scooby074
Well-known member
Stall-wheel??? 
Project Farm Ratchet Test 2, Electric Bugaloo
- Thread starter scooby074
- Start date
I have 3 Nepros ratchets. They are very nice. I especially like the 1/4 Nepros
I just watched it. To my surprise the Ko-Ken didn't perform as well as people say their ratchets do. The Stahlwille did surprisingly well, however people with experience will still tell you to avoid it due to the screwless design. Another surprise was the Hazet actually making it to 400 Nm given how many bad reviews there are. I expected the square to break off much sooner.
The thicker handles on some of those ratchets, prevents them from working as advertised, they bump against the wooden stops a few degrees earlier than the ones with thinner handles. (But then the Koken with quite a thick handle, proves my hypothesis wrong). How curious.
It's a nice video and I think he tested quite a wide variety now. Has to be said that these are new ratchets and the backdrag will change over time, usually ratchets get lighter after they're used for a while.
Ultimately, it's still just one ratchet per brand. As we can see, there was even a huge difference between the two Gearwrench ratchets. So it is safe to assume some other ratchets from the same brands can perform a lot differently. For example, Koken has a lot of different designs and I think their low tooth versions are the most well known for the low backdrag (and the Z series for the low head profile and size).
I have a 1/4" nepros. The backdrag is certainly impressively low. Compared to my old ratchets, it is quite amazing. I also have a 1/2" Snap On dual 80. Sadly hard to compare directly, but I assume a 1/2" nepros would have a smaller head and a more balanced feel due to the hollow handle.
My 3/8" Wera metal zyklop has the most backdrag out of those. But a very slim head.
My vintage Husky/New Britain has even more backdrag, but it's really smooth considering how old it is. Also got some older Unior ratchets that are typical European ratchets - low tooth count and quite rough mechanism. But they do the job.
I'm surprised the Snap On Zero ratchet snapped when overloaded. I totally expected it to slip long before that happens.
Ultimately, it's still just one ratchet per brand. As we can see, there was even a huge difference between the two Gearwrench ratchets. So it is safe to assume some other ratchets from the same brands can perform a lot differently. For example, Koken has a lot of different designs and I think their low tooth versions are the most well known for the low backdrag (and the Z series for the low head profile and size).
I have a 1/4" nepros. The backdrag is certainly impressively low. Compared to my old ratchets, it is quite amazing. I also have a 1/2" Snap On dual 80. Sadly hard to compare directly, but I assume a 1/2" nepros would have a smaller head and a more balanced feel due to the hollow handle.
My 3/8" Wera metal zyklop has the most backdrag out of those. But a very slim head.
My vintage Husky/New Britain has even more backdrag, but it's really smooth considering how old it is. Also got some older Unior ratchets that are typical European ratchets - low tooth count and quite rough mechanism. But they do the job.
I'm surprised the Snap On Zero ratchet snapped when overloaded. I totally expected it to slip long before that happens.
humpty
Well-known member
Ok, these are minor complaints, I think Todd does a great job and he does listen to suggestions and makes his experiments less farmy and more sciencey.
One complaint was throwing the clutch Snappy in the group, I know it will never be apples to apples but why throw a vegetable in a test of fruit? I better test would have been an all pawl test and a all clutch test. Then a battle royale of the top of each.
Second, I agree with the above about the handle size. I am curious if it really does hamper the score like it appears?
And lastly, IMHO, it still come down to how it feels in your hand, it might be the "best" ratchet ever but I won't use if it doesn't feel right to me.
Good video though.
One complaint was throwing the clutch Snappy in the group, I know it will never be apples to apples but why throw a vegetable in a test of fruit? I better test would have been an all pawl test and a all clutch test. Then a battle royale of the top of each.
Second, I agree with the above about the handle size. I am curious if it really does hamper the score like it appears?
And lastly, IMHO, it still come down to how it feels in your hand, it might be the "best" ratchet ever but I won't use if it doesn't feel right to me.
Good video though.
toolenthusiast
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2017
- Messages
- 723
Why? When you’re standing in the tool aisle at the big box store or standing in front of your ratchet drawer, you don’t say to yourself “I need a 3/8 drive dual pawl ratchet”. You say to yourself “I need the ratchet that will let me me take bolt x out of part y on machinery z so I can finish this job”.
This.
I see so many comments, you can't compare 14.4V snap-on to 12V M12 or 18V vs 24V. Why? If they are advertising to do the same thing.
You either buy one or the other to do the same job.
humpty
Well-known member
I see your points, I guess it just seemed odd to have just one be different than all the others.
I think it is more "fair" to test like for like. But I agree if the one platform states hey I'm just as good as the other than "fair" doesn't have to be a factor.
I think the other thing I didn't consider was Todd didn't say the test was what is the best 80 tooth ratchet, it is just best ratchet, so it there doesn't have to be any specific criteria, I think he tries to have diverse price points represented. It also isn't a "best brand" test, it is a test of the models selected.
I think it is more "fair" to test like for like. But I agree if the one platform states hey I'm just as good as the other than "fair" doesn't have to be a factor.
I think the other thing I didn't consider was Todd didn't say the test was what is the best 80 tooth ratchet, it is just best ratchet, so it there doesn't have to be any specific criteria, I think he tries to have diverse price points represented. It also isn't a "best brand" test, it is a test of the models selected.
CGarage
Well-known member
No one is mentioning that the strength of the GearWrench is quite good for the 120XP model….
This is the 120 tooth ratchet design.
This is the 120 tooth ratchet design.
No, it's a 60 tooth ratchet with dual pawls, big difference.
Chrome Vanadium Cody
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2021
- Messages
- 663
I have that crescent ratchet purchased as a cheapo to finish a project while away from home/shop and it has performed much better than I expected. Cool to see it do well in testing here.
CGarage
Well-known member
Isn’t it the 120XP model???
MarcSeattle
Well-known member
I don't understand the emphasis on peak torque. Last place in the torque test was 180 lb-ft, which is the typical maximum torque for a DIN M16 fastener -- a bolt with a 24mm head. Show of hands: how many would use a ⅜ ratchet with a 24mm socket rather than a ½" ratchet?
I suppose there might be situations out there where some third-rate engineer designed enough access for a 24mm socket but not the width of a ½ ratchet head, and there isn't enough swing room for a breaker bar. May they burn in hell....
I suppose there might be situations out there where some third-rate engineer designed enough access for a 24mm socket but not the width of a ½ ratchet head, and there isn't enough swing room for a breaker bar. May they burn in hell....
I guess he's trying to show the guardband over normal use, but I agree that after a point it becomes pretty meaningless.
General Geoff
Well-known member
Some people just want the strongest ratchet possible. There are certainly some circumstances where nothing larger than a 3/8" drive ratchet will fit, and there's not enough space to swing a breaker bar to break loose a stubborn fastener that far exceeds optimal tightening torque under ideal circumstances.
vavet
Well-known member
I can't imagine Todd is not a member here, but he obviously has a low profile alias. What do you think his GJ username is?
Exactly. I have a Matco 3/8" ratchet that's the same form factor as a 1/4" ratchet. It's saved my **** many times where access is tight.
The destruction tests I find amusing though it doesn't sway me to get on a fastener that would require the next size up in tools. Arc swing and backdrag have appeal for me with strength a lower priority. I'm not using the 1/4" on lugs or suspension. I've used the 3/8" on lugs and smaller sized suspension areas though they are within their usage range there. Tight access is why I'd like to good small 1/4" or 3/8 with low backdrag. The water pump bolts on Toyota product isn't high at 12-18 ftlbs so not pushing the limits there.
Houdini5150
Well-known member
Does he have an affiliate link in the description for the winner?
he seems like the type of dude that would have registered as "Todd"
I like the angle test. It's not idea since the location of the blocks is somewhat arbitrary. If they were further forward some of the fat handled ratchets may have done better. What I like about it is the way it penalizes slop in the ratchet. A 32T ratchet with zero slop may still work better than a 120T ratchet with 7* of slop before the teeth engage.
The arc test is a bit problematic. Like many Project Farm tests, it's showing a data point and it's up to you to decide if it reflects something important.
HOWEVER, it seems like you could design the jig to limit travel closer to the head - that way you could separate whether the performance relates to a ratcheting mechanism with too much slop versus a handle that's thick.
Handle thickness would be a factor in some situations, so the combination test depicted here is valid. However, a good ratchet mechanism on a thick-handled ratchet would still have performance advantages depending on where the obstruction was. It would be nice to know which ratcheting mechanisms work well aside from which ratchets have thick handles.
HOWEVER, it seems like you could design the jig to limit travel closer to the head - that way you could separate whether the performance relates to a ratcheting mechanism with too much slop versus a handle that's thick.
Handle thickness would be a factor in some situations, so the combination test depicted here is valid. However, a good ratchet mechanism on a thick-handled ratchet would still have performance advantages depending on where the obstruction was. It would be nice to know which ratcheting mechanisms work well aside from which ratchets have thick handles.
Have a link to the discussion on the lack of screws? I'm curious what the issue is.
Yes, which is 60 tooth with offset pawls to click one then the other. Which is why they say 120XP instead of 120 tooth.
Maximum tightening torque has little relation which how rusted solid a bolt head is to what it's mated against. I've broken a extra long 3/8" ratchet on a 17mm hex head bolt - because i should have been using a 1/2".... and breaker bar. But still. Book spec tightening doesnt = loosening effort 20 years later.
Old German forums, multiple threads (you can find them on werkzeug-forum and motortalk for sure). I'd have to dig them up myself. I can sum it up in 2 words tho: plastic bad!
oldmachinenut
Well-known member
P.T. Barnum
That was a fun video to watch. The torque until failure tests are pretty extreme. My 3/8" tools lead a cushy life by comparison. If I have to really put some weight into a faster, the 1/2" drive breaker bar makes an appearance.
Probably the most useful info to me is the back drag.
Probably the most useful info to me is the back drag.
It's not actually a huge factor. It's not zero but it's likely less than 5% impact.
Quick release ratchets?
I use ratchets almost daily. Don't much care about quick release one way or another. If I have a lot of nuts/bolts in a couple sizes to deal with, I usually set up several ratchets/sockets so I don't have to keep switching sockets. Harder to misplace a socket on a ratchet than a loose socket.
www.garagejournal.com
Good point. I'm not breaking 3/8" ratchets much - I switch tools when that becomes a concern. Instead of ranking them by failure load, it's probably reasonable to conclude that all the ratchets were strong enough for the forces you apply by hand.
If you're the sort of person who puts a cheater bar on a 3/8" ratchet instead of sizing up, maybe your ranking differs.
MarcSeattle
Well-known member
I agree on the backdrag, and for me slop is important. It's not that I spend my days working in confined spaces where swing angle is narrow. It's just that ratchets with play feel cheap and we like things that are well-designed and well-machined.
I've been intrigued by the Ko-ken and Nepros ratchets because of all the comments I've read about swiss-watch feel.
That's also why I most often reach for my 20 year old Facom ⅜" 72 tooth round-head. I like the smooth action and it feels as precise as an old watch.
Thanks but I don't read enough German to work my way through those forums haha. I guess I'm missing out on how they designed the ratchet that is the issue.Old German forums, multiple threads (you can find them on werkzeug-forum and motortalk for sure). I'd have to dig them up myself. I can sum it up in 2 words tho: plastic bad!
dnschmidt
Well-known member
This is what I always had against Client Graphics. I don't give a **** how much abuse is needed to destroy something designed to be used at 1/3 the torque required for failure. I never abuse tools so the idea itself irks me. Size, backdrag and feel far exceed whether it can be used with a jack handle attached in my evaluation of ratchets. Everybody talks about the low backdrag of Koken ratchets. Have you ever used a Pittsburgh Pro HF ratchet? They have very, very low backdrag yet I see no love for them here on GJ although I've seen a lot of these ratchets used in pro shops.