Propane Tank Refill smaller Tanks

[crankshaftdan II]

Question for the people who sell-service the Propane Industry. Is it legal and possible ,to adapt a 1000 gallon home service tank so one can fill extra 39 gallon fork lift tanks and small barbecue tanks? If so, what equipment does one need to make it work?

 

[Adk Mike]

Can't do it. Your 1000 gallon tank is set up to work off vapor. To fill small tanks you would need to build it into a dispenser station. That would mean pulling gas of the liquid withdrawal siding using a pump. The tanks you see at refill stations are exactly the same tank. They are just using the liquid side for a pump.

 

[TAMPAGT07]

I always wondered about this also...

 

[Nexussian]

Are tanks available with access to both the liquid and the vapor?

If you had a source to the liquid in the tank, I've seen both electric and hand pumps at least to service fork lift tanks.

If you gain access to the liquid, do yourself a favor and get the electric pump.

I seem to recall pumps that could be used to service LNG powered vehicles at home off a NG line (read about those in articles about alternative fuels).

I expect there is a serious refrigeration system involved with them though, just the cost of the power to run that could make it cheaper to go get a refill elsewhere, let alone the cost of acquiring such hardware.

Good luck, whatever you choose.

 

[theoldwizard1]

You can partially fill the smaller tank by placing it in an ice water bath. Of course that s assuming the ambient air (and liquid in the big tank) is about roughly >60F. The bigger the temp difference the more you will get in the smaller tank. In theory, opening the bleeder will help.

This how you refill disposable cylinder from a BBQ tank.

 

[Streetbu]

It can be done, they wont be full though.

 

[rlitman]

You can partially fill the smaller tank by placing it in an ice water bath. Of course that s assuming the ambient air (and liquid in the big tank) is about roughly >60F. The bigger the temp difference the more you will get in the smaller tank. In theory, opening the bleeder will help.

This how you refill disposable cylinder from a BBQ tank.

I do that to refill paintball cylinders with CO2. For a forklift tank, you use the bleeder to both release vapor pressure, AND tell you when it is full. It WILL get completely full this way.

 

[Adk Mike]

There is a lot to it. Older tanks have the liquid withdrawal on the bottom. New and all underground tanks have the withdrawal on the top. Some tanks like forklift tanks are liquid withdrawal always.
I sold a ballon pilot a hand pump once. A lot of work to fill the tank. Electric works better but again now you have a dispenser.
Liquid propane on the skin burns bad. Best to leave it to the industry whatever you do. Safety is everything. Not worth getting hurt.

 

[A_Pmech]

Kits are readily available. Ducksface linked to one such kit. However, your propane company can furnish and install the equipment, which usually runs about $350.

Filling the forklift bottle consists of cracking the forklift bottle vent and filling until the vent gurgles. Easy peasy and it fills completely. Use cryogenic gloves.

 

[PelicanPines]

You can partially fill the smaller tank by placing it in an ice water bath. Of course that s assuming the ambient air (and liquid in the big tank) is about roughly >60F. The bigger the temp difference the more you will get in the smaller tank. In theory, opening the bleeder will help.

This how you refill disposable cylinder from a BBQ tank.

And... flip the BBQ tank upside down when you fill the disposable...

 

[CNGsaves]

Are tanks available with access to both the liquid and the vapor?

If you had a source to the liquid in the tank, I've seen both electric and hand pumps at least to service fork lift tanks.

If you gain access to the liquid, do yourself a favor and get the electric pump.

I seem to recall pumps that could be used to service LNG powered vehicles at home off a NG line (read about those in articles about alternative fuels).

I expect there is a serious refrigeration system involved with them though, just the cost of the power to run that could make it cheaper to go get a refill elsewhere, let alone the cost of acquiring such hardware.

Good luck, whatever you choose.

Unless a person is WEALTHY BEYOND REASON, there is NO WAY an individual person will have . . . "at home" a LNG pump (Liquified Natural Gas - - - ie compressed and super cooled natural gas at very high pressure over 3,000 psi which converts Gaseous CNG into LNG). Also, neither LNG or CNG (compressed natural gas) have ANY relationship to filling propane bottles as that fuel is LPG (liquefied petroleum gas).

LNG facility is typically hundreds of millions or up to a Billion !!

OP . . . YES, from the larger 1,000 gallon LPG tank, you can partially fill BBQ bottles of propane - - - ie 20 lb or approx 4.25 gallons . . . ONLY if completely full.

You will get better chance at "more full" tank if you refrigerate or even freeze the empty LPG tank/BBQ bottle. This will assist in getting more propane into the bottle. As GJer's say above, with vapors you will only fill the LPG bottle part way, if you don't vent properly.

As other GJer's point out above, fastest and guaranteed way to get complete BBQ bottle of propane is with PUMP - - - - a SAFE one for propane.

 

[A_Pmech]

He wants to fill forklift cylinders, which are a completely different design...

 

[oldtractors]

Wow. Interesting answers. You need a liquid line on your tank, which your supplier can add. You hook that to your tank you are filling and vent the vapor a little to help it fill. When liquid comes out the vent line it is full. You can fill a 20 lb BBQ tank in less than 5 minutes without a pump and without making the tank a lower temperature. The tank will be full when you are done. Repeat - you do not need a pump. LP is not a gas, it is a boiling liquid, so the pressure in the tank is the same whether it is full or nearly empty. This is the way farmers filled their LP powered tractors for years and this is the way I fill my tanks.

 

[Richard Cranium]

And you can not get gas or liquid from turning a 5 gallon tank up side down, the new valves have a internal tip over valve in them.

 

[ADSR]

Unless a person is WEALTHY BEYOND REASON, there is NO WAY an individual person will have . . . "at home" a LNG pump (Liquified Natural Gas - - - ie compressed and super cooled natural gas at very high pressure over 3,000 psi which converts Gaseous CNG into LNG). Also, neither LNG or CNG (compressed natural gas) have ANY relationship to filling propane bottles as that fuel is LPG (liquefied petroleum gas).

LNG facility is typically hundreds of millions or up to a Billion !!

OP . . . YES, from the larger 1,000 gallon LPG tank, you can partially fill BBQ bottles of propane - - - ie 20 lb or approx 4.25 gallons . . . ONLY if completely full.

You will get better chance at "more full" tank if you refrigerate or even freeze the empty LPG tank/BBQ bottle. This will assist in getting more propane into the bottle. As GJer's say above, with vapors you will only fill the LPG bottle part way, if you don't vent properly.

As other GJer's point out above, fastest and guaranteed way to get complete BBQ bottle of propane is with PUMP - - - - a SAFE one for propane.

They were trying to sell home units around here for 3K each. They couldn't even sell one. took 72 hours to fill.

 

[sni-per]

Question for the people who sell-service the Propane Industry. Is it legal and possible ,to adapt a 1000 gallon home service tank so one can fill extra 39 gallon fork lift tanks and small barbecue tanks? If so, what equipment does one need to make it work?

It can be done, as I know a guy close to me that does it, only thing is, you need the older style tanks with a bleeder valve. You can draw off the liquid side of your tank, crack the bleeder, and wait for the tank to fill, then shut off the valves. Leave the newly filled tanks OUTSIDE for a few days, as the will pop off any extra pressure.

I.....I mean, my friend........does this a lot. It is the only way to go, as the tank exchange companies only fill to 60% to increase profit, and avoid law suits. You pay for 20# of LP, but only get around 16#.

 

[slip knot]

I had an LP tractor that I filled off of a propane tank. there was a hose kit I bought from the propane dealer and he came out and hooked it up. IIRC it was @$100 total. worked really well to fill the tractor tank. open the vent on the tractor and open the fill valve on the tank. when it started puking liquid out the vent it was full and close all the valves. really simple.

 

[Handyfarmer]

you need a wet leg on the large tank, and then you need a hose with a fitting that fits the tank to be filled,

on the BBq tanks there is a small screw on the valve area that vents the tank, one hook up the hose and opens up the liquid valve, on the large tank and valve, on the small tank and then one opens up the vent a little, as it fills one will see vapor coming out of the vent, as it fills it will start to spurt liquid, and when full it will be liquid, coming out of the vent, shut off the valve, and the vent and the fill line, your tank will be filled to it proper capacity,

the new tanks with the flat in them is harder to fill, as the float messes with the filling, the old tanks are much better,

the older tractor tanks were filled the same way by venting and transferring the liquid,

 

[Handyfarmer]

here are the two diffrent types of vent or liquid indicator crews the lower section of the valve

 

[John Deere 5425]

I have been filling my small propane tanks off of my house tank for over 20 years. I just had my propane supplier install a wet leg in the tank. Then I just made up a hose to adapt to the small tanks. Very easy and convenient.

 

[sberry]

I have one.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Me too - wouldn't not have one.

BTW, your pump set-up is really cool - my wet leg is just on "ambient" pressure, and while I've used it to fill my big tank in my shop (IIRC it's like 10 or 15 gallons) it takes what seems like forever. Even refilling my "barbecue" tanks takes half a day if I have a bunch to do.

 

[gungatim]

your tank already has a wet leg, it's the excess flow valve. there are 2 valves outside the dome. one valve is the relief valve the other is for pumping the tank dry to move. with the proper size pipe ****** and ball valve you can withdraw liquid from it. that's the poor man's way. proper and much safer way is to have the company install one of these:

Chek-Lok Liquid Evacuation Adapter for 7590U and 7591U Valves
Designed specifically for use with RegO 7590U and 7591U Chek-Lok Excess Flow Valves. Adapter’s operating handle opens and closes equalizing stem in the Chek-Lok® valve. Eliminates gas flow through Chek-Lok® valve when installing or removing adapter. Use of RegO® adapter ensures proper connections and opening of the check mechanism. Tee=co


with that you don't have to worry about venting and popping the pop-off valve shut when finished. unfortunately, I can't find any dealer that will sell one to the public...but I just use the pipe/ball valve manual method.