Propane pipe question.

[chris142]

My underground propane pipe broke. It broke because someone planted a tree over it and the roots crushed it. The original pipe was just black pipe with some sort of wrap around it. It lasted 60 yrs,would still be OK if the tree had not been there.

I'm getting stupid info from plumbers and supply houses regarding the the replacement pipe.

One option is a plastic pipe but you must have a special tool to swedge the ends onto the plastic pipe.

The other option is steel pipe but it only cones in 25 ft lengths. So it must be delivered which costs an arm and a leg.

What's wrong with the old steel pipe for this?

 

[Empty Pockets]

My underground propane pipe broke. It broke because someone planted a tree over it and the roots crushed it. The original pipe was just black pipe with some sort of wrap around it. It lasted 60 yrs,would still be OK if the tree had not been there.

I'm getting stupid info from plumbers and supply houses regarding the the replacement pipe.

One option is a plastic pipe but you must have a special tool to swedge the ends onto the plastic pipe.

The other option is steel pipe but it only cones in 25 ft lengths. So it must be delivered which costs an arm and a leg.

What's wrong with the old steel pipe for this?

When my propane supplier installed the tank, they used copper. You might want to contact a new supplier for a new installation

Sent from my SM-J727V using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[LeeG]

The sell wrapped black pipe in 10' lengths at Home Depot. If you have far to go, I'd seriously consider doing it in polyethylene tubing (PE). Check your local codes. Just because it was installed that way originally doesn't mean you can repair it with the same materials.

 

[Adk Mike]

Pipe became obsolete only because of labor cost. The plastic that they run is fast and easy. A break in the line is a simple repair with a couple couplings.
Replace the iron pipe with plastic and mechical fittings. PM me the distance between the tank and the house along with the BTU load in the house and I’ll tell you the size you need.
Figure connectors at 80 bucks a piece and 5.00 a foot for line he should be pretty close.
I sell propane for a living and have done a lot of this type of replacement.

 

[Bad Eye Bill]

Pipe became obsolete only because of labor cost. The plastic that they run is fast and easy. A break in the line is a simple repair with a couple couplings.
Replace the iron pipe with plastic and mechical fittings. PM me the distance between the tank and the house along with the BTU load in the house and I’ll tell you the size you need.
Figure connectors at 80 bucks a piece and 5.00 a foot for line he should be pretty close.
I sell propane for a living and have done a lot of this type of replacement.

Hank? Hank Hill, is that you?

 

[HoosierBuddy]

What's wrong with the old steel pipe for this?

It'll rust and eventually leak. How long that takes depends on the soil conditions. Using bare steel for underground gas lines was the berries about 75 years ago. Then they got tired of blowing stuff up.

Today's underground steel gas lines are coated and cathodically protected against corrosion. That requires some extensive knowledge to design and maintain.

For your purposes, you'd be much better served with polyethylene gas pipe. It has to be the right pipe...sold for gas NOT water pipe. It should say "Gas" on the side of it. It can be connected with heat fusion OR stab connectors. The stab connectors don't require any special tools.

Good luck.

Phil

 

[TRWham]

Hank? Hank Hill, is that you?

He did not mention propane accessories, therefore, he's probably not Hank.

 

[sberry]

Where does it come from at what stage? First stage a 3/8 copper will carry 200K 66 ft. 1/2 over half a million BTU.

 

[chris142]

Pipe became obsolete only because of labor cost. The plastic that they run is fast and easy. A break in the line is a simple repair with a couple couplings.
Replace the iron pipe with plastic and mechical fittings. PM me the distance between the tank and the house along with the BTU load in the house and I’ll tell you the size you need.
Figure connectors at 80 bucks a piece and 5.00 a foot for line he should be pretty close.
I sell propane for a living and have done a lot of this type of replacement.

the output from the regulator is 3/4 as is the line leading into the house. its 38ft of pipe.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

He did not mention propane accessories, therefore, he's probably not Hank.

You beat me to it!

Tommy

 

[6768rogues]

Around here they use copper.

 

[chris142]

This is why I am not a plummer. Found the green gas pipe @ home depot after I called them and they said they don't carry it. $26 for a 10 ft pipe. Had to buy 4. Now get this. They don't have connectors to go with the pipe. Gotta use black fittings. These will rust,which is the reason I'm not supposed to use black pipe in the first place!

Now I have to cut it to length and thread it. I bought a pipe threader at a yard sale eons ago but have never used it.

I have no way to test my connections for leaks. I'm starting at the house and going to the tank. I guess tighten it till it stops?

 

[robertlynk]

Cap the ends put a shrader valve in one end and a inch of water gauge on the other. Use a bicycle hand pump put about 10 inch of pressure and leave for a couple of hours. No drop you are good to go. Then wrap the connections with the 2 inch wide black plumbing tape. Note use gas rate pipe dope on the threads

 

[sberry]

If it is 3/4 there must not be a regulator at the house then?

 

[Adk Mike]

3/4 is common for plastic pipe. When they need less than 3/4 techs tend to run 1/2 coated copper. Habit more than anything else.
Hank Hill ? I think he dreams about being me ��

 

[chris142]

Cap the ends put a shrader valve in one end and a inch of water gauge on the other. Use a bicycle hand pump put about 10 inch of pressure and leave for a couple of hours. No drop you are good to go. Then wrap the connections with the 2 inch wide black plumbing tape. Note use gas rate pipe dope on the threads

I dont see how I can cap the end at the house. I will be screwing the pipe directly into the pipe that comes out of my wall.

 

[chris142]

If it is 3/4 there must not be a regulator at the house then?

It's at the tank. Only way I have ever seen it done here.

 

[Movover]

This is why I am not a plummer. Found the green gas pipe @ home depot after I called them and they said they don't carry it. $26 for a 10 ft pipe. Had to buy 4. Now get this. They don't have connectors to go with the pipe. Gotta use black fittings. These will rust,which is the reason I'm not supposed to use black pipe in the first place!

Now I have to cut it to length and thread it. I bought a pipe threader at a yard sale eons ago but have never used it.

I have no way to test my connections for leaks. I'm starting at the house and going to the tank. I guess tighten it till it stops?

STOP and call someone that can install and test the pipe properly! If you are not sure how to test for leaks and don't even have the right connections for between the pipes then you should bow out, this is not water or sewer and close enough will not do

 

[firebirdparts]

I think somebody who doesn't understand leak checking could come around with 10 or 15 minutes of instruction.

To the OP - in my opinion, it would be right and proper for you to make up a test rig. That is what I would recommend. The system runs at incredibly low pressure, so you don't want to put a whole lot on it. You could use soap bubbles, and you should, but you can get it tighter than that with a little effort. You can get the leaks so small that you wouldn't be able to find them in a reasonable time.

To the whole question about where to cap it, I would say cap the 2 ends of what you want to check. If you hook it to the house, with your test rig back at the tank, then you'll be pressure checking the whole house, and that's a good thing to do. I would shut off all the user isolation valves when I did that.

 

[chris142]

I think somebody who doesn't understand leak checking could come around with 10 or 15 minutes of instruction.

To the OP - in my opinion, it would be right and proper for you to make up a test rig. That is what I would recommend. The system runs at incredibly low pressure, so you don't want to put a whole lot on it. You could use soap bubbles, and you should, but you can get it tighter than that with a little effort. You can get the leaks so small that you wouldn't be able to find them in a reasonable time.

To the whole question about where to cap it, I would say cap the 2 ends of what you want to check. If you hook it to the house, with your test rig back at the tank, then you'll be pressure checking the whole house, and that's a good thing to do. I would shut off all the user isolation valves when I did that.

Oh ok. I can do that. I can figure out a way to add pressure to the tank end and pressurize the whole line

 

[Adk Mike]

Your tank pressure varies depending on the outside temperature. So at the tank you have what’s called a high pressure regulator. The line from that regulator is 10psi. When it gets to the house a second regulator is used called a 2d stage. That puts the pressure in the house at 1/2 pound psi. That is the standard way it’s done nation wide. There are exceptions. Like when the tank sets next to the house. Then the regulator at the tank does both jobs.
10 PSI in the house would destroy your appliances.
The very low pressure inside a structure prevents leaks from doing damage. Mike

 

[ard]

This is why I am not a plummer. Found the green gas pipe @ home depot after I called them and they said they don't carry it. $26 for a 10 ft pipe. Had to buy 4. Now get this. They don't have connectors to go with the pipe. Gotta use black fittings. These will rust,which is the reason I'm not supposed to use black pipe in the first place!

Now I have to cut it to length and thread it. I bought a pipe threader at a yard sale eons ago but have never used it.

I have no way to test my connections for leaks. I'm starting at the house and going to the tank. I guess tighten it till it stops?

You tape the coupling, up onto the green pipe. Even if they made coated fittings, what would you do about the threads??

Lots of different vendors, HD will have it on the shelf I bet.

Im sure someone posted this, but assemble the whole thing, cap one end, buy the $10 pressure test valve at HD. Has a gauge and a shrader.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/HOME-FLEX-15-psi-Pressure-Test-Gauge-11-801-007/206997510

 

[jhasafety1]

I bought the 3/4 yellow gasline pex, 2 steel uprights and two couples from Home Depot and it all worked great. Installed in the trench in about 35 minutes. I sleeved it under the driveway in 2 sewer pvc pipe. I did have to put in a regulator at the house because I ran almost 90 feet. The pipe, couplers and uprights were all special order.

 

[chris142]

I don't have a regulator at at the house unless it's part of the appliances. Been like that since 1974 that I know of

 

[MattT]

I don't have a regulator at at the house unless it's part of the appliances. Been like that since 1974 that I know of

What Adk Mike is describing is newer installations. My place was built in '52 and has a 2 stage reg at the tank and 3/4" black pipe underground. Pretty much the same as you've got.

You should have isolation valves for each appliance. Just turn all those off then make your test connection on the tank end of the pipe before you hook it up. Then after everything is tested good make the tank connection and test it by turning the gas on for a couple seconds then off again to pressurize the line.

Commercial leak detector works better than soap solution. Opinions vary on which one is best but IME they're all better than dawn & water so just go with what you can find locally.

 

[chris142]

What Adk Mike is describing is newer installations. My place was built in '52 and has a 2 stage reg at the tank and 3/4" black pipe underground. Pretty much the same as you've got.

You should have isolation valves for each appliance. Just turn all those off then make your test connection on the tank end of the pipe before you hook it up. Then after everything is tested good make the tank connection and test it by turning the gas on for a couple seconds then off again to pressurize the line.

Commercial leak detector works better than soap solution. Opinions vary on which one is best but IME they're all better than dawn & water so just go with what you can find locally.

Thanks! Ya my place was started in 52 also.The black pipe lasted until a root twisted it and caused a leak. Took months to figure out where my gas was going. Had 3 companies come out and none could find it. My wife smelled it one day outside.