Propane or electric for 30x40?

[shawn84&92]

I have done a lot of searching, to try to figure out which is the best and most affordable heat for my 30x40x11.
I have found some that say electric is way to expensive and some that say the same about electric.

I am in Arkansas, will be at the shop on weekends and maybe one or two evenings for a couple of hours. I am looking at propane, because I don't want a monthly gas bill. Looking at Big Maxx 80,000 btu with 100 gallon tank. Cost to fill tank is $80. The electric heater in my price range is a 10,000 watt.

Right now I only have double bubble insulation, but I am going to do r30 in ceiling and r19 in walls.

What do you guys think or have experience with?
Thanks,
Shawn

 

[ddawg16]

It sounds like your being smart with the insulation....that is some of your best spent money...

Since you don't want a monthly gas bill....propane will most likely be your best choice.....assuming your propane costs are not bad....one issue is that you need a tank....

The advantage of electric.....heaters are cheap and you only pay for what you use....

Find out what your propane cost....

1 gallon of propane is abou 91,000 BTU's...
1 KWh is 3412 BTU's

Or, in other words....it takes a little over 26 KWh to equal one gallon of propane...if your paying $0.14/Khw, then it will cost your about $3.74 for the same cost as one gallon of propane....

 

[shawn84&92]

It sounds like your being smart with the insulation....that is some of your best spent money...

Since you don't want a monthly gas bill....propane will most likely be your best choice.....assuming your propane costs are not bad....one issue is that you need a tank....

The advantage of electric.....heaters are cheap and you only pay for what you use....

Find out what your propane cost....

1 gallon of propane is abou 91,000 BTU's...
1 KWh is 3412 BTU's

Or, in other words....it takes a little over 26 KWh to equal one gallon of propane...if your paying $0.14/Khw, then it will cost your about $3.74 for the same cost as one gallon of propane....

Thanks for the reply ddawg,
So it looks like $3.74 of electricity to equal 1 gallon of propane means that the $80 it takes to fill my 100 gallon tank is equal to $374 for the same amount of electricity. If I figured that correctly.

Propane may be the cheapest way to go, I can get a tank for $129 and my local KOA fills it for around $80.

 

[ddawg16]

Wow....that's cheap propane.....

Your savings will be less if you pay less for electric.....hopefully someone will double check my math.....

But at $0.80/gal for propane....that is a bargan.....

BTW...that is per gallon and not per pound?

 

[CNGsaves]

Sounds like you have incredibly cheap refill cost for the 100 gal propane tank . . . . really TOO low?? I'd sure double check that price as $0.80/gallon for Propane does NOT sound right. Typical rural refill of propane tanks by farmer COOP's here in KS generally run around $1.60/gallon for propane. On high end, places like U-Haul and rental companies charge around $3.80 to $4/gallon for propane . . OUCH!!

Before you commit to either system, take a 5 gallon BBQ size propane tank to KOA and see IF really only costs you $4 . . . . I seriously doubt that.

 

[58Yeoman]

I think you've confused the 100 POUND tank with a 100 GALLON tank. The uprights that you can haul in your pickup are 100#, not gallons. I've got a 120 gallon 'pig' that is horizontal on the ground, and at last weeks rate of $1.41 would cost me $135.00 if it was new and empty (filling to 80%). It's easy to get confused with gallons/pounds.

 

[AMCguy]

I'm sure he meant $80. For a 100# bottle fill.

I have a 32'x32'x14.5' shop and have been heating it with a single 4,800 watt construction heater. I keep an oil filled heater on continuously on low. This keeps the chill off. For added comfort I use the construction heater on evenings and weekends. This ads less than $100./month to my electricity bill.

 

[theoldwizard1]

A 100# tank (assuming it really holds 100# of LP) is about 22-23 gallons. At $0.80/gallon that is between $17-$19, which is VERY cheap !

I think I paid around $15 dollars to fill up my 20# (4.78 gallon) tank, which is over $3.10/gallon or $0.75/pound.

 

[ddawg16]

A 100 lb tank hols 23.8 gallons at 25 deg C.....

Which changes the whole picture.....the cost is pretty much a wash now.....

 

[djjsr]

Verify your costs for propane and electricity and use an energy cost calculator.

This one covers just about any fuel .......

http://nepacrossroads.com/fuel-comparison-calculator.php

 

[kenfath]

"I am looking at propane, because I don't want a monthly gas bill."

Does this mean you have natural gas available? Seems to me there will be a bill irrespective of the fuel used.

 

[Scoutman]

I've also been running the numbers trying to decide what route to go. Keep in mind too that for those 22-23 gallons for a 100# upright cylinder you will only get about 50 hours of run time on a 40,000 btu heater. I was surprised at how quick I ran through a tank for just our home fireplace (supplemental, not primary heat). If you are really going to use this thing then you may find that you're hauling this tank down to get filled every few weeks which may get old.

I hadn't thought much about using electric to heat the shop but after running the numbers it may make more sense. Our cost for electric is $0.09771 per kwh which means that it would cost $2.54 for the same number of BTU's that a gallon of propane would put out. A gallon of propane here is running close to $4 (winter rate) and is probably more along the $2 per gal summer rate.

Right now I run the torpedo propane heater at 40,000 btu and I HATE the noise and the smell. I've got to find something better.

 

[skyking]

Dont mean to hijack,but maybe it will help. I have a well insulated hangar(50x40x12 ).I am thinking of going with an infrared gas or propane. Dont know how big.I have gas in the house and would like it run from the attic down the outside wall,then underground to the hangar 80' away. I cant find a plumber willing to do it.I could run propane but I dont another bill and ugly bottle. Thinking of running the gas line from the attic myself.Thoughts ?

 

[shawn84&92]

You guys are right, I confused pounds and gallons, that does change things quite a bit.

 

[jvitez]

I posted a thread about exactly this issue.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=174194

It's all about your relative costs for each type of fuel for starters, then capital vs operating costs. Do you need to spend $2K on propane heaters vs $500 on electric heaters?

 

[Highbeam]

The only right way to compare fuel costs is with a fuel cost calculator that requires the cost per unit of fuel and also considers efficiency of the fuel burner.

When figuring out your cost per kwh of electricity is is an error to do anything except divide your current total bill by the total number of kwh consumed for the period. In other words, you must include all the BS tax and charges that make up the cost of your power.

In the end, folks often find that electricity is cheaper to heat with than propane. Shocking for sure since we have had it beat into our heads that electricity is so expensive.

There are other benefits of using electricity for heat such as no chimney, no poison exhaust, no open flames, and an endless supply already delivered to the shop. The drawback is that electric heaters take lots of amps so your service to the shop needs to be stout.

 

[CNGsaves]

To OP (Shawn in Arkansas), did you call around for better prices for Propane??

My guess is KOA is at HIGHEST end of scale anyway . . . ie like the $4/gal that U-Haul and other propane vendors ripping off unsuspecting customers. That's the approx price (just under $4/gal) your 100 pound propane tank (ie say 23 gallons) will be costing you, plus you have to drag it around refilling.

With limited natural gas service in whole state of AR due to terrain, propane is very popular so there are likely much cheaper sources than KOA. I'd likely pursue rural provider who deliver propane if you're going to go with that fuel, and get 2 or 3 bottles of 100 lb.

Question, do you have NG already at the house ... or all electric? If you have NG available, my guess it will be cheapest in the long run, unless your electric is super cheap.

Do your neighbors have propane tanks so that delivery provider of propane is already driving around your neighborhood?

 

[shawn84&92]

Natural gas is available, but I don't have it at my building. I thought about it, but I didn't want a monthly bill during the months I won't be using it, but it might still be cheaper.

 

[CNGsaves]

Sounds like the garage is stand-a-lone so running NG over from house that already has meter is not possible ... right?

If you're looking for cheap quick solution . . . . you could go Propane method with a couple Big Buddy heaters like the guys use ice fishing in huts. They have low oxygen sensor so they can be used within enclosed space. I've used one in small garage and worked great putting out 18K Btu on high (it has 3 heat settings) . . . with the 12v to 120v convertor it has a fan built-in as well. You could use 2 of these and get by for the winter, and just use either 20 lb (ie approx 5 gal) or the larger 100 lb propane bottles you were talking about.

 

[nehog]

...

means that the $80 it takes to fill my 100 gallon tank is equal to $374 for the same amount of electricity. If I figured that correctly.

Propane may be the cheapest way to go, I can get a tank for $129 and my local KOA fills it for around $80.

Wait a minute here... You keep saying 100 gallon tank, but it appears to me you are really using a 100 lb tank, which is a big difference in size (and cost!) A 100 gallon tank would hold about 80 gallons of propane so that $80 would mean you are paying $1 per gallon. A 100 lb tank holds perhaps 25 gallons, and paying $3.20 a gallon.

FWIW, there is no way you can carry around a 100 gallon tank! Heck, a 100 lb tank is a job and a half to move (been there, done that!)

So what tank do you really have? If it is a 100 lb tank, and you're paying $3.20 (about) per gallon, then you should simply do some math and figure out which is cheaper.

BTW, if you get a 120 gallon tank, that you own, you can probably end up paying about $2.50 per gallon for propane, delivered.

 

[58Yeoman]

I own both the 500 gallon and 120 gallon tanks at my place, and the best local service just filled the larger one for $1.41, the smaller is still full, but it gets filled at the same price when needed.

I'm really surprised at the difference in prices in different parts of the country.