Propane sticker shock

[foompla]

So this is my first winter in my poorly insulated pier and beam home, and I am in shock with how quickly that propane seems to drop. We have a 500 gallon tank, that lasted 8 months, and as soon as it got cold dropped to about 10-15% in less than a week. We got it refilled about a month ago, and with 2 cold weeks its down to 40% from 80%.

Is this normal? I don't know how people afford to heat and cool in Texas.....

 

[gtmedic]

I’ve considered propane, but need to do cost comparisons. I’ve gone through 300 gallons of heating oil since November. Most use has been since the cold set in around Christmas.


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[OH_Varmntr]

I would expect that in a "poorly insulated" home.

 

[Crazyjake8493]

In a poorly insulated home, that's probably about right. I felt the same way the first year I moved in this house: poor insulation, not air sealed well, and heating oil over $4.00/gal. Man, I was broke until the next winter trying to pay off all that oil. I got the attic insulation up to R49, air sealed, installed a natural gas furnace and no more worries.

 

[Bretny]

I bet adding some insulation and sealing up the house dosnt look so expensive now. Neither does a wood/pellet stove.

What do you pay per gal of propane?

 

[Buckgnarly]

Define "cold" and what you consider "warm" in the house. My garage blew through propane, but it was -20F and I was keeping it at 50F. Once it got more seasonable, like 20F, use went WAY down.
That is a hell of a lot in 2 weeks though!

 

[Randy in Maine]

It is up to about $2.39 gallon up here. The last 5 weeks have been damn cold.

 

[OH_Varmntr]

It is $1.51 a gallon here.


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[shelteredV]

a gallon of LP produces 88,000 BTU
a gallon fuel oil produces 144,000 BTU
makes a big difference when it gets this cold out.

 

[mx500]

I paid $1.89 a few weeks ago. Im only using 2-3 gallons per day when it was -5 at night. my home is insulated decent and i have a new 96% furnace. also run a pellet stove part time

 

[OH_Varmntr]

a gallon of LP produces 88,000 BTU

a gallon fuel oil produces 144,000 BTU

makes a big difference when it gets this cold out.

In what way?

Lots of variables to consider when saying one is better than the other.

 

[haptiq]

Holy cow. I just paid 3.50 a gallon plus the fuel surcharge and some bs maintenance fee to fill my tank. I don't have an option since they own the tank but I'm about to tell them to pick it back up.

 

[foompla]

Thanks for the suggestions. Temps have been in the teens. Set the thermostat to 65, the heater seems to be able to keep up with that without alot of cycling. House has some blow in insulation in the attic that feels like it's doing its. Just need to address some cold pockets, fix a few vents that are stuck closed and seal up windows to see what that gets me.

I paid about 2.02/gallon to fill up the tank.

 

[PCustoms]

I burned around 600-700 gallons last winter @ $2/per (rough # as the tank was full when I bought the house).

This year I'm in a confirmed 70 gallons since October, maybe another 120 (waiting for a fill right now) and we've had some brutal cold compared to last year. This is also running a kitchen range this winter.

The difference: I foamed the 1st floor and attic, then blew in cellulose to R60.

 

[bob15]

Temps will cause the gauge to fluctuate some. Where is the regulator/valve? On the top or on the end? New or old tank? When it was re-filled, how much was put in? Do you own the tank (ask the propane company to look at the float, if they own the tank)?

My tank will drop really fast right after a fill-up, then it will barely move for months.

 

[wdrumheller]

Holy cow. I just paid 3.50 a gallon plus the fuel surcharge and some bs maintenance fee to fill my tank. I don't have an option since they own the tank but I'm about to tell them to pick it back up.

I used to pay that when I only had a 100 gallon tank for the house that was a rented tank.

I called them and asked "how can I get the best fuel costs and rates?" and they said that if I owned my own tank that was 500 gallons, they would fill it regularly and give me the best price which was $1.33/gallon last time they did it after I bought my tank and had it installed (by them).

Call and ask about the rates with rental tanks vs. owned tanks and sizes.

 

[Showkey]

a gallon of LP produces 88,000 BTU
a gallon fuel oil produces 144,000 BTU
makes a big difference when it gets this cold out.

In what way?

Lots of variables to consider when saying one is better than the other.

If use for $3.00 for fuel oil and $2.00 for propane and the same efficiency furnace the cost per BTU is slightly better for propane. Those are ball park averages. There are on line calculators to take in all the variables.

........................ Oil..........Propane

BTU per dollar 41,607 42,927

 

[OH_Varmntr]

/\
Yep, that was my point.

Just lots of things to consider.

My parents use fuel oil for their house and dad said it was $2.52/gal last time they have some delivered. Their furnace is quite old, I'm not sure of its efficiency.

 

[Iowa Jim]

We contract every year with our LP supplier during the summer so we can lock those prices. Unfortunately, I guessed wrong this year and yesterdays fillup was the last of the contract gas. Went up to $1.58.

 

[86turbodsl]

Welcome to winter 2018. It's damn cold everywhere almost. Fuel costs more when you are fighting everybody for it.

We own our own 1000 gallon propane tank, it's an old anhydrous tank i bought from a local farmer. I cleaned it and installed the proper valving. I only use it for backup and water heat. We have a geothermal heat pump for main heat. I fill up in the summer for about a buck a gallon and it lasts all year.

A point nobody has mentioned - if you own your own tank, many times your fuel supplier will require periodic testing of your system/tank to check for leaks. This charge usually runs 75 or more. Factor that into your ownership too.

One nice thing about owning vs renting - i buy from who i want to when i want to and usually at a substantial discount.

 

[ChaseDE]

Insulation and layout makes a huge difference in my experience.

Previous house was nearly new construction, 2600sqft 3 bedroom with 20'+ ceilings in living room, waste of space but looked nice. Propane nearly broke us in that house as I remember and the company owned the tank so we were locked in.

Current house built in 1985 but had most all windows and roof replaced, has TONS of insulation in the attic and such, 2500sqft 4 bedroom, 2 story, with normal ceilings and layout. I am still on my last fill-up from when it started getting cold this winter, 250gal oil tank I can shop around.

Wish I could remember how big the buried propane tank was at previous place but it had to have been bigger then 250gal.

 

[ddawg16]

Yea....kinda cold here as well this past weekend.

 

[sz0k30]

Sorry.

 

[sz0k30]

So this is my first winter in my poorly insulated pier and beam home, and I am in shock with how quickly that propane seems to drop. We have a 500 gallon tank, that lasted 8 months, and as soon as it got cold dropped to about 10-15% in less than a week. We got it refilled about a month ago, and with 2 cold weeks its down to 40% from 80%.

Is this normal? I don't know how people afford to heat and cool in Texas.....

REALLY???

You're in southern California & you're bitching about heating your house?

Try living in Michigan!

 

[1953mercury]

When we were home year round in northwest CO, 7200 ft, Over 3000sf, we went through a tank and a half in a full year (500gal tank). That was with gas range and on demand gas water heater and high efficiency 150k btu propane furnace. R-19 walls, R-38 ceilings, and good passive solar design. Pretty serious six month winters, with some stretches of sub zero weather, but on the plus side, many sunny days. Hope this is helpfull. Mike

 

[bobbyjean]

Holy cow. I just paid 3.50 a gallon plus the fuel surcharge and some bs maintenance fee to fill my tank. I don't have an option since they own the tank but I'm about to tell them to pick it back up.

i paid 2.25 yesterday at tractor supply...but i hauled the tank myself...not much fun and i need to figure a good way to support it uprite..how much is the fuel surcharge...thinking it may be worth it to get another tank and let a company fill...i have a 100# tank now

 

[Identaltech]

We set up a contract in April. We usually burn 900 gallons of propane a year. We pay every month a set amount and they fill my 500 gallon tank at will.
Max price this year is 1.45. I can burn as much or little propane that I want.

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[haptiq]

i paid 2.25 yesterday at tractor supply...but i hauled the tank myself...not much fun and i need to figure a good way to support it uprite..how much is the fuel surcharge...thinking it may be worth it to get another tank and let a company fill...i have a 100# tank now

It was 12.99 i think. I would shop around different dealers in your area. I def am after seeing I pay the highest price in the country by more than a dollar a gallon.

 

[bd8134]

I had the propane tank filled which I use to heat my garage. 70.70 gallons @ $4.66 a gallon for a grand total of $329.46. Yes I have called around and every supplier is the same in my area. I will be looking at running a circuit from my house boiler and adding a coil in my garage ac unit.

 

[d300]

At $4.46 a gallon I'd be asking the state AG to look at the company for price gouging.

 

[BobLon]

We just contracted to have a whole house generator (propane) installed before the hurricane season here in Florida.

Out of curiosity I looked up propane costs. Seems Florida has the highest cost per gallon in the country. Most areas running right at 5 bucks a gallon. Unregulated, they can charge anything they want. There line of BS is that since Floridians use such little propane (very short heating season/mostly electric furnaces) that they need to re-coup they're costs.

I envy the 1-2 dollar a gallon some of you are paying.

BobL.

 

[rustyjames]

Back in September I paid $1.47 per gallon, I was just quoted $3.79 per gallon.

 

[OH_Varmntr]

We just contracted to have a whole house generator (propane) installed before the hurricane season here in Florida.

Out of curiosity I looked up propane costs. Seems Florida has the highest cost per gallon in the country. Most areas running right at 5 bucks a gallon. Unregulated, they can charge anything they want. There line of BS is that since Floridians use such little propane (very short heating season/mostly electric furnaces) that they need to re-coup they're costs.

I envy the 1-2 dollar a gallon some of you are paying.

BobL.

With the popularity of natural gas in populated areas I can see why propane is not in high demand. That said, that's just plain highway robbery at $5/gal.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Here's a bit of history about Tomball, TX... Up until recently anyone within the city limits had free natural gas. People were up in arms when the gas company wanted to start charging them just a *small* fee due to city growth and maintenance... But old homes in that area, everything ran off of NG... Heat, A/C, fridge & freezers (ammonia circulation type)...

In 1933, workers with Humble Oil & Gas Co., now Exxon, were drilling in Tomball on the property of J.F.W. Kob. At depths of 5,000 feet, they struck oil, which gushed up more than 100 feet into the sky. As Lessie Upchurch, the author of Welcome to Tomball: A History of Tomball, Texas, described it, “liquid gold shot up in the air.”

A mutually beneficial contract was negotiated by Humble Oil and the City of Tomball. Under the agreement, in exchange for exclusive drilling rights within the city limits, the residents of Tomball were promised free water and natural gas for 90 years. The unique contract landed Tomball in the syndicated newspaper series Ripley’s Believe it or Not as being the only city with free gas and water and no cemetery.

 

[Showkey]

Propane is in high demand.....so the price goes up ........especially during the peak heating season.
Propane use very common in rural areas that are not serviced by NG lines.
Many avoid the propane variable pricing swings by having a large tank and filling in the off season.

Florida is a long distance form the major propane producing states with Louisiana being the closest with the others being long distances.

 

[chuppie]

In my area, Propane hits 4 bucks a gallon often. If you are using BBQ tanks from an exchange service, you are paying a lot more. I pay about 11cents KwH here.

I cut and pasted this because many people dont know....

Propane contains 91,547 Btu per gallon. A typical furnace will convert about 85% of that to heat, which means that 1 gallon of propane provides about as much heat as 23 kilowatt-hours of electricity. If propane costs $2.40, then electric resistance heat is cheaper if grid electricity costs 10 cents per KWH or less.


Why screw with propane if it is more expensive than electricty?

My two cents

 

[finn]

With our local electric rates, propane would have to be $5.75 /gal to be more expensive than electricity.

Modern furnaces and boilers are 92 to 96% efficient, so that would push the crossover point to about $6.80 / gal.

Energy prices are local, not national.

 

[OH_Varmntr]

Yes, electricity may cost $.10 per kwh at low usage levels. However, there are price brackets in many localities that will drive the cost per kwh of electricity up at higher consumption levels (like resistance heating applications), making alternative heating methods cheaper.

Here in Ohio, the price per kwh increases on average of 4% per year.

This is largely dependent on each persons geographic location.

 

[Ozwelder]

I live in Australia.
I have just had my household propane tank refilled as it was bone empty.
We use litres but the conversion works out at $7.80 per US gallon .

Fortunately, we don't require any heating living adjacent to the Great Barrier Reef.Our usage is for cooking only and lasts us 12 months.

I can feel your pain though.

Oz

 

[chuppie]

A heat pump with a COP between 2 and 3 changes the math. Of course COP will be much lower if/when it gets super cold out. My PTAC Heat Pump switches to straight electric at 24 degrees. I did a lot of research, in my area there was never a case for propane cost wise. I have natural gas in my house, but I would have to convert from .5 psi to 2 psi to add another furnace which was $3k for the upgrade not including the gas line. My standby generator is a natural gas hog and put me on the ragged edge of capacity of .5psi system. Here, I can use as much electricty as I want at 11 cents a KWH.

Cheers