Project Farm Ratchet Test 2, Electric Bugaloo

[General Geoff]

Have you ever used a Pittsburgh Pro HF ratchet? They have very, very low backdrag yet I see no love for them here on GJ although I've seen a lot of these ratchets used in pro shops.

The guys using Pitt Pro ratchets are too busy getting **** done to sing their praises to a bunch of anonymous strangers on the interweb

 

[dnschmidt]

Stall-wheel???

I guess that's how they say it down on the farm.

Actual pronunciation is Stahl-vill-a (three syllables and short a sound at the end.

 

[dukefx]

It's not actually a huge factor. It's not zero but it's likely less than 5% impact.

Quick release ratchets?

I use ratchets almost daily. Don't much care about quick release one way or another. If I have a lot of nuts/bolts in a couple sizes to deal with, I usually set up several ratchets/sockets so I don't have to keep switching sockets. Harder to misplace a socket on a ratchet than a loose socket.

www.garagejournal.com

Compare a Hazet 1/2" HiPer regular vs QR: the difference based on their own data is 17% and that's at a company that gives a damn. Expect differences in the 20%+ range. Weakening the weakest link even further isn't a good idea imho.

 

[F-22]

I guess that's how they say it down on the farm.

Actual pronunciation is Stahl-vill-a (three syllables and short a sound at the end.

It's Stahlwill-e not Stahlwill-a. Unless the a in English is pronounced as e in German, but I don't think it is? This is always confusing for me to think about as a foreigner

 

[Sumboodie]

My Dad would probably butcher it worse. My vizsla is a "zebra"

Then there's clornox, armand all, John Baldacci (ex governor) was that f-ing Kubota (no idea!)

 

[dukefx]

It's Stahlwill-e not Stahlwill-a. Unless the a in English is pronounced as e in German, but I don't think it is? This is always confusing for me to think about as a foreigner

This reminds me of the video where local company representatives pronounce their car brands properly. Like Mazzarati is pronounced by an Italian woman. There's a version where when it comes to Ford the pronounciation is "a huge pile of dung". We really need a tool version of it. I'm kinda tired of hearing Stihl as "still" instead of "shteel".

My Dad would probably butcher it worse. My vizsla is a "zebra"

Then there's clornox, armand all, John Baldacci (ex governor) was that f-ing Kubota (no idea!)

Now I wanna hear you say vizsla with proper Hungarian pronunciation

 

[F-22]

This reminds me of the video where local company representatives pronounce their car brands properly. Like Mazzarati is pronounced by an Italian woman. There's a version where when it comes to Ford the pronounciation is "a huge pile of dung". We really need a tool version of it. I'm kinda tired of hearing Stihl as "still" instead of "shteel".


Now I wanna hear you say vizsla with proper Hungarian pronunciation

I saw a video by Knipex US about how it is pronounced, and they said it as Kuh-nipex. It was really strange to me since it's not pronounced in that way in German either, the "k" sound has no "uh" to it. It's more like the "k" sound in the word "clover plant".

 

[AdAstra]

I saw a video by Knipex US about how it is pronounced, and they said it as Kuh-nipex. It was really strange to me since it's not pronounced in that way in German either, the "k" sound has no "uh" to it. It's more like the "k" sound in the word "clover plant".

I saw that "kuh-nip-x" video and was surprised at how wrong it sounded, then I looked and found a previous video of their CEO at the beginning of some talk saying it the way a typical German would ("khnee-pex").

I think their marketing department just caved and accepted/embraced the non-German way of saying it, but I doubt it actually changed how the German employees say the company name.

 

[dukefx]

I saw a video by Knipex US about how it is pronounced, and they said it as Kuh-nipex. It was really strange to me since it's not pronounced in that way in German either, the "k" sound has no "uh" to it. It's more like the "k" sound in the word "clover plant".

Yes, even the reps tend to pronounce it like Germans would say Könipex. Strange.

 

[Citation]

Compare a Hazet 1/2" HiPer regular vs QR: the difference based on their own data is 17% and that's at a company that gives a damn. Expect differences in the 20%+ range. Weakening the weakest link even further isn't a good idea imho.

Do you have that data? I provided my reasoning based on the difference in torsional stiffness/yield of a bar with a hole vs without. What do you think is wrong with my calculations?

 

[dukefx]

The rated values are right there on the product pages. You take 2 identical ratchets, one with QR, one without. Divide the 2 values and you get how much better the non-QR is.

For example:
1/4":
863HP: 120 Nm (~20% better)
863HPS: 100 Nm

3/8":
8816HP: 400 Nm (~17% better)
8816HPS: 340 Nm

1/2":
916HP: 1000 Nm (~17% better)
916HPS: 850 Nm

I've also seen a video on YT once where the difference was night and day but no idea what it was about (other than including such a test) so I can't find it.

 

[Citation]

The rated values are right there on the product pages. You take 2 identical ratchets, one with QR, one without. Divide the 2 values and you get how much better the non-QR is.

For example:
1/4":
863HP: 120 Nm (~20% better)
863HPS: 100 Nm

3/8":
8816HP: 400 Nm (~17% better)
8816HPS: 340 Nm

1/2":
916HP: 1000 Nm (~17% better)
916HPS: 850 Nm

I've also seen a video on YT once where the difference was night and day but no idea what it was about (other than including such a test) so I can't find it.

That's their rating. If they want they can claim QR is rated at just 1/3rd as strong. Alternatively it may be based on some other change. It doesn't mean the true difference are reflected in the ratings.

The physics don't support the claim that the QR hole grossly reduces strength. In my linked post I explain why and show the math. Torsional strength is greatly affected by diameter. The material near the center just doesn't contribute that much. I'm sure my estimates aren't perfect given I assumed the anvils were round. The square shape actually makes them a good bit stronger than my estimate.

Still, if you have an actual side by side comparison of otherwise like parts I'm happy to look at it.

I will also note, as others have said, in general all of these exceed what most people would apply absent a cheater bar.

 

[honcho]

II suppose there might be situations out there where some third-rate engineer designed enough access for a 24mm socket but not the width of a ½ ratchet head, and there isn't enough swing room for a breaker bar. May they burn in hell...

First rate engineer specifies 24mm fastener on subassembly that is integrated into larger design. Documentation says removal of subassembly necessary for repairs/adjustment. Smart flat-rate mechanics beat book time repairing/adjusting in place even though there's little room for manipulating tools. Who's wrong?

 

[dukefx]

That's their rating. If they want they can claim QR is rated at just 1/3rd as strong. Alternatively it may be based on some other change. It doesn't mean the true difference are reflected in the ratings.

The physics don't support the claim that the QR hole grossly reduces strength. In my linked post I explain why and show the math. Torsional strength is greatly affected by diameter. The material near the center just doesn't contribute that much. I'm sure my estimates aren't perfect given I assumed the anvils were round. The square shape actually makes them a good bit stronger than my estimate.

Still, if you have an actual side by side comparison of otherwise like parts I'm happy to look at it.

I will also note, as others have said, in general all of these exceed what most people would apply absent a cheater bar.

I'm sure they don't like to shoot themselves in the foot by providing data that makes them look bad. We can agree on that and consider those numbers provided by Hazet factual since they were tested. Todd tested the 3/8 non-QR and it broke a tiny bit above 400 Nm which is spot on. Meanwhile I tried to look up a few other brands but no luck. They are quite secretive about failure loads. I didn't have much luck with videos either. It's always this brand vs that brand if I look for torture tests. I'll keep looking when I have more time.

 

[dnschmidt]

It's Stahlwill-e not Stahlwill-a. Unless the a in English is pronounced as e in German, but I don't think it is? This is always confusing for me to think about as a foreigner

 

[scooby074]

I saw a video by Knipex US about how it is pronounced, and they said it as Kuh-nipex. It was really strange to me since it's not pronounced in that way in German either, the "k" sound has no "uh" to it. It's more like the "k" sound in the word "clover plant".

Ka-nip-pex

vs

Ka-neee-pex

Funny thing is even the Reps in the first video are wrong compared to how the official videos in German pronounce Knipex. Theyre so confident in being wrong

 

[Citation]

I'm sure they don't like to shoot themselves in the foot by providing data that makes them look bad. We can agree on that and consider those numbers provided by Hazet factual since they were tested. Todd tested the 3/8 non-QR and it broke a tiny bit above 400 Nm which is spot on. Meanwhile I tried to look up a few other brands but no luck. They are quite secretive about failure loads. I didn't have much luck with videos either. It's always this brand vs that brand if I look for torture tests. I'll keep looking when I have more time.

You are suggesting they rated the tool with zero margin?

So why would a hole in the center reduce the strength so much given the math that says it wouldn't?

 

[scooby074]

Oh and dont forget the pronunciation of Hazet..

Haa-zett Vs. Hat-zet

 

[humpty]

The best part of being an ugly American is we have the freedom to butcher the pronunciation of foreign words.

 

[dukefx]

You are suggesting they rated the tool with zero margin?

So why would a hole in the center reduce the strength so much given the math that says it wouldn't?

400 guaranteed, failed at 411. Yes, seems quite marginal to me.

Oh and dont forget the pronunciation of Hazet..

Haa-zett Vs. Hat-zet

It's the German pronunciation of the founder's initials: H (Ha), Z (Zett), Z has no equivalent in English, but it's basically the ts sound.

 

[Pexto]

... I'm kinda tired of hearing Stihl as "still" instead of "shteel".

Similarly, Stahlwille is pronounced "shtaal-villeh".

Working back around to Knipex, I'd say there are two ways to pronounce it properly. Some of the videos with German staff have them saying 'kn-ee-pex', but I've heard several native German speakers say 'kn-ih-pex'. I think this may be a regional difference, as the folks that I've heard say 'kn-ih-pex' have all been Austrian or south German.

 

[dukefx]

Similarly, Stahlwille is pronounced "shtaal-villeh".

Working back around to Knipex, I'd say there are two ways to pronounce it properly. Some of the videos with German staff have them saying 'kn-ee-pex', but I've heard several native German speakers say 'kn-ih-pex'. I think this may be a regional difference, as the folks that I've heard say 'kn-ih-pex' have all been Austrian or south German.

What's the difference between ee and ih? If it's the same but one is long the other short then you are right. I myself use the short form but a lot of people like to pretend it's written as Kniepex.

 

[Madjik Man]

I’m just going to start calling it “knee pads.”

 

[bwringer]

Geez, that Cresent ratchet put up a good showing, for about the cost of a rebuild kit for the more expensive brands. Wish it was made in Taiwan vs. China.

Yeah, I love it when a cheap tool punches above its weight.

The guys using Pitt Pro ratchets are too busy getting **** done to sing their praises to a bunch of anonymous strangers on the interweb

Agreed. Did he test these in the last batch?


Overall, I'm always a little sad when he destroys the tools... although I guess we usually learn something. That said, I don't think I've ever broken a 3/8" drive ratchet or breaker bar. If I need to reef on something that hard, I'm moving to 1/2" drive (and I have broken 1/2" drive tools).

 

[JradM]

I agree on the backdrag, and for me slop is important. It's not that I spend my days working in confined spaces where swing angle is narrow. It's just that ratchets with play feel cheap and we like things that are well-designed and well-machined.

I've been intrigued by the Ko-ken and Nepros ratchets because of all the comments I've read about swiss-watch feel.

That's also why I most often reach for my 20 year old Facom ⅜" 72 tooth round-head. I like the smooth action and it feels as precise as an old watch.

Tangentially, my Williams B-52 round head ratchet (72 teeth) has the lowest backdrag of all my ratchets (most of my ratchets are Proto, with some Williams, a Wright, an SK, a Dewalt, couple Gearwrench, two Titans, a trio of ABNs... etc - I have more ratchets than strictly makes sense).

However, I think it looks like something that might be sold in a dollar store.

The design is dated, there's no swoops and curves for visual interest, the chrome is mediocre and it's as though they missed spots while polishing - mostly the inside edges. Nevertheless, I still like using it. It's got good knurling, low backdrag and a precise-feeling ratchet mechanism.

It's not my favorite ratchet - I prefer my Protos - but if asked to design a test that showed why, I'm sure it would be impossible. Some of it is the beautiful design and finishing, but Proto's "clicky" ratchet mechanism feels different too. I also like the direction lever more than the twist-top of the round-head Williams.

It's great to have videos like this one from Project Farm to highlight how different ratchets perform, but you'll miss out on the fun of discovering some of the esoteric qualities of ratchets if you just relied on the overall ranking without considering what other aspects might be appealing.

 

[Pexto]

What's the difference between ee and ih? If it's the same but one is long the other short then you are right. I myself use the short form but a lot of people like to pretend it's written as Kniepex.

I think we're on the same page. I'm not sure how a linguist would write those vowel sounds but I was aiming for 'ee' as in "fee", and 'ih' as in "nip".

 

[ecotec]

The guys using Pitt Pro ratchets are too busy getting **** done to sing their praises to a bunch of anonymous strangers on the interweb

I am the first to admit that they are great ratchets.

I don’t use them much. I use my Snap-on ones.

My “good” ratchet drawer is Dual80’s, Pittsburgh Pro, and dual pawl Wright.

The Proto, Williams, SK, Craftsman, older Snap-on, Armstrong… were downgraded to my cart and workbench… but I do not really care to use them.

My absolute worst ratchet is a old Snap-on. It has a very nice shape, and feels great in the hand… but as a ratchet, it is terrible.

 

[dnschmidt]

Both myself, and my cousin in Germany who's a native, pronounce it as Ka-knee-pex. The first two syllables are sort of slurred together but the long “e” sound is definitely pronounced.

 

[F-22]

Here's a German video. I think it's how you'd pronounce it in most germanic and slavic languages except in english.

 

[rust in the eye]

I like this fellow's tests.
Interesting to see the $$$ truck brands humbled.
My take? I own the HF pro which I bought because of the fat handle. I'm old, comfort matters. I also own some Snappys. I mostly USE
a couple of "Popular Mechanics" ratchets bought at WalMart eons ago and a Stanley flex head that also extends.
The Snappys without the quick release drive me mad when trying to remove the sockets/extension with oily hands so mostly collect dust. The HF's handle is too fat to fit into the hole on my cart so mostly lays alongside the SO stuff in my main box.
Aside the dime store ratchet tested all of them are way stronger than I am. My cheapies have been abused with cheaters and so far(knock wood) have not broken. When using a cheater I rather expect them to break so no complaints if my $15 ratchet craps out at 200# or so. That amount of torque deserves a larger drive size.
If I am in such tight quarters that swing becomes a factor I'll try to reduce drive size.