propane heat...be careful

[Empty Pockets]

My propane supplier demonstrated that the local branch is nothing more than a den of thieves.

I am in process of changing suppliers. My current supplier took it upon themselves to top off my tank adding 450 Gallons to my 1000 gallon tank, while there was nobody home, without my asking, at a price $1.50/gallon MORE than my new supplier and $1.00 more than October.

When I called to protest, I was dismissed, and told that they will pull the tank, and buy back the propane, but charge me $1.00 per gallon restocking fee.

I am besides myself with anger. Any suggestions?

 

[Empty Pockets]

I forgot to mention, the current supplier is Suburban Propane. If you ever have the opportunity to do business with them, Run, don't walk away, as far and as fast as you can

 

[ADSR]

I'd take them to court. As soon as you have them served, I bet you'll end up with that 450 gallons for free.

 

[The Cobbler]

What's your contract with them, auto fill or will call ?

 

[CNGsaves]

Do you have "standing order" to refill as needed . . . in writing (ie contract) ??

If not, PropaneCo should not have refilled without your consent. Pretty much like receiving a package that you did NOT order.

I'd get attorney involved with a "scare letter" that gives them reasonable number of days (like 15 to 20 days) to come retrieve the 450 gallons of LPG they delivered without your approval, and that you will NOT be paying them a penny. Otherwise you consider that they are abandoning that fuel.

Do you own the tank ?? If so, you have lots more bargaining power.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Suburban bought the closest supplier to us, changed immediately to someone else.

 

[acmikee]

only $1.50 per gal. I called yesterday all of the suppliers and the lowest was $2.00 per.

 

[The Cobbler]

only $1.50 per gal. I called yesterday all of the suppliers and the lowest was $2.00 per.

He said, $1.50/gallon MORE than my new supplier and $1.00 more than October.

 

[Showkey]

OP said they will pull the tank. So they own the tank. If you do not own the tank you likely lose all your supplier choices.

Like others already said, Read the contract..........guessing...........they are very likely are doing what it says in the contract.

 

[Fordman7795]

only $1.50 per gal. I called yesterday all of the suppliers and the lowest was $2.00 per.

We are locked in for $1.39. This is our last winter on propane as natural gas is being run down our road this summer

 

[NUTTSGT]

If you own the tank and are not on auto-fill, I'd tell them to retrieve the LP that was not requested at their cost as you're not paying for it.

 

[mygarageone]

Suburban , bought out several of our local suppliers too and pulled the same ****.
I am with someone else , they treat us great We locked in this summer at $1:10 gallon.

And as long as they treat us right ,we'll be with them a long time.

 

[Richard Cranium]

No Suburban propane here, but a few years ago, We owned a mobile home that was heated with propane, We were on a keep full program. We discovered that if we were home to pay for the fuel it was cheaper then if I went in the next day and took care of the bill.

 

[James-W]

As has been said, if you are on "auto-fill" you are, more or less, screwed. If you are on "will-call" then you should be OK, but you MAY need to have an attorney handle it for you. Most people around here have the "will-call" type of arrangement set up and they tend to use the "locked-in" type of deal as well. We haven't had any problems with unscrupulous propane distributors around, at least not that I am aware of . We do have a few people who still use fuel oil for heat, but the number of them is dwindling quite rapidly.

 

[KRB52]

Where I live, they have several units in one building and one large tank fueling the building. Therefore, we have no choice in provider; we get stuck with the company that the complex owners have chosen. They are not high, but I would be willing to bet we can find lower prices with other companies. Some day, I'll own my own house...

 

[Empty Pockets]

only $1.50 per gal. I called yesterday all of the suppliers and the lowest was $2.00 per.

$1.50/ gallon MORE than other suppliers in the area

 

[Empty Pockets]

I'd take them to court. As soon as you have them served, I bet you'll end up with that 450 gallons for free.

Paperwork is coming from the New York State Attorney General's office, and a complaint will be filed.

Generally a letter on Attorney General Letterhead will get their attention.

 

[Firebird 1]

I had a similar situation with my oil supplier a number of years ago. I was on auto fill and they spread the billing over 12 months. After the second year I started to question them. On the bill they would never put the quantity of oil they pumped, just that I owed x dollars. I averaged about $1500. a year for 2 yrs. before I got smart. I switched suppliers and call when I need. I spend less than $900. a yr. now.

 

[Showkey]

Paperwork is coming from the New York State Attorney General's office, and a complaint will be filed.

Generally a letter on Attorney General Letterhead will get their attention.

That's great.....BUT
Did you pull out the contract and read it !!!!! You may have signed up for this great program ?

 

[bczygan]

What does contract say?

 

[jade97]

When I was building the house, I put in a propane tank for a future generator (I don't have yet), Suburban was the only one who could provide the tank in the time frame needed.

They were going to charge me $300 for the extra length of copper they left (I returned & got that straightened out). They still are still holding my regulators hostage & have a lock on my tank. I own the buried tank.

Whenever I finally get my generator, it will probably be cheaper to buy new regulators than to have them come back & install the ones they are holding hostage.

I will deal with my local company when I need them......

 

[James-W]

When I was building the house, I put in a propane tank for a future generator (I don't have yet), Suburban was the only one who could provide the tank in the time frame needed.

They were going to charge me $300 for the extra length of copper they left (I returned & got that straightened out). They still are still holding my regulators hostage & have a lock on my tank. I own the buried tank.

Whenever I finally get my generator, it will probably be cheaper to buy new regulators than to have them come back & install the ones they are holding hostage.

I will deal with my local company when I need them......

If you own the tank and the regulators, how can they hold them "hostage"? Also, how can they put a lock on YOUR tank? I don't understand this at all. When you have some time please explain in detail because doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Kevin54]

When I was building the house, I put in a propane tank for a future generator (I don't have yet), Suburban was the only one who could provide the tank in the time frame needed.

They were going to charge me $300 for the extra length of copper they left (I returned & got that straightened out). They still are still holding my regulators hostage & have a lock on my tank. I own the buried tank.

Whenever I finally get my generator, it will probably be cheaper to buy new regulators than to have them come back & install the ones they are holding hostage.

I will deal with my local company when I need them......

If you OWN the buried tank, then they can't put a lock on it OR hold your regulators hostage IF you paid for both. And if that is the case, I think I would be getting rather firm with them in person, and get what is rightfully mine. As far as locking the tank.....Bolt cutters will take care of that.

Do you owe them money for the installation of the tank, or the labor to install it or run the lines? If not, visit them in person.

As far as my propane goes, I am on a fill at will, or also a call in. They will fill based on my usage from the prior year, or if I need it sooner, I will call them. I am locked in at $.999, or if I use more than 600 gallons, then I am locked in a $.949. Our previous supplier was charging $2.35/gallon. And the price went up from that, because his dad passed away, and he got into a legal battle with his two sisters. He owed them something like $100,000, so he passed that on to the customers. But he soon passed away himself, and the company got sold to the company we have now. I am very pleased with them. I do rent all of my tanks though. When I had the new tanks installed for the garage (2) 120 gallon tanks, the initial cost was something like $250, or $125/tank. That was to hook everything up. After that, I believe the cost is something like $1/tank/year lease. Which is way cheaper than buying tanks. Plus if you own your tanks, you have to have them checked after so many years. If mine start to look ****** with rust and such, due to weather, then they will replace the tanks as they see fit for nothing.

I also heard that if you have a buried tank, you have to have it checked after ten years, then every year afterwards for leaks. And I heard from someone else that after ten years, you have to have the tank replaced. I don't know because I don't have a buried tank, but next time I talk to my supplier, if I remember, I'll ask them the particulars about a buried tank.

 

[wasfuzz]

Propane Service Companies are like used car salesmen, you can tell they are lying because there lips are moving. Best you can do is own your own tank and call whoever is cheaper at the time to fill it. But you will have to buy regulators and provide maintenance ( documented) or no one will touch you. I was having the same issues with our local coop WFS ( or as most called them, We'll F##k Someone). Found a smaller comp[any and have had no issues in 8 years.

 

[Showkey]

Looks like some are new to the propane game............and don't remember a few years back when $4.00 a gallon was the norm.

And few do not understand if you do not own the tank you can not make changes to the tank or the system and can not buy propane from anyone but the owner of the tank.

It's not all the different with cable, SAT TV or the cell phone companies your married to them by contract. Break ups or changes are going to cost you dearly at every turn. The difference of course you can deal with no TV ......home heat is a little more important.

 

[L5wolvesf]

What's your contract with them, auto fill or will call ?

Exactly. This is where you have to start. And, does the contract address pricing increases?

 

[bobmulry]

HELP,

We use propane for heat, cooking and the water heater......

During the summer of 2016 we paid $1.56 per gallon and our last fill which was in December cost $2.15 a gallon.....

We have all of the discounts available applied to propane such as auto-fill with tank monitor, flat year round pricing, senior, auto c/c pay and it amounts to 30 cents per gallon.

We pay $72.00 per month year round which is $860.00 per year and we usually get a carry-over to the next year.....

But I see that some of the members are paying as little as 99 cents per gallon....

I live near Yosemite Park in California and would like to know what Propane Companies you are using....

It might save me a couple of bucks that I can spend on my racecar....

Thanx,
Bob

 

[jives]

I forgot to mention, the current supplier is Suburban Propane. If you ever have the opportunity to do business with them, Run, don't walk away, as far and as fast as you can

We are in Central NY. When Suburban raised our prices outrageously 7 years ago we shopped and asked around and found a local supplier (Griffith Energy). If I recall the prices was about 50% cheaper. Told Suburban the problem, told them we were going elsehwere, and to move their tank. . . .without our propane. We did wait until the tank was low before having Griffith move in. Griffith moved the Suburban tank and installed their own. The Suburban tank sat in our yard for awhile but eventually Suburban took it and refunded propane costs.

 

[Showkey]

HELP,

We use propane for heat, cooking and the water heater......

During the summer of 2016 we paid $1.56 per gallon and our last fill which was in December cost $2.15 a gallon.....

We have all of the discounts available applied to propane such as auto-fill with tank monitor, flat year round pricing, senior, auto c/c pay and it amounts to 30 cents per gallon.

We pay $72.00 per month year round which is $860.00 per year and we usually get a carry-over to the next year.....

But I see that some of the members are paying as little as 99 cents per gallon....

I live near Yosemite Park in California and would like to know what Propane Companies you are using....

It might save me a couple of bucks that I can spend on my racecar....

Thanx,
Bob

Propane is commodity so it has a market price........then then add regional, seasonal, supply chain, tax and weather components to the pricing. What someone is paying in another area has little or nothing to do with California pricing.

To add further complexity you can have a guaranteed contract price for set period of time or floating market price agreement. If the price goes up $2 or down $1 you still pay the contract price. Then you also get into this post that deals with rented or leases or use tanks and regulators r some own their tanks and equipment.

Not all that different from gasoline where a Midwest guy might be paying $1.99 and the California guy is paying $3.29.


This link is the weekly price of propane which you can see the week 01-09-17 ranges from $4.68 in Fl or $1.18 in IA.

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_wfr_a_epllpa_prs_dpgal_w.htm

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=M_EPLLPA_PRS_NUS_DPG&f=M


While looking to propane pricing found the this suburban propane pricing and fees covering tank rent, pumping fees, termination fee and all sorts of fees the OP can be looking at when he says in haste come get your tank !!! Think and read before you act or react ( just a thought)

https://www.suburbanpropane.com/customer-support/support-fees-and-charges-faq.php

 

[Empty Pockets]

What does contract say?

Currently, I'm on the road, no access to the paperwork. While they may be on an automatic refill program, that was cancelled on 12/29, even if it wasn't jacking up the price from $2.36 (already above the regional average) in October to $3.31 in January is unreasonable, without advance notification.

Further, to the best of my knowledge and belief, in the original contract (Fall 2000) there was no $1.00 per gallon restocking charge.

What's amazing is that in years past they have always waited for the tank to run down to almost empty before bringing more. In fact, this time they filled it with about 40% left in the tank.

They were told that I was looking for a new supplier, and that I didn't want any more deliveries on the 29th. It seems to me that this is nothing more than a money grab by the local manager who appears to be nothing but greedy.

If I live to be 1000, I'll never put myself in a position where I have to do business with Suburban Propane again, once this mess is cleaned up

 

[Empty Pockets]

Propane is commodity so it has a market price........then then add regional, seasonal, supply chain, tax and weather components to the pricing. What someone is paying in another area has little or nothing to do with California pricing.

To add further complexity you can have a guaranteed contract price for set period of time or floating market price agreement. If the price goes up $2 or down $1 you still pay the contract price. Then you also get into this post that deals with rented or leases or use tanks and regulators r some own their tanks and equipment.

Not all that different from gasoline where a Midwest guy might be paying $1.99 and the California guy is paying $3.29.


This link is the weekly price of propane which you can see the week 01-09-17 ranges from $4.68 in Fl or $1.18 in IA.

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_wfr_a_epllpa_prs_dpgal_w.htm

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=M_EPLLPA_PRS_NUS_DPG&f=M


While looking to propane pricing found the this suburban propane pricing and fees covering tank rent, pumping fees, termination fee and all sorts of fees the OP can be looking at when he says in haste come get your tank !!! Think and read before you act or react ( just a thought)

https://www.suburbanpropane.com/customer-support/support-fees-and-charges-faq.php

Those fees were not included in the original contract,, to the best of my knowledge and belief.

New York's web site shows the average price in my regiuon as $2.36, as of 1/9/17.

 

[Empty Pockets]

We are in Central NY. When Suburban raised our prices outrageously 7 years ago we shopped and asked around and found a local supplier (Griffith Energy). If I recall the prices was about 50% cheaper. Told Suburban the problem, told them we were going elsehwere, and to move their tank. . . .without our propane. We did wait until the tank was low before having Griffith move in. Griffith moved the Suburban tank and installed their own. The Suburban tank sat in our yard for awhile but eventually Suburban took it and refunded propane costs.

Seems like I am in the same boat. I have a local supplier out of Wolcott who is set up to supply my propane, as a far lower price. I may have little or no choice but to use up this gas, but I'll gladly give those rascals $1,000,000 of free publicity, all of it bad.

 

[Unregistered Guest]

We are in Central NY. When Suburban raised our prices outrageously 7 years ago we shopped and asked around and found a local supplier (Griffith Energy). If I recall the prices was about 50% cheaper. Told Suburban the problem, told them we were going elsehwere, and to move their tank. . . .without our propane. We did wait until the tank was low before having Griffith move in. Griffith moved the Suburban tank and installed their own. The Suburban tank sat in our yard for awhile but eventually Suburban took it and refunded propane costs.

Similar thing happened to me. We switched to coal and had suburbans propane tank. It was a 500 gallon tank and we were only using a gas range. I bought a 100 lb tank and called them to come get their tank. They said that they didn't have a tank there. After a few weeks I threatened to drag the tank down to the shoulder of the road with that big Suburban Propane sticker on the side. Got home from work the next day and it was gone. Got a refund the next week..

 

[jade97]

If you own the tank and the regulators, how can they hold them "hostage"? Also, how can they put a lock on YOUR tank? I don't understand this at all. When you have some time please explain in detail because doesn't make any sense to me.

Because there was no "appliance" available when the tank was dropped in the ground and filled, "for safety reasons" they could not install the regulators and test them. "For my safety", they placed the lock on the tank.

When I argued about the regulators being mine, they said "yes they are yours and we will gladly give them to you when the appliance is in place". Their fee for returning to my property and installing the regulators is $125 per hour and the servicing location for my area is about 30-40 minutes away. If I know which regulators I need, I can probably buy new ones for less than the labor for Suburban to bring MINE and install them. My builder has an HVAC company and typically installs the regulators and has the local company test before filling the tank. As I mentioned before, the local company could not deliver in the time we needed to backfill.

Per YouTube, this lock can be removed with a piece of 3/8", slightly flared, copper tubing. This is not an issue and will help keep any deplorables from emptying my tank. I can get the lock off. The lock goes inside the fitting where the regulator attaches.

 

[The Cobbler]

a pen cap often works to unlock , all you need to do is spread the tangs outwards
not sure if they have a financial or other recourse by you unlocking, might check into that

 

[jade97]

a pen cap often works to unlock , all you need to do is spread the tangs outwards
not sure if they have a financial or other recourse by you unlocking, might check into that

It's my tank and my gas....paid in full. Nothing in the contract, regarding locking or unlocking the tank. The contract states the title "Seller shall transfer to Buyer title and risk of loss to the Equipment, as evidenced by a Bill of Sale in the form attached hereto to be executed by Seller's authorized representative."

 

[Jackfre]

I do a lot of business in the LP industry. Years ago all the LP companies were full service outfits. They had sales, installation, service, etc. In other words they got to know their customers. About 15 years ago, Suburban decided that they no longer wanted anything to do with gas equipment. They were a gas company and that was that. They got rid of all the sales and equipment. Ferrell does the same thing. A few fears later Americans followed them. Then Amerigas bought Heritage, about the last of the big full service companies. Occasionally, around the country you will find individual branches that offer full service, but for the most part they are out of it. If you are using LP, it is a good idea to visit the independents. They need you and will be I think more ready to do business. I know fGriffith's and they are a good outfit. Depending upon your load, I think the way to make LP the most cost effective is to try to have enough storage to carry you through the season. Best prices are generally late spring early summer. The gas companies don't want to have to much steel in the yard and prefer to do the auto fill due to the cost of amortizing the big tank, but that puts you at market price through the season. Perhaps negotiate a price for a larger tank or buy your own large tank.

 

[mygarageone]

As has been said, if you are on "auto-fill" you are, more or less, screwed. If you are on "will-call" then you should be OK, but you MAY need to have an attorney handle it for you. Most people around here have the "will-call" type of arrangement set up and they tend to use the "locked-in" type of deal as well. We haven't had any problems with unscrupulous propane distributors around, at least not that I am aware of . We do have a few people who still use fuel oil for heat, but the number of them is dwindling quite rapidly.

We are on auto fill at $1.10 gallon , in fact we ran out on a Sunday because they didn't plan on the bitter cold weather and missed a fill auto fill . They came out Sunday afternoon , gave me the bill at 1.10 gal and no special delivery fee .

They are a local smaller supplier and are growing because they treat everyone so good.
They are replacing all kind of other suppliers tanks.

 

[Randy in Maine]

I feel blessed that my propane supplier is really good. They not only give me a good price per gallon, but never allow me to run out. I am willing to pay a little more for good quality service as I like to keep the local guy in business.

Good service when I need it also. Rare but sometimes you need something (like a 50 gallon tank delivered to my shop when I was building it to keep it all warm out there before the radiant floor heat got hooked up).

 

[James-W]

Because there was no "appliance" available when the tank was dropped in the ground and filled, "for safety reasons" they could not install the regulators and test them. "For my safety", they placed the lock on the tank.

When I argued about the regulators being mine, they said "yes they are yours and we will gladly give them to you when the appliance is in place". Their fee for returning to my property and installing the regulators is $125 per hour and the servicing location for my area is about 30-40 minutes away. If I know which regulators I need, I can probably buy new ones for less than the labor for Suburban to bring MINE and install them. My builder has an HVAC company and typically installs the regulators and has the local company test before filling the tank. As I mentioned before, the local company could not deliver in the time we needed to backfill.

Per YouTube, this lock can be removed with a piece of 3/8", slightly flared, copper tubing. This is not an issue and will help keep any deplorables from emptying my tank. I can get the lock off. The lock goes inside the fitting where the regulator attaches.

Maybe I have my head in the sand, but this makes no sense to me. You bought the tank and the regulators, they belong to you, not the propane supplier. I understand they cannot hook up the regulators until you have something that uses propane to connect the gas line to. But why did they take the regulators with them when they left? They belong to you, not them. I see no reason why you can't have any qualified person of your choosing hook-up and check the regulators and run the gas line. I see no reason whatsoever why it has to be the propane supplier that does it.

Normally I am not a "sue happy" person, in fact, I am usually just the opposite. But sometimes things are just so screwed up that the only thing you can do is fight back with an attorney. I tend to think this is one of the those times. I would go there in person and tell them you want the regulators back right now or your next stop is to see an attorney about filing a lawsuit against them for theft, or whatever else the attorney can dream up.