipped up with your mixer and laid at reasonable temps should not need this.

Right,

Yesterday I apply on floor (18"x18") a first layer(thin) of epoxy water 50% solid to use as Primer !
This morning I apply a second layer epoxy 100% solid !!!

No bubbles additional appeared while curing... so your solution will be a best !

But I have another problem, my roller created mini-mini bubbles while application... impossible to prevent !

My 100% epoxy is really thick (heavy) !

Note that I use a quality roller nylon for EPOXY/GLUE !

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Wow, how thick are you spreading this material?
Sounds like you might be laying too heavy.

You should spread it with a 1/8" notched squeegee and back roll with a 3/8" nap roller, generally. The squeegee helps you meter it out to the correct thickness.

If you are content with the thickness, than a tined roller is a way to release any bubbles.

 

[nm2]

This is for bubbles only and frankly is a like a fire extinguisher for installers.

Does this item on ebay (20$) doing a JOB as extinguisher to do my living room and my second bedroom ?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121398788397?

Thanks

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Not sure. The good ones are 100.


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[nm2]

Wow, how thick are you spreading this material?

For 195 ft2 I used 5.4 liters(mixed) or (1.42 gallon US) or (1.18 gallon Imperial) ! Was OK ?


I used a squeegee not notched with roller nylon NOUR 3mm (1/8") with Phenolic Core ! Was OK ?


Here video (15 second) demonstrating the consistency of my Epoxy Part-A (no mixed)

 

[nm2]

Here a video (3minutes) the creation of bubbles 1 hour after the application (no primer), you will notice that many bubbles appears and disappears !

I did this same test with PRIMER (no bubbles appeared), so don't need a video for this !

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Looks normal. We use 3/8" sleeves.


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[nm2]

About these bubbles !

I forgot to say you that when I build my floor (11 years) while February, exterior temperature was 5 degree fahrenheit ... A Cie Mixing Concrete added a few purcent of Calcium in Mixer Truck to prevent freeze and Accelerate hardening (usually to Quebec)!

This is law to Quebec when temperatue is lower at 34 degree fahrenheit !

My question is:
Does this calcium in my floor could be one possible reason of these Bubbles creation on my floor while my 100% Epoxy curing ?

Thanks

 

[sducotey]

could be debris from not cleaning well enough....typical though....screen and clear coat and it will look great. There is no such thing as an epoxy floor without imperfections.

I just finished my two coat (colored and clear) garage floor. Color coat did have some air bubbles but I back rolled and they didn't come back. Clear coat was applied at 8am in the morning which could have lead to my problems of bubbles and imperfections as shown in these pictures. I didn't see them until later that day they were all over, and too late to do anything about them. I'm using the Epoxy-Coat product. I decided to reorder and reapply the clear coat. I will learn and do it in the even hours. I do live by Houston so the temperatures do increase during the morning hours.

My question to you is that you said to screen and apply a clear coat. Can you explain what you mean by screen? I was going to sand the floor to rough it up and to do some leveling. I've used a chisel to remove the tall bubbles.

I will say I was really surprised that this happened on the second coat. Epoxy-Coat said that I could have over mixed it or over rolled it.

Love the forum!

 

[Shea]

Use an 80 grit sanding screen that you purchase separately and attach to a floor buffer. You can usually rent a 17" floor buffer from Home Depot or your local tool rental company.