Progress: custom perma-columns

[gjbuilder]

There's been a few threads here about compressive, axial load and engineering aspects of perma-columns - thanks for the help and answers there.

I had two problems though that were more mundane:

1. My existing poles are rough-cut 8x8

2. My poles go down 8 feet (we live two miles from the San Andreas fault and our barn poles are 12' OC)

So I am happy to report that Midwest Perma Column, in Illinois, is able to create 7' long perma columns that are 9" on each side.

I think we'll chop most of the poles at 6" above grade, so we'll have 6.5 feet in the ground.

One of our poles which is rotted 3-4 feet up (don't ask) will require a different solution - probably a 10' long section of 8x8 square tube @ 3/8 thickness, but that's just one pole.

Thanks again for the help and advice - I'll try to get some pictures up next week.

 

[rieferman]

Glad to hear it!

Remember that at the bottom of each post hole you will have a poured footer.. basically acts as a snow shoe to prevent the perma-column from sinking into the ground. So, if you already have an 8 foot hole, you would fill so that you leave 6.5' remaining, and then your perma-column sits on that.

Also, perma-columns are really heavy. The company I worked for had a modified mover's hand truck for moving them around - basically instead of a solid platform at the bottom of the hand truck, they had a notch cut out where the perma-column could slide through. Get next to the hole, tip, allow perma-column to slide into hole, man handle it to final position, brace, backfill.

(As a side note: This all would be easier to follow, and more useful to future searches, if we kept it one thread. From here on out, please try to stick with one thread if possible.)

 

[jdieter]

How are the holes dug next to a wall and with existing pole 6" above grade?

 

[rieferman]

Since new pole is presumably going where old pole was, hand digging is an option - theoretically much of the digging is already done and just needs to be cleaned up. As you get deeper, extended handles and bending the end of the shovel is required. I've watched this process and it is as brutal as it sounds.

If power augering (which will be wayyyy faster and easier) you would remove exterior sheathing and girts in the area to be dug, dig, replace girts and sheathing.

 

[gjbuilder]

Since new pole is presumably going where old pole was, hand digging is an option - theoretically much of the digging is already done and just needs to be cleaned up. As you get deeper, extended handles and bending the end of the shovel is required. I've watched this process and it is as brutal as it sounds.

If power augering (which will be wayyyy faster and easier) you would remove exterior sheathing and girts in the area to be dug, dig, replace girts and sheathing.

Well, the plan is ... and I am open to critique ...

We have a mini-excavator here for this job and we can attach long drill bits to it, so what we will do is take a 8 or 10" drill bit (I think they are 5' long) and just drill 4+ holes all around the outside of the existing poles. Then we hand dig the last few feet of the pole out and when we pull it out of the ground, we should have a (roughly) 2-3 foot diameter hole in the ground.

So we can get a lot of digging done with the big auger and then just hand dig out the bottom foot or two of the old pole.

I really hope that once we get spun up we can do two of these per day. That is, dig out two poles simultaneously on opposite corners of the barn, drop in the perma-columns, pour in the concrete, and let it cure overnight and then move onto the next two ...