propane heat...be careful

[Empty Pockets]

Because there was no "appliance" available when the tank was dropped in the ground and filled, "for safety reasons" they could not install the regulators and test them. "For my safety", they placed the lock on the tank.

When I argued about the regulators being mine, they said "yes they are yours and we will gladly give them to you when the appliance is in place". Their fee for returning to my property and installing the regulators is $125 per hour and the servicing location for my area is about 30-40 minutes away. If I know which regulators I need, I can probably buy new ones for less than the labor for Suburban to bring MINE and install them. My builder has an HVAC company and typically installs the regulators and has the local company test before filling the tank. As I mentioned before, the local company could not deliver in the time we needed to backfill.

Per YouTube, this lock can be removed with a piece of 3/8", slightly flared, copper tubing. This is not an issue and will help keep any deplorables from emptying my tank. I can get the lock off. The lock goes inside the fitting where the regulator attaches.

If you have proof that the regulator(s) are yours, might be easiest to file criminal charges. You'll get them back in a big hurry

 

[Travo131]

Maybe I have my head in the sand, but this makes no sense to me. You bought the tank and the regulators, they belong to you, not the propane supplier. I understand they cannot hook up the regulators until you have something that uses propane to connect the gas line to. But why did they take the regulators with them when they left? They belong to you, not them. I see no reason why you can't have any qualified person of your choosing hook-up and check the regulators and run the gas line. I see no reason whatsoever why it has to be the propane supplier that does it.

Normally I am not a "sue happy" person, in fact, I am usually just the opposite. But sometimes things are just so screwed up that the only thing you can do is fight back with an attorney. I tend to think this is one of the those times. I would go there in person and tell them you want the regulators back right now or your next stop is to see an attorney about filing a lawsuit against them for theft, or whatever else the attorney can dream up.

The reason they will not leave the regulators is because of insurance and company policy and NFPA 54 code. I am a Lp service tech and I install tanks and regs for a living. I'm sure what they want to do is a pressure test to make sure everything is safe before anything is fired up. Lets say they dropped the tank filled it and let the guy install everything himself and blew his house up. It would have been a code violation because they system was not properly tested.

 

[James-W]

The reason they will not leave the regulators is because of insurance and company policy and NFPA 54 code. I am a Lp service tech and I install tanks and regs for a living. I'm sure what they want to do is a pressure test to make sure everything is safe before anything is fired up. Lets say they dropped the tank filled it and let the guy install everything himself and blew his house up. It would have been a code violation because they system was not properly tested.

I get what you are saying, it's just that in this case the consumer bought the tank and the regulators so he should have the choice as to the qualified person he wants to hire to hook up the equipment and pressure test it. It would seem that the propane company is "demanding" that THEY be the ones to do it and they are holding "hostage" the regulators that he paid for. That just seems wrong to me and I don't see how they can legally do it. If the propane company owned the tank and the regulators, then I could see at least some sense to it. But since in this case the consumer owns everything, I don't see where the propane company can make ANY kinds of demands on the consumer other than the tank must be placed in a safe area and stuff like that. After all, the only interaction the consumer has with the propane company is that he is buying the propane from them. Other than that, everything belongs to the consumer, even the propane, after he pays for it.

Anyway, whatever the situation, it is up to the opening poster to get it resolved as best he can.

 

[toyotadriver]

Aren't liability and regulations great? We are all so much safer.

I'm so glad that where I live I don't have to deal with any of this carp. I deal with a local supplier and they are great to deal with and none of these problems.

 

[TheOtherChris]

WOW! There are some real LP horror stories out there.
We bought an old farm house that came with a 500gal tank. The mfg tag on the tank says it was built in 1949 and all the valves etc. are on the end (not the top).
I called an independent LP provider and said I wanted a new 1000gal tank for the house and the 500 moved to the barn. I asked them if the old tank would be a problem and they said they would test it.

They came out and checked the 500 and said it had the correct valves and pressure test was good then moved it to the barn/shop ran a new line and regulator and filled it. Then they placed the new 1000gal tank at the house and ran a new line and regulator and filled it.

No fuss no muss.

They reminded me that since I owned the tanks I was free to check prices with the other LP companies but that they were sure I would find they were cheapest.

They have been GREAT to work with for the last year.

 

[moriboy]

Suburban propane kept screwing with our pricing for years. Switched to Ferrell Gas and couldn't be happier.

 

[SiGmA_X]

I don't use propane now, but in the future I hope to live in a remote enough location that I will. Thanks for the warning about Suburban.

Question to all: How does servicing a underground tank work?

 

[BDT/NWMN]

I own a 500 gallon tank, and have no contract or price lock-in. Refilled last Tuesday for $1.15. Last fall the price was around $0.85 to $0.90.. Can't say that I have much to complain about at these prices. I am tempted to add a second 500 gallon or 1000 gallon tank to take advantage of the lower fall pricing. It wouldn't take long to recover the cost of buying a used tank.

 

[mountain_man]

This sounds like a similar problem that I had with Blossman Propane. If you have a blossman in your area, avoid them like the plague.

 

[dwysywd]

I have always purchased my tanks because rented tanks are subject to the tank owners' prices to fill. I have never seen a scenario, in TN, GA, VA or MI where I have lived and had propane at all my houses, where renting a tank allowed you to fill at another supplier. That is why I have always purchased my tank. And the when I sold each house, the new owners were always happy I included my tank in the sale. I know that when I have called suppliers in my area, every time they have asked for a copy of my tank ownership before filling.

 

[M-technik-3]

We have Suburban Propane in our area as well, I got a price quotes from them when I purchased my new place about 18 months ago and did not get the fuzzy feeling from them.

I used another family owned service that most folks have in my town. I'm on will call and we have a tank rental but as long as we use 120 gallons a year it's free, now we know that's built into the price but they say it's free. We use propane for our tankless h2o and our stove and clothes dryer. We need a fill up about once every 7 months.

That being said I really wish we had street feed natural gas but it would not be cost effective in our area to put the infrastructure in, unless it was a large commercial company vs a municipal done system. Our town has a population of just under 2K vs the the town next door being 50K we even have an LP pipeline that comes right through our town.

Most heat here with oil and supplement with alternatives aka pellet stoves or wood furnaces. I have a wood furnace and a pellet stove. Like the wood better because it heat the whole house vs pellet stove heats two rooms and warms the house.

 

[fastjohnny]

My son says the number of tanks sitting on my place makes me look like a dooms day prepper. So be it.

Shop around, let them know the volume you wish to purchase, fill in off-season.

 

[Garage Dog]

My propane supplier demonstrated that the local branch is nothing more than a den of thieves.

I am in process of changing suppliers. My current supplier took it upon themselves to top off my tank... at a price $1.50/gallon MORE than my new supplier and $1.00 more than October.

When I called to protest, I was dismissed, and told that they will... charge me $1.00 per gallon restocking fee.

I am besides myself with anger. Any suggestions?

As for suggestions, read your contract and understand what you have agreed to.

The pricing you describe sounds like gouging, did they know you wanted to change suppliers? I'm currently paying $1.099 for the season on a 500 gallon tank they own.

I think the branch manager is decent after I made it known I shopped prices and would switch if he wasn't competitive. Wild price swings all over here within 100 miles. I'm sure I would be better off with my own 1,000 gal tank.

Sorry to hear about your stress and frustration - seems like a really crappy way to treat people they want to retain as long term customers...

Take a few deep breaths and say: this to shall pass

GD

 

[bjcouche]

Buy your own tank,
Buy your own tank,
Buy your own tank.

For all those people that are renting their tanks and the company they buy propane from isn't putting the screws to them, I say good luck in the future.
IF you are being treated fine by a small local company now, who is to say that the local owner won't decide he wants to retire next month and sell the business to a large company who will gouge you?
I just got out from under the thumb of Amerigas. When I bought the property it was set up with a rented tank from a local company who had previously been bought out by Amerigas. I was on the lock in price, and keep it full plan. They never kept it full and only came when I called and complained that I was under 10%. Their lock in price was a rip off. The lock in price was higher than the market rate all year. For example, if the peak price in 2013 was $2.88 then my lock in rate for 2014 was $3.10.

This December I bought my own tank. Amerigas won't even sell me a tank. I had to purchase mine from a company 130 miles away and transport it to my house myself. A 500 gallon tank weighs right about 1,000lbs empty. I was about 25% in my rented tank. I had to have Amerigas remove their tank first before anybody else would connect my tank. While Amerigas was onsite removing their tank I decided I'd just have them purge and fill the new tank. That was a problem because the techs didn't have the necessary equipment to purge the new tank by filling it with propane vapor and get it to pressure prior to filling it with liquid. The tech said that Amerigas NEVER installs new tanks so they never have to deal with purging them. I had them fill the new tank with 400 gallons and they charged me $3.35/gal (1st week of Dec). The local average rate was $2.00. That 25% that was left in the rented tank? Well they took that for free without refunding my money for it. Supposedly they had no way to pump it out. Later when I called to inquire they stated that there couldn't have been more than 5% because that's the legal limit they are allowed to transport in the tanks....
By owning my own tank I calculate it will pay for itself in 1-2 years max.
When you rent a tank, you basically pay whatever the propane company wants to charge you. It's difficult to swap tanks in the middle of winter so the companies know they have you by the short hairs.
Brian

 

[Streetbu]

I forgot to mention, the current supplier is Suburban Propane. If you ever have the opportunity to do business with them, Run, don't walk away, as far and as fast as you can

we

I cannot believe ANYONE even thinks of dealing with them as a customer any more. There have been so many news reports about them screwing customers over. I thought it was so common everyone knew by now.

 

[foompla]

Buy your own tank,
Buy your own tank,
Buy your own tank.

For all those people that are renting their tanks and the company they buy propane from isn't putting the screws to them, I say good luck in the future.
IF you are being treated fine by a small local company now, who is to say that the local owner won't decide he wants to retire next month and sell the business to a large company who will gouge you?
I just got out from under the thumb of Amerigas. When I bought the property it was set up with a rented tank from a local company who had previously been bought out by Amerigas. I was on the lock in price, and keep it full plan. They never kept it full and only came when I called and complained that I was under 10%. Their lock in price was a rip off. The lock in price was higher than the market rate all year. For example, if the peak price in 2013 was $2.88 then my lock in rate for 2014 was $3.10.

This December I bought my own tank. Amerigas won't even sell me a tank. I had to purchase mine from a company 130 miles away and transport it to my house myself. A 500 gallon tank weighs right about 1,000lbs empty. I was about 25% in my rented tank. I had to have Amerigas remove their tank first before anybody else would connect my tank. While Amerigas was onsite removing their tank I decided I'd just have them purge and fill the new tank. That was a problem because the techs didn't have the necessary equipment to purge the new tank by filling it with propane vapor and get it to pressure prior to filling it with liquid. The tech said that Amerigas NEVER installs new tanks so they never have to deal with purging them. I had them fill the new tank with 400 gallons and they charged me $3.35/gal (1st week of Dec). The local average rate was $2.00. That 25% that was left in the rented tank? Well they took that for free without refunding my money for it. Supposedly they had no way to pump it out. Later when I called to inquire they stated that there couldn't have been more than 5% because that's the legal limit they are allowed to transport in the tanks....
By owning my own tank I calculate it will pay for itself in 1-2 years max.
When you rent a tank, you basically pay whatever the propane company wants to charge you. It's difficult to swap tanks in the middle of winter so the companies know they have you by the short hairs.
Brian

Thanks for the story Brian. My new home has a leased propane tank, where would be a good place to shop for one to buy?

 

[PugetDude]

9 days later, still no update on the contract...

 

[bjcouche]

To find a place to buy your own tank you can call around to different propane suppliers. Some sell tanks and some do not. You can buy new tanks or you can buy them used. Some of the used "refurbished" tanks are media blasted, repainted and the valves replaced. A new 500 gal tank will cost around $1200. That sounds expensive, but if your existing supplier is overcharging you $1 per gallon more than the market rate and you use 1,000gal per year, that's $1,000 right there. I've also seen some companies put adds up on Craigs list in my area. Be careful buying a used tank from a private owner, you need special permits to transport a tank that has any propane in it. If you buy it from a local propane company they can deliver and set it on the ground for you for a fee. Also, you'll need a bill of sale or no propane company will fill it for fear that it's leased from another company.
Brian

 

[Jon_E]

F**k Suburban.

They were my supplier for the past ten years. I have a 500 gallon buried tank. I had been trying for several months to switch suppliers from Suburban to Irving Energy and there was a total lack of communication. Finally on Christmas Eve I checked my tank and it read zero - nothing but fumes. I called Irving and asked them what the holdup was, they said that they could not get Suburban to commit to a tank swap and they couldn't fill my tank until that was completed. I called Suburban and told them that I was out (they knew I was changing suppliers) and could I get enough to tide me over until after New Years Day when the management could finish ironing the tank swap out? They said, sure, we can deliver a minimum, that's 150 gallons, at $4.29 a gallon, plus an "emergency fee" and a service charge since I said I was on empty. At the time, I think the local rack price was about 85 cents a gallon. I told them I'd rather freeze than commit to their extortion, and hung up.

A week later, Irving filled my tank for $1.32 per gallon and I am on an annual auto-fill.

I'm extra happy because Suburban also lost the contract to fill the tanks at my workplace and that's almost 1200 gallons a month. Also went to Irving.

 

[bjcouche]

Just thought I'd chime in again. I was charged $3.35 per gallon the 1st week of Dec by Amerigas when I had them pick up their rented tank and fill my purchased tank. The coop supplier I just called to fill me up again, 2.5 months later, is charging me $1.19 per gallon and I'll need about 350 gallons. Thus my savings thus far are
1.19*350=$417
3.35*350=$1173 (had I still been stuck with Amerigas)
Savings thus far this year= 1173-417=$756
At this rate paying $1200 to buy my own tank has a return on investment of less than 1 year or about 1 winter.
When you own your own tank you can switch suppliers at your own whim. You don't have to wait for one company to pick up their tank, leave you without heat, then wait for the next supplier to install their tank.
Brian

 

[mikester]

Back when I was looking into buying a heater for my garage the guy that was maintaining my boiler suggested buying a larger boiler, having two zones for the house, one for hot water, and a fourth for an air handler in my garage for hot air heat.

At the time I didnt think that was an affordable thing to do so I installed a propane fired Hotdawg. Long story short, three years later I had a new Biasi boiler installed because the old Peerless was shot. I should have taken the guys advice. I have a 1K gallon fuel tank that usually takes around 600+ every Fall. The price of fuel oil is pretty cheap compared to the propane that I get from Paraco. They are thieves. A few years ago they filled the tank and tried to charge me almost $6.00 a gallon. Its like a game every Fall. The driver comes, fills the tank, hands me the bill and tells me not to be pissed at the price. I go in and call the office, rant and rave, and they send me a new adjusted bill for less. Its a pain in the ***.
If I would have listened to the other guy I would have been using oil and not getting bent over every year. Plus with the air handler I could have had AC out there for not much more money.

 

[saewoody]

Paperwork is coming from the New York State Attorney General's office, and a complaint will be filed.



Generally a letter on Attorney General Letterhead will get their attention.

That's exactly what I was going to suggest. My buddy works for the Attorney's General office, and that is always exactly what he says. It will get their attention.


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