Propane heater size for 30x30 shop

[racerboy]

So i has a local propane co. come out to talk about switching out the tank that is supposed to fuel my generator but has not been hooked up for past 3 years (don’t ask). Anyway, I also need another tank for my cooktop which currently just runs off a 20lb. tank sitting on my patio and just piped into the house (previous owner converted cooktop from electric to propane and clearly this was a poor DIY hub). Anyway, the propane co. recommended putting the tank for the cooktop along the wall of my 30x30 shop (connected to house) and then running a proper install (black pipe, regulator, etc.). I asked about installing another tank for purposes of running a propane heater in garage and they said it would be no problem having multiple tanks in that location.

Now my question, what size heater would i install? Like I said, shop is 30x30 with 12’ ceilings. Would 50kbtu be a good size? I saw another member was using this for a 24x24 shop so figured it was close. Also, what brand is best?

I live in northern NJ and would really only use the heat on weekends.


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[Jackfre]

Rinnai EX38 (13,200-36,500 on LP) will walk away with that space.

 

[Skiff Builder]

I'm heating a weekend only 32x34x10 with 30k. 2x4 walls no floor insulation, all walls exposed. Exit 58, no prob to 80 deg.

18x27x12, 2x4 walls, all exposed,r30 ceiling with 25k. Exit 172- hot as I want it.

May I ask who your ppane supplier is?

 

[racerboy]

Sent you PM


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[racerboy]

Rinnai EX38 (13,200-36,500 on LP) will walk away with that space.

Thanks. Ouch. I just did a quick google search and it came up around $2500. Does that sound right?


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[cadunkle]

Rinnai EX38 (13,200-36,500 on LP) will walk away with that space.

I see these units recommended frequently here. At 2x-3x the cost of a traditional unit heater for the same efficiency, lower heat output, and taking up usable wall space instead of unusable (for most) ceiling space... What is the advantage?

 

[AldeanFan]

I have a mr heater 50k I’m my 20x20 and it’s more than I need but it was the smallest size readily available,
5 years and going strong.


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[Showkey]

Thanks. Ouch. I just did a quick google search and it came up around $2500. Does that sound right?


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I see these units recommended frequently here. At 2x-3x the cost of a traditional unit heater for the same efficiency, lower heat output, and taking up usable wall space instead of unusable (for most) ceiling space... What is the advantage?

They are high quality but have two BIG issues you both found..........price and wall space.

 

[Jackfre]

I see these units recommended frequently here. At 2x-3x the cost of a traditional unit heater for the same efficiency, lower heat output, and taking up usable wall space instead of unusable (for most) ceiling space... What is the advantage?

Well, there is heat and there is comfort. The Rinnai delivers both. The Rinnai has a modulating gas valve and blower delivering a consistent temperature in the space rather than the sine wave curve of a single stage appliance. The vent is included and only requires a 2.5" hole in the wall with a clearance to a door or window of 9". I almost always put them below a window for that reason. The programmable t'stat is built in and very robust. They are cool to the touch and quiet. The heat is at the floor. They stand off the wall about a foot and are not very tall. They are the most reliable gas appliance I have ever seen over my 55 yrs in the business. I installed one for a friend on Sat. It took 90 minutes.
These Rinnai's were introduced to the US market in '91. I handled that introduction in the six New England States. Nationally, the majority are sold in ME, NH & VT. After 28 years in the market just over 10,000 of them were sold into that market again last year. We estimate that 5% of all the homes and apartments in Vt have a Rinnai in them, although as the desire for AC grows in that market some are replaced with mini-splits, which I also introduced to that market. In a serious heat market I know of no other product that has had as consistent a life cycle as the Rinnai's. It must be that they are a good value in the eyes of those tightwad Yankees Whenever we talk about a product it comes down to good/bad, cheap/expensive. Being retired now I spend a good deal of my time in my shop and one of the best things out there is that Rinnai. I am really comfortable both from a temperature and audio standpoint. If you want cheap, there is plenty of it down the road. If you want the quality, value and comfort nothing will touch the Rinnai. I've had them in my homes, basements, garages and shops for the last 29 years and would not be without them.

 

[racerboy]

I finally got the walls Sheetrocked and painted and the epoxy floor installed, so now I'm down to installing heat (and air lines). Would something like this Hot Dawg 75K be too big for the space? I much prefer a ceiling mount to anything that takes up any floor space.

 

[racerboy]

Here’s a shot of the ‘almost complete’ shop. Like I said, I want to add heat and air lines. I’m also having a couple of LiftMaster openers installed.



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[racerboy]

Or would an infrared tube heater be a better choice? I do t have access to NG, so LP has to be the fuel. I’m in the process of having the propane co. give me an estimate on putting in a tank dedicated for the garage.

I think I mentioned this before, but I’m guessing that using baseboard hot water heat (and tying into my house boiler) probably wouldn’t be the most efficient, correct?


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[racerboy]

I’m not opposed to the Rinnai option that Jack suggested, I’m just not sure where that could be located in the shop without giving up any floor space.


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[iced98lx]

Or would an infrared tube heater be a better choice? I do t have access to NG, so LP has to be the fuel. I’m in the process of having the propane co. give me an estimate on putting in a tank dedicated for the garage.

I think I mentioned this before, but I’m guessing that using baseboard hot water heat (and tying into my house boiler) probably wouldn’t be the most efficient, correct?


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Depending on boiler size in the house you could do a Hydronic Unit heater (uses hot water coil to make heat) upsides is no exhuast/combustion down side is piping hot water (and a thermostat) from the boiler to the garage, added load on the boiler, need an additional zone for the garage. They, just like LP/NG unit heaters come in a wide variety of prices and features from basic 1 speed fan units that are pretty dang cheap to more feature rich units that multiple fan speeds.

 

[racerboy]

Thanks for the feedback. I’ll definitely add this to the list of possibilities. I already have baseboard heat into the bathroom into the shop. In addition, there is an unused zone on my boiler (which sits in my basement, almost directly under my shop bathroom). How do I know if my boiler could handle the added capacity?

As I go through all the options, the LP infrared heat really appeals to me. I especially like the idea that it is silent, but it also seems to be the most expensive. [emoji20]


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[Jackfre]

In a garage/shop I like to position them closer to the corner blowing across the face of the doors. I'm going to build a bench over mine this winter. I will leave a space to pull the filter out for cleaning. Nothing in front of it.
By the time you buy and air handler, circ and associated parts you will be into it for as much as the Rinnai and that EX38 in your space will give you better comfort than anything other than radiant. a mini-split would be your other option.

 

[racerboy]

In a garage/shop I like to position them closer to the corner blowing across the face of the doors. I'm going to build a bench over mine this winter. I will leave a space to pull the filter out for cleaning. Nothing in front of it.
By the time you buy and air handler, circ and associated parts you will be into it for as much as the Rinnai and that EX38 in your space will give you better comfort than anything other than radiant. a mini-split would be your other option.

Are you suggesting that you would place the heater closer to the front of the garage (where doors are) as opposed to the rear of the garage (workbench)? Just trying to visualize the install. In that scenario, floor space is less a premium (to me).


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[jvitez]

Or would an infrared tube heater be a better choice? ........................I think I mentioned this before, but I’m guessing that using baseboard hot water heat (and tying into my house boiler) probably wouldn’t be the most efficient, correct?

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1. Here is Soviet Canuckistan I recently received a quote on Sterling 25k btu radiant tube heater in NG: $825.64 CDN for the heater alone, no install.

http://mesteksa.com/fileuploads/Literature/Sterling Gas Products/Indoor Products/RSG-1.pdf

They also come in 35k and 45k btu, in NG and propane, made in USA AFAIK. Infrared heat is always more comfortable than fan forced, unless it's a multi-fire modulating unit like a house furnace or the Rinnai units.

2. Do you mean efficient, cost effective, or cheap? Efficiency would be whatever rating your boiler is, plus the electric cost of running a circulating pump and the fan coil fan. I suspect running black pipe to a dedicated shop heater would be a somewhat cheaper installation cost than tying in to your house boiler.

Personally, I'd rather have a dedicated shop heater. If the house boiler or the shop heater stop working, you're not out both at the same time, plus it means less load on your boiler.

Nice shop BTW, love the floor and the colour scheme, industrial but soothing at the same time. I also picked a pale gray for my garage walls.

 

[iced98lx]

Thanks for the feedback. I’ll definitely add this to the list of possibilities. I already have baseboard heat into the bathroom into the shop. In addition, there is an unused zone on my boiler (which sits in my basement, almost directly under my shop bathroom). How do I know if my boiler could handle the added capacity?

As I go through all the options, the LP infrared heat really appeals to me. I especially like the idea that it is silent, but it also seems to be the most expensive. [emoji20]


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Boiler sizing has to do with it's original intended use, though more and more contractors are oversizing assuming a modulating boiler solves most things. It's worth reaching out to whoever did the boiler install to see if they have docs on their Heat loss calc and what you have installed, you may have some headroom that you could use for the garage.

Radiant heat is for me far and away the best heat. Maybe a water unit heater isn't ideal, have you looked at water ceiling panels?

If you're looking for radiant you will probably end up spending more than a simple gas fired (or water powered) unit heater. If you've got the budget I think radiant is worth it, especially in a shop, but that's my opinion.

You are in a situation where you're retrofitting so a unit heater or radiant tube powered by LP is probably the least obtrusive.

 

[tarmy]

My shop is 32x56...10ft. high...snow country. Reznor...cheap and easy. Propane.

 

[VtecGSR95]

I have a 40x64x16 shop, spray foam insulation, cellulose in ceiling.

I opted for hanging Modine 200K BTU heater (found a deal locally).

The reason I went with a unit heater, I was told tube heaters are best for places where doors will be opened and closed a lot, as the recovery time is much faster due to the objects being heated, not the air. I wont be opening my door much, and its been said that warmer air or more comfortable than warm objects......and I dont plan to lay on the floor, so this made the most sense to me.

 

[yeldogt]

I have a 40x64x16 shop, spray foam insulation, cellulose in ceiling.

I opted for hanging Modine 200K BTU heater (found a deal locally).

The reason I went with a unit heater, I was told tube heaters are best for places where doors will be opened and closed a lot, as the recovery time is much faster due to the objects being heated, not the air. I wont be opening my door much, and its been said that warmer air or more comfortable than warm objects......and I dont plan to lay on the floor, so this made the most sense to me.

with that size heater you can leave the doors open .....

Hope it's NG .... way too big for maintaining

 

[Jackfre]

You want it to run into free space for the best air circulation. If that is by the door then it will handle the space. You have a well built 900 sq ft place. The 38 will provide a very even temp in that space due to the modulating gas valve and blower. They are designed to continue to run to provide consistent even temp across the space. You can definitely heat the pace with a single stage unit heater, but they are loud and you will not have the same level of comfort. You can heat the place by building a camp fire in the middle of the room. Once you dismiss that as an option it is a question of features and benefits. You have a really nice spot there. How do you want to finish it?

 

[TractorJeff]

I am 30 by 30 by 12 with a Hot Dawg 50K, a Door to the West and a Door to the South (both directions the wind blows).

 

[racerboy]

You want it to run into free space for the best air circulation. If that is by the door then it will handle the space. You have a well built 900 sq ft place. The 38 will provide a very even temp in that space due to the modulating gas valve and blower. They are designed to continue to run to provide consistent even temp across the space. You can definitely heat the pace with a single stage unit heater, but they are loud and you will not have the same level of comfort. You can heat the place by building a camp fire in the middle of the room. Once you dismiss that as an option it is a question of features and benefits. You have a really nice spot there. How do you want to finish it?

Jack
Does the Rinnai sit on the floor or mount to the wall at floor level? The first 3’ of my wall is cinderblock. Does that complicate things? Do you have any photos of installed units? I’m


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[yeldogt]

OP -- it looks like a well built shop -- what the insulation? doors tight?

It's only 900sf .... keeping that space at a decent temp is very doable in NJ -- my PA studio is 1700 sf and I do it with a unit like jack is describing. The nice thing about them is the easy install and they make less noise vs the hanging units -- also sealed combustion. They bring in outside air for combustion -- heat at the floor where it should be.

You need to get some ideas on the propane .... why not buy a 1000g tank and have it do the whole property. Pay once and be done with it.

What is the house heated with? you don't mention it in the propane discussion. OIL? If so I;m betting oversize for the house and it could be utilized to run a fan convector in the garage if the piping can be done. You would need a zone valve or pump -- you have to get a load done on the house and shop and match it to the boiler

 

[racerboy]

I have Rockwool throughout. I think R-15 in the walls and R-30 in the ceiling. I’m replacing the bottom door seals when they come to install the LiftMasters. I also have two other regular doors, and I noticed the one needs a lower seal as well.

How big is a 1000 gal propane tank? Where would you even buy something like that. My house runs on oil but I’m ok with using propane for the shop. Seems like those Rinnair units are pretty easy to install, I’m just not sure where I’d put it.


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[racerboy]

If I converted the house to run in propane, would I need a whole new boiler?

Is propane better than oil? There is no NG near me.


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[Showkey]

If I converted the house to run in propane, would I need a whole new boiler?

Is propane better than oil? There is no NG near me.


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Propane is cleaner, has less odor, tank outside, less maintenance, Possible device can be higher efficiency, PVC a venting, most areas propane is less cost. Oil tank can be an environmental challenge.