ranger101ran
Well-known member
Does anyone on hear heat their house with propane and if so what do you think of it.
Propane heat
- Thread starter ranger101ran
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beemerphile
Well-known member
Works great. Costs like crazy. Not bad for supplemental heat, but painful as a primary.
Chevy-SS
Well-known member
I've seen a few here use it as primary. I was shocked.
Yankeefarmer
Well-known member
Around these parts, where natural gas is not available, new houses are all being heated with propane instead of heating oil.
beemerphile
Well-known member
Heat Pumps these days are doing much better at low outside temperatures. One example is Mitsubishi HyperHeat. I'd be doing that or something similar with propane as supplement. I traded out an oil fueled boiler for propane when I was living in upstate New York in order to get away from the maintenance associated with an oil fired boiler. It came at a cost. I'd rather have propane than oil.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
About 30 years ago, my in-laws built a house in a new sub in NW NC. The builder recommended a central heat pump system plus a couple of propane gas log fireplaces as backup. A few years later they got a new neighbor with a new house. Every year be complained about his propane bill and my in-laws never had to refill the tank (purchased and buried). Sure their electric bill was high in winter, but much less than the neighbor's propane bill !
Propane and electric heat generally are about the same price wise. A heat pump may be less money to operate, but most will not heat below 10-20 degrees, excluding some of the mini splits, so you often need a second heat source.
If you have natural gas availble is is generally less monry that any other source.
If you have natural gas availble is is generally less monry that any other source.
Skiff Builder
Well-known member
House is going on 55 years of propane heat- 33 of them mine. It was clean... still running original 1967 boiler. NJ dealers are unethical thieving players in my experience- constant battle to keep them
somewhat honest. Oil as an alternative fuel did not appeal.
Now at a place with nat gas and liking it.
Suggested to new owner to investigate mini's.
somewhat honest. Oil as an alternative fuel did not appeal.
Now at a place with nat gas and liking it.
Suggested to new owner to investigate mini's.
toyotadriver
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I have a dual fuel heat pump and a propane backup furnace. LOVE it! Cheap heat when it's not too cold outside and nice hot heat when it's very cold outside. Unless you live in a very cold climate, I highly recommend the dual fuel system.
I also love the idea I can store propane for my house and I can also run the propane furnace from a small generator.
We also cook with propane (much better than electric) and have two water heaters....a heat pump water heater and a propane water heater.
I also love the idea I can store propane for my house and I can also run the propane furnace from a small generator.
We also cook with propane (much better than electric) and have two water heaters....a heat pump water heater and a propane water heater.
HeadsUp
Well-known member
Our house was built in 2016. The forced air furnace is fueled by propane. I usually try to lock in the price in April or May. This year I forgot to lock in until October. Not my best decision.
yes, and i love it. let me know if you have anymore questions
OP
ranger101ran
Well-known member
Right now I heat with oil and the furnace is 18 years old and it still operates well the oil tank is old and I need to replace it. Got estimates between 3500 and 5000. I like the idea of having no oil tank and the oil furnace. The last 5 years I have replaced the roof and windows. The heating system would be my last big upgrade. Do you have your tank underground or above ground.
I have a 1000 gal, above ground. if i could have got my hands on an underground i would have went that way. Just cuz it would not have been as an eye sore.
I hate oil, to dirty. to much maintenance.
Anything you go with, make sure you have a back up heat when the power goes out
Shocked ????. Seems like an odd comment ?
Generally choices for home heating are
Natgas
Propane
Fuel oil
Electric
Wood
Solar
All have certain availability issues, efficiencies and cost associated with them. Some better than others highly variable by location.
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Many places use LPG as a primary heat source.
Around here is is probably the first choice if you do not have natural gas available. Electric is probably number two and oil is slowly dying as it requires regular service.
OP
ranger101ran
Well-known member
I have 2 fire places and a whole house generator. I have someone coming out to give me a price tomorrow on a propane furnace , they deal with Rheem furnaces.
Propane prices have spiked in the last ~12 months. Some areas have seen prices double.
If you go propane, buy your tank, don't rent it. If you rent it, you're locked into your supplier and can't shop around pricing.
I was initially planning on heating my shop with propane until the prices spiked. Ended up going electric. Cost per BTU ended up about the same, electric boiler was cheaper. Plus here, the price of electricity is regulated, if not expensive. Propane prices are not and they were forecasted to go higher. Right now, they are forecasted to drop a bit, but it's still ~55% higher than it was last year at this time.
If you go propane, buy your tank, don't rent it. If you rent it, you're locked into your supplier and can't shop around pricing.
I was initially planning on heating my shop with propane until the prices spiked. Ended up going electric. Cost per BTU ended up about the same, electric boiler was cheaper. Plus here, the price of electricity is regulated, if not expensive. Propane prices are not and they were forecasted to go higher. Right now, they are forecasted to drop a bit, but it's still ~55% higher than it was last year at this time.
Natgas prices have also spiked……….doubled over the last year.
GJ has 10 prior threads on the price increases.
I would check you calculations ………even with the recent increases electric boiler as NOT cheap to run and rarely less expensive than Natgas or propane.
Those electric rates will not stay low is the energy issues persist…….regulated or not they will be asking to rate increases.
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Heat pumps keep getting better .....many can get 3 COP at rather cold temps. That's 3 times resistance output.
I pay about 19 per kilowat and my last propane delivery was in the $2.50 range. Getting 100k BTU's of heat using 95 eficiency boiler out of propane is about $2.90 and it would cost 5.28 for electric resistance. But -- say you have a heat pump that's 3 COP . That's now $1.76 of electric use ... divide the cost by the COP
My initial fill was less ..... at $1.50 a gallon propane would match a 3 cop heatpump running with .19 electric
I pay about 19 per kilowat and my last propane delivery was in the $2.50 range. Getting 100k BTU's of heat using 95 eficiency boiler out of propane is about $2.90 and it would cost 5.28 for electric resistance. But -- say you have a heat pump that's 3 COP . That's now $1.76 of electric use ... divide the cost by the COP
My initial fill was less ..... at $1.50 a gallon propane would match a 3 cop heatpump running with .19 electric
finn
Well-known member
I switched my shop from fuel oil to a propane boiler. Best improvement I made to the shop. Clean, reliable, and zero maintenance.
The house went to a propane boiler from electric resistance. Big operating cost reduction there too. I do run the heat pump mini splits in the shoulder season, and use the wood stove until late October as supplemental heat.
One of the mini splits, in my wife’s tv room, is a hyper heat Mitsubishi. It struggles when the outdoor temperature drops below ten below. I couldn’t rely on mini splits to heat the whole house all winter.
Propane is the only viable alternative to fuel oil in my situation
The house went to a propane boiler from electric resistance. Big operating cost reduction there too. I do run the heat pump mini splits in the shoulder season, and use the wood stove until late October as supplemental heat.
One of the mini splits, in my wife’s tv room, is a hyper heat Mitsubishi. It struggles when the outdoor temperature drops below ten below. I couldn’t rely on mini splits to heat the whole house all winter.
Propane is the only viable alternative to fuel oil in my situation
OP
ranger101ran
Well-known member
Thanks for your reply, so those mini splits are heat pumps. I have the company coming out Thursday to give me an estimate. It will consist of removing the oil furnace and tank and installing the new furnace, they sell Rheem furnaces. I'm not sure if I should buy or rent the tank , what's your idea on the tanks.
American Locomotive
Well-known member
Both propane and heating oil are absurdly expensive in New England. To the point where it would almost be more cost effective to run straight electric heat. I don't know how big your house is, but I would seriously look into a mini-split heat pump. A modern mini-split would do very well in Ct. It would be by far the cheapest way to heat your house if you don't have access to Natural Gas.
If it were mine, I'd just change the oil tank, keep the oil furnace as is and get a mini-split. When the oil furnace dies, replace it with a propane unit.
Is your oil tank underground or something? $3500 sounds like an absolutely outrageously high cost. Oil tanks are like $700 new at Home Depot and take maybe an hour to change out provided you run the tank down low before changing. ...and why do you think you need to replace it? Most oil tanks I see around here are at least 30+ years old.
If it were mine, I'd just change the oil tank, keep the oil furnace as is and get a mini-split. When the oil furnace dies, replace it with a propane unit.
Is your oil tank underground or something? $3500 sounds like an absolutely outrageously high cost. Oil tanks are like $700 new at Home Depot and take maybe an hour to change out provided you run the tank down low before changing. ...and why do you think you need to replace it? Most oil tanks I see around here are at least 30+ years old.
Duke74
Well-known member
I live in Western Canada where we can see colder than -40 in winter. We heat our whole house with just a propane furnace. If I fill our 1000 gallon tank in the fall, I can heat the whole year for about $1700.
240sxguy
Well-known member
Our house was propane when we moved in. First thing I did was convert to natural gas that had been piped down the street about 8 years prior. It worked fine with propane, but we went through a lot and very fast. This wasn't the propane though, it was the fact that this house is very leaky (which we're improving on).
You'll have to forgive my use of the metric system but, 1L of propane is roughly equivalent to 7 kWh of electricity. Since the only propane device I would have had would be the boiler, my overall use would be fairly low, so I'm not going to get any volume discount pricing. Right now, I'd be looking at ~$1.15/L delivered (works out to ~$3.46USD/gallon). The number will have an additional $0.06/L of carbon taxes added to starting April 1. By comparison I pay ~$0.125/kWh for electricity including all taxes, fees etc. Or $0.875 for an equivalent amount of electricity vs 1 Litre of propane.
I'm assuming the efficiency of the boilers are both 100%, but I know that's not the case. It would actually tilt the field further towards electric. Happy for someone to critique the math, I always assumed and was told electricity (resistance heating, not heat pump) was the most expensive way to heat a place.
No, electricity rates won't stay the same forever. But here our electricity prices are tied to the price of Nat Gas either. We're mostly nuclear and hydro. Less than 5% of our generating capacity comes from Nat Gas.
What could have stopped me was if I would have had to upgrade the service to my property. The 11KW boiler I have uses ~45A at full draw. but I did have the spare capacity both on the main service and the service to the garage.
Using imperial, (USA) units of measure LPG per gallon is 26.76 times a KWH of electricity, so if you pay 10 cents per KWH, LPG would be $2.67 per gallon to equal out, but don't forget the efficiency of the equipment. 80% efficiency drops the number down to $2.13, 90% about $2.40 a gallon.
As you are currently heating with oil, check your homeowners policy to see if you have an “oil tank leakage” exclusion on your policy. There was a young couple in Wareham recently who have basically lost their house due to an oil spill and it was not covered in their homeowners policy. I pulled all the duct work out of my home. I installed mini-splits, two singles and a dual upstairs. I have a Rinnai DV and a small gas VT Castings DV on LP. We only use the LP when it gets cold. I just paid $3.15/gal on my 100# tank I run the shop off. I have solar on the place so the mini-splits are zero cost of operation.
Yankeefarmer
Well-known member
The economics of one heating source vs. another are not constant. When I evaluated how to heat my new shop, choosing between a heat pump or propane, we were paying 15 cents/kw-hr. The heat pump won out. I did that evaluation over two years ago, and purchased my equipment about 1-1/2 years ago. My December electricity cost was 19 cents/kw-hr, and last months bill was at over 24 cents/kw-hr!
I still am very satisfied with my decision. No tank to monitor, propane delivery to schedule, or big lump sum bills to pay to fill the tank. I get all those pleasures from the heating oil we burn for our house.
I still am very satisfied with my decision. No tank to monitor, propane delivery to schedule, or big lump sum bills to pay to fill the tank. I get all those pleasures from the heating oil we burn for our house.
WOW! 24 cents a KWH! That is like $6 LPG!The economics of one heating source vs. another are not constant. When I evaluated how to heat my new shop, choosing between a heat pump or propane, we were paying 15 cents/kw-hr. The heat pump won out. I did that evaluation over two years ago, and purchased my equipment about 1-1/2 years ago. My December electricity cost was 19 cents/kw-hr, and last months bill was at over 24 cents/kw-hr!
I still am very satisfied with my decision. No tank to monitor, propane delivery to schedule, or big lump sum bills to pay to fill the tank. I get all those pleasures from the heating oil we burn for our house.
Of course the HP has the increased efficiency, but it probably averages closer to a COP of 2 than 3 as the performance drops off in colder weather.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Electric resistance heat is cheap to install but very expensive to operate. Propane s the same price a natural gas to install, but more expensive than natural gas to operate and less expensive than electric resistance heat.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
How is your cold weather performance, including below 0°F ?I still am very satisfied with my decision. No tank to monitor, propane delivery to schedule, or big lump sum bills to pay to fill the tank. I get all those pleasures from the heating oil we burn for our house.
Generally, you are correct! But it wasn't that many years ago LPG prices went trough the roof! $6-$7 a gallon was not unusual.
Plus in my area you can get off peak electric heat rates for 4-5 cents a KWH so LPG would have to be under about $1.2 or less depending on the efficiency of your equipment.
toyotadriver
Well-known member
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- Dec 30, 2010
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However, those who had large enough propane tanks to only fill once per year when prices were lowest, didn’t care or worry about the winter prices.
Yankeefarmer
Well-known member
Completely satisfactory so far. The coldest temp I’ve seen here was about -18F several years ago. Coldest it got here this winter was -1, and the heat pump was happy to just warm the shop up from its overnight setting of 45 to my daytime setting of 61 just like it has done most days since November. It’s an inverter split system with conventional air handler.
Not everyone has that option. there is lot more than residences running LPG.
Farmers running grain driers for example. They already have one or two 1,000 gallon tanks and burn through it pretty fast.
I remember walking through a huge church. They were trying to deal with $6 a gallon LPG and running through about 800 gallons a month! Can you imagine buying LPG for $1 one winter, then $6 the next and burning somewhere around 4,000 gallons a heating season? $4,000 one year for heat, $24,000 the next.
I also had a couple customers that brought in LPG by the train car! Imagine 33,000 gallons at a time? And several of them? Now I would guess they contract it out at that usage, but is not certianly less per gallon that the homeowner price, but wow, that is a chunk of money!
OP
ranger101ran
Well-known member
My oil tank is in the basement so I can easily see if it's leaking. If I don't end up going with the propane I'm replacing the oil tank right away because it's time.
So you are gone at working the morning, or on a trip, what ever, gone its gone. The tank decides that is the time to start leaking. Maybe the guy that flared the oil tubing to the furnace did a poor job and after a bunch of years it fails. So it leaks, and fuel oil runs down through the crack between the foundation and the floor. Maybe it is a small drip and you don't even notice it.
Look up residential fuel oil spills and see, but a small leak can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars in damage.
There is cases where people have had their homes moved out of the way and excavators brought in and they keep digging down until the stop finding oil, then they fill the hole and build a foundation to set your house on.
If you have an fuel oil tank on your property, buy insurance that will cover any spills or leaks.
OP
ranger101ran
Well-known member
I'm retired so I'm home most of the time and if it does leak it's in the basement which is all cement with no wood any where near it. I am insured if anything happens. If I do travel my neighbor checks every day. Bought the house in 1972 and take good care of everything and I'm not really worried about it.
Make damned sure you are insured!
It is a life changing event if it happens and you are not!