Project Farm tests locking pliers.

[dnschmidt]

That's why Eagle Grip died. Vice grips, particularly used in welding, one of it's primary purposes, turns Vice Grips into spatter covered trash rather quickly. Why Eagle Grip figured it could charge $60 a pair for something most of us consider to be disposable is a mystery to me.

 

[finn]

You can have my Petersens when you pry... You get the jist.

Comparing something available pretty much anywhere used tools are sold to a buggy whip shows immense ignorance. The purpose of a buggy whip has largely disappeared--outside the world of buggy racing--but the purpose of the Petersen Vise Grips remains relevant, as do the ones I--and many, many others--have and use in my shop. Quality endures.

When no one needs nor wants the Vise-Grip-style pliers, then they're like buggy whips. The present still contains the tools of yesteryear, and not all are obsolete.

I'm sorry if this opinion doesn't fit in your cut-foam-lined SO tool kit.

I have several pair of Petersons in my shop. They hold no special place in my heart. They’re pieces of metal made by a company that disappeared years ago, probably through mergers and buyouts.

I use them, they’re inanimate tools with no soul. I don’t waste my time at estate or yard sales. I can’t buy them new anymore. They’re irrelevant, just like the buggy whip.

Gone, finite, lost to history. It matters zilch if the were great in their day.

Why do I want to live in the past?

I’m not interested in collecting tools, but rather use them.

 

[four.cycle]

That's why Eagle Grip died. Vice grips, particularly used in welding, one of it's primary purposes,

^ It is possible they mistakenly assumed that welders would use some other kind of clamping device.

 

[dnschmidt]

^ It is possible they mistakenly assumed that welders would use some other kind of clamping device.

No idea but all companies should determine their core market prior to introducing any product. Vice Grips existed for 100 years so what they're used for should have been obvious to Malco and pricing them where they did was suicide. Yes, they clearly were the best, but how many people need the best when all it does is clamp **** together?

 

[finn]

No idea but all companies should determine their core market prior to introducing any product. Vice Grips existed for 100 years so what they're used for should have been obvious to Malco and pricing them where they did was suicide. Yes, they clearly were the best, but how many people need the best when all it does is clamp **** together?

Exactly. Schmidt gets it.

 

[Ohio Andy]

I have different brands depending on what I am doing. You can still get some new Malco's from Amazon.


I have a couple of these: Eagle Grip by Malco LP10WC 10 in. Curved Jaw Locking Pliers with Wire Cutter

Amazon.com

And Eagle Grip by Malco LP11SP 11 in. Locking C-Clamp with Swivel Pads

Eagle Grip by Malco LP11SP 11 in. Locking C-Clamp with Swivel Pads - Amazon.com

Eagle Grip by Malco LP11SP 11 in. Locking C-Clamp with Swivel Pads - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

I do not have any of these: Eagle Grip LP11C Locking C-Clamp, Multi

Eagle Grip LP11C Locking C-Clamp, Multi - Amazon.com

Eagle Grip LP11C Locking C-Clamp, Multi - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

 

[finn]

I have different brands depending on what I am doing. You can still get some new Malco's from Amazon.


I have a couple of these: Eagle Grip by Malco LP10WC 10 in. Curved Jaw Locking Pliers with Wire Cutter

Amazon.com

And Eagle Grip by Malco LP11SP 11 in. Locking C-Clamp with Swivel Pads

Eagle Grip by Malco LP11SP 11 in. Locking C-Clamp with Swivel Pads - Amazon.com

Eagle Grip by Malco LP11SP 11 in. Locking C-Clamp with Swivel Pads - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

I do not have any of these: Eagle Grip LP11C Locking C-Clamp, Multi

Eagle Grip LP11C Locking C-Clamp, Multi - Amazon.com

Eagle Grip LP11C Locking C-Clamp, Multi - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

Those are all $60 pliers. I could understand spending that much if the other generic pliers were so inferior that they couldn’t do the job, but like others have stated, the most common use is as welding clamps, and even a $4.00 HF bargain bin loss leader will do that job.

They’re consumables.

 

[Ohio Andy]

Those are all $60 pliers. I could understand spending that much if the other generic pliers were so inferior that they couldn’t do the job, but like others have stated, the most common use is as welding clamps, and even a $4.00 HF bargain bin loss leader will do that job.

They’re consumables.

That's not what I use my malco pliers for.

Is that all you do with locking pliers, weld?

I bought them after I had problems with other locking pliers. Not had a problem with the malco pliers (or a few other brands). When I am stuck doing odd body contortions and I just want to grip that one impossible to reach thing, I grab my malco pliers.

I also just bought two more snap-on pliers. Not locking and don't use those to weld either.

I have friends who weld, I don't. Well I did once...

 

[Benito]

At work i use locking pliers to clamp onto the end of 12 ft lengths of steel, from steel deliveries of flat bar. Like 1/2x6", 3/4x4", 1x5" we're talking 50, 100, 200lb lengths of steel where the size I need is stacked 6 pieces deep under others on the ground.
I lock them on the end, put a strap through them and pull them out with a fork lift.

Cheap locking pliers last about 2 months.

 

[Ilikeike]

I just want to know if the K is silent in Knipex, like Knife...

Oh,

After becoming a member of GJ, I added Malco to my collection a few years ago,
along with thousands of $ in other stuff I did not know I needed.

 

[finn]

That's not what I use my malco pliers for.

Is that all you do with locking pliers, weld?

I bought them after I had problems with other locking pliers. Not had a problem with the malco pliers (or a few other brands). When I am stuck doing odd body contortions and I just want to grip that one impossible to reach thing, I grab my malco pliers.

I also just bought two more snap-on pliers. Not locking and don't use those to weld either.

I have friends who weld, I don't. Well I did once...

Pretty much only use them as welding clamps. Occasionally for grabbing extremely rusted or otherwise destroyed fasteners, but if they’re that bad, a cutoff wheel or grinder is more effective.

I don’t find them useful for much else, at least off the top of my head. They pretty much destroy fasteners if you use them instead of the proper wrench, and aren’t as effective as a regular pipe wrench for holding pipe.

I rarely use adjustable wrenches, which also have their own cult following, either, although I will never say never, as I used one on the tractor three point turnbuckle last week.

To me those two tools, although championed by some, are of little value. Certainly not worth $60.

 

[Ohio Andy]

I just want to know if the K is silent in Knipex, like Knife.

Not silent

 

[Steel_Rain]

I just want to know if the K is silent in Knipex, like Knife...

Oh,

After becoming a member of GJ, I added Malco to my collection a few years ago,
along with thousands of $ in other stuff I did not know I needed.

Not silent

From the horse's mouth:

Your welcome.

 

[Ohio Andy]

From the horse's mouth:

Your welcome.

Yeah, I lived in Germany for a while (he confidently says like that's the reason he knows)

 

[winlinmac]

I was shocked to see Knipex slip, lol

 

[whateg01]

... Yes, they clearly were the best, but how many people need the best when all it does is clamp **** together?

Snap on has entered the chat

 

[neophyte]

Well... those people who actually know the tools would know that he would be measuring all others against what is arguably accepted as the de facto Gold Standard.

Leaving them out gives me the impression that the guy is stuck down in his basement and doesn't know about the real world outside.

==

Take that a step further: He is comparing locking pliers that are readily available at most large U.S. retailers.

Okay, so let's compare ratchets among brands that are readily available at most large retailers.
What is the first brand that comes to mind that is not available at one of the big box stores?

That's right: it's the ratchet many of you insist is the best, and well worth the crazy money you're paying for them.

But wait.... how about Ko-Ken? Stahlwille? Wera? Nepros? When's the last time you any of those brands in a retail store in the U.S. ??

If you're going to compare apples to apples, you need to compare ALL the apples - not just the ones that you find at Walmart.

There are basically two manufacturers in Germany that actually make locking pliers, and all the other German brands just rebrand the pliers.
Monte over in the Tools From the Old World thread has mentioned this in the past, and nowadays, there might just be one manufacturer.
Bollmann-Selzer is one of those German manufacturers.
I always forget the name of the other manufacturer.
A number of the German brands are available thru Amazon or other retailers in the USA now, and Knipex is far from the “obscure brand” in the USA that they were 20-30 years ago.

 

[neophyte]

Oh, yeah, I know who tightens VGs that way: No one, ever. At least, no one I've seen in decades of using clamping pliers and being around others doing so.

Well Irwins DO say "Vise Grip The Original" right on them.



so they must be the original, right?

Glad I'm not the only one who can't stand the livestock auctioneer delivery.

Judging by his past locking pliers tests, Project Farm guy tightens the screw AFTER locking the pliers, to “equalize” the clamping pressure amongst the tested pliers so that all the pliers are tightened to the “same torque” to insure equality in the tests.
Admittedly, he probably should clamp the pliers on a pressure load sensor covered in sacrificial steel pieces or some other method, but mainly he’s trying to tighten each pair of pliers to the same “grip strength” before testing, since arbitrarily tightening the screw in the unlocked position would result in wildly different jaw clamping pressures.

As far as past tests, he’s done that in the past, and his results this time were somewhat similar, with Malco/Eagle Grip on top, and Vise Grip brand just below, somewhat insuring test consistency.
After Stanley bought Irwin and the Vise-Grip brand, they apparently realized how badly Newell had screwed with quality and corrected the issues.

 

[neophyte]

The Eagle Grip locking pliers are an out of production dead horse, so why even bother testing them. Yes, they’re still available on Amazon and a few other outlets that squirreled some of them away, or bought out production pliers
at liquidation, but when they’re gone they’re gone, so I consider testing them as being pretty irrelevant.

Sort of like reporting road test results on a two year old car,( I think they’ve been gone that long already), or SK ratchets from the Ideal era.

Who really cares about a long gone tool from a defunct factory for anything other than nostalgia.

I seriously doubt he was even aware that Eagle Grip folded a couple of years ago.

Project Farm has tested “defunct” brands and products alongside current production before.
Fireball Tool and Torque Test Channel guy have as well.
Usually, it’s one or maybe two vintage tools thrown in the mix to test standard tools currently available against older “standard” brands on which a tool or brands reputation is based, to see if currently available tools are just as good, or better, or worse.
There are tests of older vise grips on youtube if you want to look them up.
The Malco pliers are still available thru various sources even if discontinued, so why not test the pliers?

 

[haneyrm]

I like my Bremens from HF. Under $10. For as little as I use them and knowing that if they ever break, I can walk out with a new pair, I’m good with that. Probably work for 99% of the normal people out there.

I also like PF reviews and tests. Good comparative reviews even if the test methods can’t match the mythological standards set by this group.

If anybody has better published data on comparing these tools, please post it up so we can all be better informed. Also please include Bremen. A lot of us common folk like them.

 

[American Locomotive]

That's why Eagle Grip died. Vice grips, particularly used in welding, one of it's primary purposes, turns Vice Grips into spatter covered trash rather quickly. Why Eagle Grip figured it could charge $60 a pair for something most of us consider to be disposable is a mystery to me.

I mean, if you work in a welding shop, that's probably all you see locking pliers used for. Having a locking plier with the strongest, hardest jaw on the market probably isn't a huge selling point for just holding two pieces of metal together. On the other hand, as a shade-tree-rust-belt-mechanic, I rarely if ever use locking pliers in that matter, and use them almost exclusively for broken bolt/stud and rounded bolt removal.

I've tried a lot of vise grips, from original Petersens, HF, Milwaukee, Craftsman and others, and the Malcos are hands down the best one's I've ever used. Their ability to just bite and grip is ridiculous. I remember we had one clamped onto the head of a rounded 9/16" diameter bolt, and with a Milwaukee 1/2" rattling the seized nut on the other side, and it ended just shearing that 9/16" bolt in half without the Malcos slipping.

I think Malco pushed the "original Vise Grip" thing too much, and they really should have been pushing them as the "last word" or the "problem solvers". My Eagle Grips have saved me from so much grief just working on my own junk, let alone in a professional setting. Pro mechanics pay premium prices for "the best" tools all the time. If they had just pushed them as *the best* locking pliers, that absolutely will not slip - they would have been a very successful product.

People will absolutely pay more, for the best. The Eagle Grips are still the best locking pliers around, and just holding them they feel like a premium product.

I will concede their price was pretty high, but companies like Knipex, Snap-On, or even Apple have proven that people will pay for quality, and what they perceive to be "the best". I heard the biggest issue they stopped production is that they couldn't dial in the production line, and that there was a very high defect rate.

 

[neophyte]

That's why Eagle Grip died. Vice grips, particularly used in welding, one of it's primary purposes, turns Vice Grips into spatter covered trash rather quickly. Why Eagle Grip figured it could charge $60 a pair for something most of us consider to be disposable is a mystery to me.

^ It is possible they mistakenly assumed that welders would use some other kind of clamping device.

For years after Newell-Rubbermaid bought the Vise-Grip brand, people who used locking pliers regularly were lamenting the decline in quality.
According to posts on GJ, from people who supposedly lived in the town with the original Vise-Grip factory, the first thing Newell did after buying Vise-Grip was to change the specs on the steel to a lower quality, cheaper steel.
There are various purchasers for locking pliers, and one of those groups is welders, who simply use the pliers to clamp pieces together quickly for welding or braising.
The pliers used for welding get gunked and trashed quickly, so lower cost is important, although better steel alloys will last longer in these applications as well.
The other major group of people who useVise-Grips, need a plier that will lock on like a rabid pit bull, and hold onto whatever part needs to be torqued due to rust, or permanent Loctite, and then have the locking pliers hammered on or torqued with a 6’ cheater bar.
This second group of users basically need locking pliers made to the original Vise-Grip specs, or the Malco specs.
Most users aren’t going to differentiate between the licking pliers though, and don’t want to spend the Malco/Snap-On prices which cost more than a pair of Knipex chrome plated pliers (the regular ones, not the locking ones) for a tool they will weld with.
Because of this, there wasn’t a large enough market for the higher priced locking pliers, to sustain production in a facility that only made locking pliers.
The Facom pliers that open ridiculously wide give more versatile use than the older Petersen design, which is the reason Facom can keep these in production, as well as the fact that the producer who makes the pliers for Facom/Stanley also manufactures other items.

 

[ecotec]

So we've got you telling us he shouldn't be testing the Malcos because they're out of production and we've got Four Cycle above telling us he should be testing the original Petersons even though they haven't been in production for decades.

Tough crowd.

There are probably more than a hundred pairs of Petersen’s on the planet for every pair of Malco’s.

 

[ohhimark]

I was shocked to see Knipex slip, lol

same, kslipex?

 

[finn]

Project Farm has tested “defunct” brands and products alongside current production before.
Fireball Tool and Torque Test Channel guy have as well.
Usually, it’s one or maybe two vintage tools thrown in the mix to test standard tools currently available against older “standard” brands on which a tool or brands reputation is based, to see if currently available tools are just as good, or better, or worse.
There are tests of older vise grips on youtube if you want to look them up.
The Malco pliers are still available thru various sources even if discontinued, so why not test the pliers?

The interesting thing to me is tha I never heard him mention that the Malco pliers were a defunct product.

Openly stating that one of the items is out of production and not widely available puts a different spin on it than ignoring that fact entirely.

Don’t get me wrong, I usually would jump to his defense, as I understand his resources are limited and he does the best he can. I especially see my blood pressure rising when he gets attacked for inane and irrelevant things like someone doesn’t like the sound of his voice, he talks too fast, or they don’t like the way he looks.

In this case, I would have no issue if he had presented the Eagle Grips as being a benchmark or comparator, but out of production for (3?) years and only available as liquidation stock.

As far as that goes, perhaps the SnapOn version should have been tested instead.

I still maintain that how the Eagle Grips performed is irrelevant, as they’re defunct.

 

[Steve_P]

There are probably more than a hundred pairs of Petersen’s on the planet for every pair of Malco’s.

Sure, and 99% of them are worn out, like some that I have, because they haven't made them in ~30 years. I know, you see them at yard sales all the time for $2 a pair like new. Ok, fine. But I'm not driving around for hours on a Saturday to hope to find the needle in the haystack. PF tests 99% of stuff that you can buy new now. Just because he throws in a vintage tool every once in a while, don't expect him to test a reel mower in the next cordless mower test. The vast majority of his viewers are not going to spend hours driving around to find that holy grail Peterson vise grip that has never been used for $2.

 

[Steve_P]

I still maintain that how the Eagle Grips performed is irrelevant, as they’re defunct.

Fine. Ignore them in the ranking and get over it.

 

[finn]

Fine. Ignore them in the ranking and get over it.

Don’t take it so personally.

 

[Ohio Andy]

but how many people need the best when all it does is clamp **** together?

For me the turning point was when the only thing that managed to get this one screw off a plumbing fixture of all things on a very cramped area with limited access limited space limited visibility was my best pair these players. To be fair, at the time I did not own vampire flyers which might have done it, four different brands all failed and they all slipped. And one brand was like whatever you took it right off. It was going to be a lot of work and extra expense and having to go get parts if I couldn't have gotten that screw off.

So that was the turning point for me.
And it's why I now own probably seven or eight of them. Different sizes and types. Some are clamping only...

Oh and the wife is happy if I finally fixed that thing for her

 

[American Locomotive]

Sure, and 99% of them are worn out, like some that I have, because they haven't made them in ~30 years. I know, you see them at yard sales all the time for $2 a pair like new. Ok, fine. But I'm not driving around for hours on a Saturday to hope to find the needle in the haystack. PF tests 99% of stuff that you can buy new now. Just because he throws in a vintage tool every once in a while, don't expect him to test a reel mower in the next cordless mower test. The vast majority of his viewers are not going to spend hours driving around to find that holy grail Peterson vise grip that has never been used for $2.

Exactly. I need new locking pliers to solve my problem now, I ain't wasting 4 saturdays of my life driving around to yard or estate sales to find a golden pair of original petersens that aren't all clapped out, nor do I regularly drive around to yard sales anyways.

Malcos were at least available until recently.

I do question the Snap-On versions though. Are they still being made somehow? Do they just have a huge stock of them?

 

[Wamsutta]

It would be interesting to get Project Farm to test 1/4 flex sockets.

The quest to find the flex socket that can provide the most angle without binding up.

 

[micromind]

Oh, yeah, I know who tightens VGs that way: No one, ever. At least, no one I've seen in decades of using clamping pliers and being around others doing so.

In over 50 years of using Vise-Grips, I have never even thought of tightening the screw to increase clamping force.

 

[Beerhippie]

In over 50 years of using Vise-Grips, I have never even thought of tightening the screw to increase clamping force.

See? I'm not the only ignoramus around here!

 

[mngundog]

I would have expected the same, but there was at least one commentor who claimed that "most" people clamp first, then tighten the screw. I was worried this is one of those things where half of us do it one way, half do it the other way, and neither half knows the other exists.

I suspect more people use them as a hammer or a window crank than the clamp then tighten method.

 

[Beerhippie]

I suspect more people use them as a hammer or a window crank than the clamp then tighten method.

You've seen my Vanagon?

The Toyota just uses some for an inside door release. Petersen, of course.

 

[whateg01]

You've seen my Vanagon?

The Toyota just uses some for an inside door release. Petersen, of course.

Well, of course! That's a job reserved for only the best!

 

[Beerhippie]

Ain't gonna be no cheap-*** Irwins on my chariot!

 

[Rinspeed]

I have never, ever, not once, tried to tighten the pliers after they were clamped down, it never occurred to me that was even a possibility.

Me neither and the thought of it is just plain goofy.

 

[whateg01]

Me neither and the thought of it is just plain goofy.

I've never had a pair that weren't just a knurled screw

 

[Beerhippie]

I've never had a pair that weren't just a knurled screw

The pair I'm using for a door handle has a Phillips screw... that I put there to replace the missing screw.

I'm sure I'd have thrown them out if I were more smarter.