Propane System Install for New Residence

[Two Pump Chump]

Looking for a YouTube video that doesn't bring the amateur weekend warrior ****. A comprehensive look at a new instal for a new residence. Code, Safety, tank, regulators, UG line, House wall penetration, house interior runs, appliance connection, line sizing. A lot to ask for I know, but my first 45 minutes was a waste and looked like amateur hack night before the fireball. - thanks.

 

[toyotadriver]

What do you want to know?

 

[dcg9381]

I don't think the plumbing (house) side of it is rocket science. Assuming you've got it sized correctly, around here it's all black pipe that gets leak tested (for days). The regulator, supply, all that stuff - that's done by the propane company (typically the company where you buy the tank from).

There is some advanced stuff that I've used a little bit of, specalized flex lines and fittings.

 

[Firebrick43]

Pipe sizing and such from Rego

Sizing Propane Piping Systems – RegO Products

www.regoproducts.com

The NFPA 58 has the code for interior installation

https://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/aboutthecodes/58/58-98-pdf.pdf

I would highly suggest iron pipe and not csst.

Read the regs and ask questions.

 

[larry4406]

...I would highly suggest iron pipe and not csst...

Agreed.

I have chased too many leaks from CSST systems. Trim nails if too long can puncture the CSST as can siding nails. Nail plates are useless for protection when the CSST runs thru a stud bay and blind nailing is involved.

Here are pictures of CSST run thru an exterior 2x6 wall stud bay. A siding nail punctured the line. Ideally, the CSST would have been strapped to the middle of the stud vs dangling in the bay which may have afforded some protection.

This was fun trying to find the source of the gas smell.

Watch your nail size!

 

[Firebrick43]

Agreed.

I have chased too many leaks from CSST systems. Trim nails if too long can puncture the CSST as can siding nails. Nail plates are useless for protection when the CSST runs thru a stud bay and blind nailing is involved.

Here are pictures of CSST run thru an exterior 2x6 wall stud bay. A siding nail punctured the line. Ideally, the CSST would have been strapped to the middle of the stud vs dangling in the bay which may have afforded some protection.

This was fun trying to find the source of the gas smell.

Watch your nail size!

I wish I would have kept a pic but in Oct I responded to a leak that the siding guy got lucky and had three nails in the CSST. Amazing how little it leaked to. They were using it for over a month and a half and would just occasionally catch a whiff. They howled like hell when we started cutting drywall.

 

[gmcgeo]

I don't think the plumbing (house) side of it is rocket science. Assuming you've got it sized correctly, around here it's all black pipe that gets leak tested (for days). The regulator, supply, all that stuff - that's done by the propane company (typically the company where you buy the tank from).

There is some advanced stuff that I've used a little bit of, specalized flex lines and fittings.

Pipe fitter

 

[Rusted Nut]

Propane is heavier than air. So, where your propane appliances are located, you will need a floor drain the the exterior (not into the plumbing system); so if there is a leak the propane will fall to the floor and go out the drain. Not sure what part of the country you are in, but this is code in Washington.

 

[Two Pump Chump]

Propane is heavier than air. So, where your propane appliances are located, you will need a floor drain the the exterior (not into the plumbing system); so if there is a leak the propane will fall to the floor and go out the drain. Not sure what part of the country you are in, but this is code in Washington.

??

Never mind. Too much here that . . . . .. . . . Never mind. Thanks

 

[gmcgeo]

Propane is heavier than air. So, where your propane appliances are located, you will need a floor drain the the exterior (not into the plumbing system); so if there is a leak the propane will fall to the floor and go out the drain. Not sure what part of the country you are in, but this is code in Washington.

I would like to see this code

 

[dcg9381]

Pipe fitter

Weird. Here it's plumbers that do the gas lines.

Propane is heavier than air. So, where your propane appliances are located, you will need a floor drain the the exterior (not into the plumbing system); so if there is a leak the propane will fall to the floor and go out the drain. Not sure what part of the country you are in, but this is code in Washington.

No such code in TX, so YMMV. (probably a good idea)
How big are these drains?

 

[gmcgeo]

Weird. Here it's plumbers that do the gas lines.



No such code in TX, so YMMV. (probably a good idea)
How big are these drains?

you have to have a CERT to install gas lines here.

 

[fitter30]

Any gas system should be pressure tested before put in service. Lp the danger element is more that natural. Lp doesn't have any mercaptan for smell and lp is heavier that air just sits in cavities.

 

[gmcgeo]

Any gas system should be pressure tested before put in service. Lp the danger element is more that natural. Lp doesn't have any mercaptan for smell and lp is heavier that air just sits in cavities.

Yes, it does. I use to put it in at the plant

 

[Firebrick43]

Any gas system should be pressure tested before put in service. Lp the danger element is more that natural. Lp doesn't have any mercaptan for smell and lp is heavier that air just sits in cavities.

LPG has one pound of mercaptan per 10k gallons and has for as long as I have been cognizant.

 

[gmcgeo]

I am not sure where in the world he got the idea that it has no mercaptan.... that's some bad info

 

[Aileron]

this may help look at L-545 serviceman's manual. It will tell you how to do the 3 minute leak test.

RegO® LPG & NH3 Literature – RegO Products

www.regoproducts.com

 

[dcg9381]

this may help look at L-545 serviceman's manual. It will tell you how to do the 3 minute leak test.

I'd recommend the 48 hour leak test.

 

[fitter30]

LPG has one pound of mercaptan per 10k gal

Stand corrected but never smelled it in lp. Walk into a house with natural gas can smell it with a very small leak. Ferrell gas put in less than .1% in their lp.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.ferrellgas.com/media/66083/sds_propane_12_18.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwja26uYsfX8AhUwmIkEHUqQCCk4ChAWegQICBAC&usg=AOvVaw0HTi51R6Yi5Cq27RWMpLIV

 

[Firebrick43]

Stand corrected but never smelled it in lp. Walk into a house with natural gas can smell it with a very small leak. Ferrell gas put in less than .1% in their lp.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.ferrellgas.com/media/66083/sds_propane_12_18.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwja26uYsfX8AhUwmIkEHUqQCCk4ChAWegQICBAC&usg=AOvVaw0HTi51R6Yi5Cq27RWMpLIV

1lbs / 42000lbs is .002 percent so yes it’s less than .1 percent.

NFPA 58

“4.2
All LP-Gases shall be odorized prior to delivery to a bulk plant by the addition of a warning agent of such character that gases
are detectable, by a distinct odor, to a concentration in air of not over 1/5 the lower limit of flammability.

The presence of odorant shall be determined by sniff testing or other means, and the results shall be documented as follows: 1) When LP-Gas is delivered to a bulk plant
2) When shipments of LP-Gas bypass the bulk plant
A.4.2.1
Experience has shown that ethyl mercaptan in the ratio of 1 lb. per 10,000 gallons of liquid LP-Gas has been recognized as an effective odorant.
A.4.2.3
Another method of determining the presence of odorant is the stain tube test. The method involves using a small handheld
pump to draw a sample across a filled glass tube and reading the length of color change.”


The 1 pound per 10,000 gallons is 3.9 ppm minimum.
The average human nose can detect 1.6 ppm

NG has 2-4ppm injected.

It’s very detectable in each gas to me

 

[Rusted Nut]

I would like to see this code

NFPA 58

6103.2.1.1 Use in basement, pit or similar location.
LP-gas containers shall not be used in a basement, pit or similar location where heavier-than-air gas might collect. LP-gas containers shall not be used in an above-grade underfloor space or basement unless such location is provided with an approved means of ventilation.

Building officials interpret this differently. In one case I had to install the furnace in an enclosed, sealed closet with a floor drain. In another case, we had to install floor drain in the kitchen for the range.

 

[Rusted Nut]

??

Never mind. Too much here that . . . . .. . . . Never mind. Thanks

Don’t let this intimidate you. A floor drain is nothing more than a 1 1/2” PVC pipe through the floor, a 90, and a straight run to exterior. Talk to your local building dept., and see exactly what they will require.

 

[gmcgeo]

NFPA 58

6103.2.1.1 Use in basement, pit or similar location.
LP-gas containers shall not be used in a basement, pit or similar location where heavier-than-air gas might collect. LP-gas containers shall not be used in an above-grade underfloor space or basement unless such location is provided with an approved means of ventilation.

Building officials interpret this differently. In one case I had to install the furnace in an enclosed, sealed closet with a floor drain. In another case, we had to install floor drain in the kitchen for the range.

That is for an lp container. that code does not apply for what we are talking about.

you are reading the code incorrectly

 

[toyotadriver]

Did we ever figure out what the OP wants to know?

 

[Two Pump Chump]

Did we ever figure out what the OP wants to know?

Post one it is stated exactly in plain English. But thanks anyways. You are a big help.

 

[toyotadriver]

Post one it is stated exactly in plain English. But thanks anyways. You are a big help.

Glad you were able to get it all figured out!!