Problems with neighbors and garages?

[yeldogt]

How big are the lots to allow a 40x40 garage ?.. that's large in any kind of residential area.

My current project has a large outbuilding -- back in the 90's the previous owner added 800sf to the existing 900 sf structure built in the 50's It's two building -- looks like an old barn. I would never get approval for the second building addition today if not already there. The building conforms -- but all the setbacks and percentages (built) of the lot do not. It's too close to the line -- too much impervious for lot ... and no way to do water management.

 

[verbalkint99]

We have an HOA rule that states no RV's on the property for more than 24 hours. A neighbor down the road asked if they could keep it in the driveway for the weekend for repairs and to ready it for the season. All the neighbors were fine with it in the area, but they still got a nasty letter from the HOA saying there was a complaint and what the fines would be if it stayed.

It has a happy ending though. The road is maintained by the municipality. As such, they are allowed to park the RV in the road indefinitely and the HOA can not do a thing about it. Our half of the HOA is supportive (we want guidelines, but not draconian dictatorships) so I am kind of looking forward to the drama...lol

 

[Falcon67]

got her lawyer involved and basically made it so I can add 20 foot of depth ,which would make it right at 40' .... a

She didn't need to do that - you're not going to get a variance to exceed the stated limits unless you have neighbors with garages that already exceed the published guidelines. If you are the first, you have no basis for "hardship" which is the usual source to ask for remedy. She likely just saved you the hassle of scheduling a meeting with the zoning board and being told "no".

 

[mgbbob]

I just built a 35' x 24'. The maximum size allowable was 900 square feet. That is about as close as I could get. I did need a ruling on allowing a 4' encroachment into the side yard set back. The City reviewed the situation and would have actually allowed 7'. I stuck with 4' and was happy. It all took about a month but that is part of the deal. I would have loved some additional square footage but as someone said...Cities have rules. I can certainly live with 900 square feet. Go with what you can and be happy.

 

[johnnyradiant]

there seams to be one in every neighborhood.

Some of us would be happy if there was only one.

 

[GrayFlattop]

This thread brought back memories...

Almost 30 years ago I went into our local building department and applied for a permit to build a 24' x 54' detached garage. Based on lot size and setback requirements this was a conforming application. At the time the Building and Zoning department did not have a full-time manager, so the village manager denied the permit. When I asked why, he said "It's too big". I reviewed the drawings with him and the zoning ordinance that applied and he said he would review it and get back to me.

The very next village board meeting, a temporary ordinance change was voted in to restrict construction of any garage larger than 576 square feet without a zoning variance. Long story short - the process of going to zoning hearings, board meetings, plans, drawings, etc managed to push the process back by a full year. The only way they would issue me a permit was if I limited the size to 24' x 40' AND I had to have a restriction recorded against my deed that prohibited the garage from being used for an auto repair BUSINESS. Silly stuff really since the prevailing zoning would have restricted that use anyway. and I had no intent of opening a repair shop - I wanted a woodworking shop in the back half.

Fighting it would probably have taken more time, would have cost more money and I may not have been able to even get a larger than 24' x 24' garage built if I pushed harder. So I gave in.

Depending on the local permitting authority, they will either be a breeze to work with or be a thorn in your side. I was always the model neighbor - fixed-up a century-old eyesore into one of the nicest houses in the neighborhood. Nice landscaping, the works.

It didn't matter.

The kicker was, after the village board elected to issue a permit after the meeting one of the board members was overheard saying, " I wish I could build a big garage like that". I think it just came down to a bit of jealousy combined with a suspicion that I was going to be dishonorable - or be a nuisance.

jerks.

So. I guess I'm just sharing this story to commiserate with you and also to point out that if the local government doesn't want you to do something - for whatever reason - they just may stop you.

And a bit of an introduction to myself. Longtime lurker recent poster.

 

[ford33]

I don't think the neighbor was being difficult. They were within their right to oppose the larger structure and they did.

Did you ask why they opposed it? If not, it sounds like you didn't do anything to help the neighbor understand why you needed a larger structure. You could have offered some assurances to them or offered some services they could benefit. Instead you wanted a variance and offered nothing in return to the neighborhood.

Next time work out a win-win situation. This is basic 101 negotiation strategy.

 

[yeldogt]

We have an HOA rule that states no RV's on the property for more than 24 hours. A neighbor down the road asked if they could keep it in the driveway for the weekend for repairs and to ready it for the season. All the neighbors were fine with it in the area, but they still got a nasty letter from the HOA saying there was a complaint and what the fines would be if it stayed.

It has a happy ending though. The road is maintained by the municipality. As such, they are allowed to park the RV in the road indefinitely and the HOA can not do a thing about it. Our half of the HOA is supportive (we want guidelines, but not draconian dictatorships) so I am kind of looking forward to the drama...lol

We have no RV/ sailboats/ jet skis --- no trucks with lettering allowed .. I'm fine with that.

 

[BikerDad]

We have no RV/ sailboats/ jet skis --- no trucks with lettering allowed .. I'm fine with that.

THAT'S so frickin' wrong it's not funny. It sounds like they don't want any of those people, you know, the ones who actually work with their hands, living in the neighborhood.

 

[PNWguy]

THAT'S so frickin' wrong it's not funny. It sounds like they don't want any of those people, you know, the ones who actually work with their hands, living in the neighborhood.

If everybody knows the rules before they buy the house, then who cares. I've never understood why people complain about CC&Rs and HOAs. It's not like they are a secret society that appears when you try and do something; all the rules have to be written down before before you buy or rent.

 

[GRB]

THAT'S so frickin' wrong it's not funny. It sounds like they don't want any of those people, you know, the ones who actually work with their hands, living in the neighborhood.

Well I think you are completely wrong. I certainly have no issue with people that work with their hands and have FAR more respect for a craftsman than a businessperson.
In an environment where your neighbors are close, vehicles belong IN garages, who cares if they have lettering on them and we have hundred of vehicles with lettering and company logos at WORK. Different environment. It's respectful of your neighbors to leave your stuff out of sight, if its vehicles, trash cans, whatever. DO unto others as you would have them do unto you.......

I have had a number of different houses and for 20 years chosen to live NOT in an HOA even though I was president of the HOA in a former house. When you buy a house in an HOA, you have the CC&Rs in front of you BEFORE you buy the house. If you buy it and then think you can do what you please, you will have problems. They have advantages AND disadvantages. Make a choice but accept the consequences of your choice, good and bad.

 

[keith5064]

I offered plenty to the neighborhood, there's 2 houses, one is abandoned and one is a dilapidated pos, and the other which is right next to my neighbor complaining is an old mansion than is just sitting there because the 2 guys that bought it can't afford to keep it up, so they just left town....Ive already cleaned up my property in one month of being there more than the whole neighborhood has in 10 years...I'm gonna put up a nice new building that will be presentable to the community...also as far as rv's go we are allowed to have them as long as they are on some sort of rock/gravel/paved driveway.

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[keith5064]

I forgot to mention since I'm attaching to a previous garage I can only add 20 foot depth wise, now I would have enough room to leave a foot in between ( and not attach the two)and add another 40 foot long building in the exact same spot....

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[tdkkart]

A friend ran up against an ordinance scuffle, realized that the ordinance only mentioned footprint, and didn't mention how many or how tall. Yep he did, built 2 buildings side by side, and one tall enough to be an "RV garage", not a thing they could do about it, and they still haven't changed the ordinance today.

I've been in 3 houses so far, done all kinds of stuff, built cars, dyno'd 2 cycle engines, worked on motorcycles etc etc, never had a complaint, probably because I keep things reasonable just out of respect.
The current neighbors can go piss up a rope if they have a problem, in 9 years none of them has even made the effort to introduce themselves to me.

 

[Falcon67]

Word up if going to ask for a variance - do NOT mention "hot rods", "car repair" or anything else that would immediately equate to noise or side business type activity. Say "storage" - misc junk, big toys like a boat, maybe travel trailer, etc and maybe "hobby" like making cutting boards for your wife. Just about everybody's garage is jammed with stuff and their cars in the driveway, so storage is an easy whiff.

 

[GRB]

Keith,
Does sound from your latest post that you are improving the neighborhood. Perhaps the cleanup needed to come first and the additions later after the problem neighbors saw the positive results. There are some people that will find fault with certain things.

I don't bring my WSB RC51 home and fire it off in a quiet upscale neighborhood even though half the neighbors would think it was great. I think it is the best sounding motorized vehicle ever but only in the right place.

 

[yeldogt]

THAT'S so frickin' wrong it's not funny. It sounds like they don't want any of those people, you know, the ones who actually work with their hands, living in the neighborhood.

Everybody has an ascetic limit -- drive down some neighborhoods w/ all manner of work trucks... boats on trailers ... huge RV's. No thanks ... Many towns in the North East have these restriction .... not HOA. Township ordinances.

No one complains for a day or so --- it's the same with signs. We don't don't allow contractor signs for more than a week w/o permit. keeps everything neat

 

[Makoto]

im blessed to have cool neighbors. the guy on the side of my shop with the compressor is a car guy and certified awesome mechanic (he trains people on how to fix metro buses in houston) so nobody ever complains even when i forget to shut the compressor off sometimes.

I think you know the play here. in general, just be cool and don't go grinding in your driveway all the time at 1am expecting nobody to be annoyed.

HOA's are what people need when they are sucky neighbors which is why HOA's are generally terrible ideas and run by crappy people. ours is pretty chill about stuff but most people I know aren't blessed like that. probably because we're in one of the oldest neighborhoods in the area.

I look forward to the day when HOA's are ruled as the unconstitutional tyrants they actually are.

 

[jetnow1]

always read the rules carefully. My town has a rule that the middle of the rafter cannot be
higher than 15 feet. No one in the zoning office could tell me where that is measured. I
went back to the zoning regulation and found it measured from the tip of the roof to the
end of the rafter, so a two foot overhang bought me another foot of height at the middle
and two feet at the peak( 12/12 pitch).
The zoning officer was not real happy but when I showed her their regulation there was nothing they could do.
Another time I bought a lot with an existing foundation. The foundation had been poured 12 years earlier, in the mean time the town passed a zoning ordinance that you could not build a house within 30 foot of wetlands, one corner of the foundation was 29 feet. A year of fighting with zoning and appeals and they board told me I should have read the regulations before I bought it. I told them I agreed, but they could be sure I had read them now, and they allowed an accessory building to be right up against the wetlands. Told them if I had to build elsewhere on the lot I would leave the foundation
where it was and use it as my dog pen, and all the waste would just wind up in the pond. They gave me the variance.

 

[Richie Rich]

So far my neighbors have been cool. I live down an easement so I have neighbors all around me. One has a 30x50, another has a 30x40 and another has a 30x30 2 story. So yeah, they don't care.

I am in the midst of building right now. One of my neighbors sent us flowers and a card congratulating us on breaking ground, another is letting me store some of my vehicles in her driveway, a few others have insisted on getting a tour when it is done.

Only issue I have run into so far is that city code states that outbuildings cannot exceed 50% of the sq footage of the primary dwelling. Even though I have a 1/2 acre lot, my house is small so the best I could do was a 20x24. No limit on attached structures so I went with a 950sqft "addition" to the front of my existing garage.

 

[PNWguy]

Only issue I have run into so far is that city code states that outbuildings cannot exceed 50% of the sq footage of the primary dwelling. Even though I have a 1/2 acre lot, my house is small so the best I could do was a 20x24. No limit on attached structures so I went with a 950sqft "addition" to the front of my existing garage.

I'm so glad I don't have that rule to deal with; my house is going to be about 1,000 sq ft. The shop will be 2,000.

I live on 5 acres, out of sight of everything.

 

[Wes Tex]

This is all good reading. I moved to an older home facing probably the busiest five lane street in town. My lot is surrounded by an alley on two sides with a neighbor on the remaining side. The property already had a 20 x 40 covered RV shed along one alley side. I tore out the floor of the shed and poured a 30 x 40 foundation and built a new garage/shop. Everything was permitted and built to city code. I had no complaining neighbors at first. I do love to work on cars and follow all the unofficial rules such as no night work that requires any cars to run, no grinding at night, etc. The first time I unloaded a drag car (with mufflers) on a Saturday afternoon a new to the neighborhood neighbor went crazy. The police were called, but the responding officer was much more interested in the car than the complaint phoned in by the neighbor's wife. After two or three more police visits (middle of the afternoon), things have settled down. I still occasionally do have to run the car to load it, but no more police visits the past few years. The real noise in the neighborhood comes from the motorcycle races down the street between midnight and 3:00 AM. Best advice: Be sure everything is permitted by the city before you build anything.

 

[RandyRanderson]

Heh, neighbors...

Mine are so far away they look like dots on the horizon.

I'm outside (waaay outside) city limits on 100+ acres. No codes, permits, or hoa out here.

 

[ford33]

It's disheartening to read some of the posts here. Some examples provided clearly show people who have lost the ability to be civil with others or feel the need to make a situation worse when someone makes a simple request. Arrogant are these people.

For example, if asked to reduce noise during a golf tournament, which often raises a lot of money for a local charity, causes someone to be offensive to participants, then they have serious mental health issues. This is not someone to be idolized.

People who have the skills to assist a neighbor with lawn equipment, help with a house repair, take in someone trash can when they are away or are willing to listen or give advice when asked are respected in their neighborhood. Neighbors will overlook much when they realize they benefit from that person being part of their community. A zoning variance would be met with less opposition if people knew the content of your character.

The ability to be civil and work with others to reach a consensus is now lost in Washington DC and is becoming less so in our communities. It is folly that people complain about lack of progress by our government officials but act similarly in their neighborhood.

 

[nes999]

This is why I'm glad to live somewhere that doesnt require permits. When I built my garage I went to pull permits. The guy said "what for"

"A garage"

"Soooo build it"

"No permits"

*laughs* "no"

I think I could build a big pink phallus in my front yard and no one would say anything. They need me more than I need them.

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[StingRay]

I think he was told to keep it down and commented that if they'd asked nice he'd have had no problem. Wanna bet he picks up golf balls off of his property all the time. My experience is that golf courses aren't generally very good neighbors.

For example, if asked to reduce noise during a golf tournament, which often raises a lot of money for a local charity, causes someone to be offensive to participants, then they have serious mental health issues. This is not someone to be idolized.

 

[cjarvis]

OP is to be commended for his concern for his neighbors and their 'hood. That said, it appears that the old biddy lawyered up right off the bat. That's a declaration of hostile intent, and civility, IMO, went out the window.

When the lovely wife and I built our house, one of our requirements was that the covenant allowed for outbuildings.

I went with a 24x30. (wish I'd done 24x40, but I can add later) I could have built as large as 2400 sf, but I want a yard...