Problematic Proto Ratchets

[scottguehne]

Hey guys. I recently picked up a 1/4 and 3/8 Proto round head ratchets. I love these things. With two pawls inside, I get the equivalent of a 90 tooth ratchet. The swing arc on these are tiny. I love the handles too. I thought about getting a set of Craftsman round heads, which I already have a long 1/2" flex head, and I like it. The only thing I hate about the craftsman round heads is that they put the speeder ring on the wrong side of the ratchet (the drive side, as opposed to the back side). I also already have a box full of nearly all craftsman tools, so I wanted to try something a little different. Ya know what they say, variety is the spice of life. Well, there is one place both of my new Proto ratchets fall short. The retaining ball in the driver. The 1/4 isn't so bad, but the 3/8 is awful. I got these ratchets for the same price as craftsmans, but I got them off of ebay. I knew they had been discontinued, so I also knew these ratchets were NOS. I also figured they were probably shipped in bulk from the manufacturer, so I expected some cosmetic wear, which they both have. But I didn't expect the ball retainer to be positioned where it is. I thought maybe proto sockets have a different ball retainer depth, but I doubt it. Do you think I got the Proto outcasts, that were deemed too defective for normal retail, but not defective enough to warrant throwing them back into the melter? Tell me what you guys think. I just contacted Proto, they said that model was discontinued in 1984! So, needless to say, Proto was no help.

 

[krusty the clown]

i would think all mfrs put the detent ball the same depth for interchangability so it's most likely a defect.

are those 45 tooth ratchets? just having two pawls doesn't make them 90 tooth. it just gives more strength.

 

[scottguehne]

The ratchets are 45 toothed. What makes them equivalent to having 90 teeth, is that there are two SETS of pawls inside. Each pawl set has 2 pawls. These pawls are timed, so that when one pawl is halfway through it's stroke, the other is engaged. The two pawls are never engaged at the same time. One pawl splits the other's stroke to the next tooth. This is how double pawl round heads achieve the 4 degree swing arc.

 

[bchee]

that ball does look pretty close to the end. I saw those ratchets on ebay and was going to get one. Some others on here said they were pretty rough considering it's a fine tooth ratchet. Does yours have high drag? I may have sent this same question in an old pm to you.

The weird thing is that the ball doesn't look THAT far off from center, but when you put the socket on it, it's really really noticeable

 

[MAD]

are those 45 tooth ratchets? just having two pawls doesn't make them 90 tooth. it just gives more strength.

On the Easco/Danaher double paw round head ratchets the paws are offset from each other so they alternate tooth engagement. This halves the reverse stroke with 90 clicks/gear positions for 45 teeth.

Krusty is correct that not all two paw ratchets work this way. I dont know about the Proto. I think some of them used a straight 60 tooth design.

 

[wrenchr]

Those are still made!!!! stanleyproto.com

 

[paramudduck]

Dang someone found some old old old stock in the warehouse. Have you tried other brands of sockets? Craftsman has had some odd detent problems in their sockets as well.

 

[bchee]

here's a dumb question - those newer Craftsman sockets have the double detents - is the ball pushed only into the first detent?

 

[HandyManny]

The ball doesn't look too bad. If you're unhappy then try finding rebuild kits for both. Generally a rebuild kit will not be that expensive. It would take care of the problem. Proto should still warrant these ratchets even if they have been dicontinued, they should replace them with something equivelent. Never this problem with my Proto ratchets.

 

[scottguehne]

The socket is fully on the ratchet. The deeper of the two detents is on the ball retainer. I noticed that there were two detents too. Although the first detent isn't much of a detent, as there is nothing to keep the socket on. That first detent has no "back" to it. It is hard to explain, and the camera I have is not nearly good enough to show a picture of the two detents in my craftsman sockets. That is all I have though, craftsman sockets, so I have no other sockets to compare it with.
Proto says they don't warranty tools. Lady on the phone said I would have to warranty it with the retailer. As far as getting a rebuild kit, I would be concerned that this is just the way they were all manufactured. If anybody knows where to find a rebuild kit, I'll happily check it out.

 

[back2class]

Mail it to Proto in Conyers, GA for a replacement. They WILL warranty them.

 

[HandyManny]

Oh yes they do. Proto does warranty hand tools. The lady you spoke to is full of it. I'd ask to speak to her boss. They have a warranty statement on their page. As an FYI I also use a lot of Craftsman sockets on my Proto ratchets and breaker bars and do not have the problem you photgraphed.

All my Craftsman sockets fit just as good on my Proto ratchets as all of my Proto sockets do, no difference. I can only speculate that 1984 was around the time that Stanley bought both PROTO and National Hand Tool Co. and was moving production together, meaning moving production of Proto tools to be made at the National Hand Tool facility in Dallas, TX. Maybe a first run screrw up at NHT and a final production for that particular model.