Propane theft

[bygasper]

With the price of propane skyrocketing like it is...is anybody familiar with propane theft from home/business above ground storage tanks? I realize this may take some specialized equipment. However, if it was going to happen...now would be the time.

I installed a 1000 gallon tank last summer and filled it, luckily at a price way lower than it is now. This is at a remote location, but the area is monitored by video cameras so I'm not that worried. I'm just curious.

Pardon me if this is a remedial question, but it has come up in close circles lately.

Thanks!

 

[shopboy13]

Never heard of it out of a main tank but we had somebody running around the neighborhood a few months ago taking the cylinders off the grills.

 

[Sneeze357]

They would need to have their own propane pump and a large storage tank on wheels to pump it into. Seems unlikely....

 

[EOC_Jason]

^^^ Yeah, at the very least they would need a big tank if they wanted to steal any decent amount of LP... I don't think anyone is going to just strap that into the bed of their pickup...

I've never looked but is there a way to put a padlock on the cover dome thing?

 

[Allenw]

If the tank has a wet line it's no problem to get LP out of a tank. There is a couple of families around here pretty handy at stealing LP.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I haven't heard of any around here. If they were going to to steal LP, I'd guess it would be easier to cut the lock off a Blue Rhino cage, load and go.

 

[Mike Miller]

Why bother pumping, load up tank and all. All that's needed is a roll back truck.

 

[Sneeze357]

If the tank has a wet line it's no problem to get LP out of a tank. There is a couple of families around here pretty handy at stealing LP.

You still need a pump, and that's not very portable or stealthy. You can fill a propane tank without a pump, but only if the filling tank is above the empty tank, and it is a slow process. I suppose you could trap some propane in a 20# tank, but you wouldn't get more than a few pounds.

 

[cyamaha2007]

Yes it has happened around here multiple times. They target bank owned homes. Rumor is they drive a truck next to the tank. Then use a truck bed crane to take the entire tank.

 

[Allenw]

You still need a pump, and that's not very portable or stealthy. You can fill a propane tank without a pump, but only if the filling tank is above the empty tank, and it is a slow process. I suppose you could trap some propane in a 20# tank, but you wouldn't get more than a few pounds.

I've never used a pump to fill an lp tank.

 

[signcrafter]

Yes it has happened around here multiple times. They target bank owned homes. Rumor is they drive a truck next to the tank. Then use a truck bed crane to take the entire tank.

How do they get rid of all the tanks?

 

[NUTTSGT]

How do they get rid of all the tanks?

They could either dump them on a back road or sell them for scrap.

 

[blazentrout]

Or for bbq grills.

 

[power wagon]

its happening up here with the hundred lbs tanks, as well as k1 and fire wood, its getting crazy, they say we now we have a shortage on fire wood,

 

[Boost Creep]

guess i should go out and pull the tank off my grill and lock it up till spring :|

 

[nicksnothereman]

With the price of propane skyrocketing like it is...is anybody familiar with propane theft from home/business above ground storage tanks? I realize this may take some specialized equipment. However, if it was going to happen...now would be the time.

I installed a 1000 gallon tank last summer and filled it, luckily at a price way lower than it is now. This is at a remote location, but the area is monitored by video cameras so I'm not that worried. I'm just curious.

Pardon me if this is a remedial question, but it has come up in close circles lately.

Thanks!

My neighbor was stealing water from my outdoor faucet, I was not pleased. So I just slapped a locking bib on there.

You're like "hey nick, it's just a couple of bucks in water a month" and nick is like "well it beats jail". Guy is a see you next thursday.

 

[Sneeze357]

I've never used a pump to fill an lp tank.

How do you fill them then? If you want to fill a 20# tank from a bulk tank without a pump, the bulk tank must be elevated above the 20# tank. Most bulk tanks sit on the ground. It also takes a lot of time, and, you will never completely fill the 20# tank. Not something you can accomplish in the middle of the night with nobody noticing and get very much.

Also, if your bulk propane tank is cold, like it probably is outside, it takes even longer to fill a tank without a pump.

If you have a heated propane tank on a raised platform with an easily accessible valve - yes, it might get stolen.

 

[White Shadow]

BTW...what did I miss here? Why have propane prices been rising so much? What happened?

 

[mikegt4]

BTW...what did I miss here? Why have propane prices been rising so much? What happened?

supply and demand

extra cold winter

 

[mikegt4]

BTW...what did I miss here? Why have propane prices been rising so much? What happened?

supply and demand, extra cold winter

 

[Lippyp]

I've not heard of bulk propane being stolen (we have an above ground bulk tank) but the do steal the big 47KG propane cylinders if they're not chained up. Now heating oil is another matter, thats a huge problem over here. Often they have a van with a couple of those pallet tanks in the back and a small pump, gravity feed out what they can and pump the rest. Sometimes they drill a hole in the tank to get at it and then leave what they can't take to run out.

 

[Cougar67]

Re: the price of propane, U.S. exports of it have doubled since 2012!

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MPREXUS2&f=M

 

[justin1795]

the whole supply and demand thing really gets me. especially when it comes to gas prices. cars get better mpg now then ever is the demand really higher? diesel has been 3.99 here for like a year and just now hanging at 3.85 it never fluctuates. I think its just a page out of the oil companies book. make this much more profit then last year.

 

[tez929rr]

the whole supply and demand thing really gets me. especially when it comes to gas prices. cars get better mpg now then ever is the demand really higher? diesel has been 3.99 here for like a year and just now hanging at 3.85 it never fluctuates. I think its just a page out of the oil companies book. make this much more profit then last year.

Petroleum products are the most important commodities in the world. Yes, it stinks that you have to buy it and you can only shop around so much for price. But it is bought and sold on world-wide markets and there is no way to significantly manipulate the price. Demand in enormous is places like China and since it's a fungible commodity the price is truly affected by world wide markets.

Adjusted for inflation since the 70's, fuel in the US is not outrageously expensive. I know it seems like it is because it hurts so bad to watch those numbers run up at the pump, but in relative terms it's the truth. And almost every bit of the variation in price paid from state to state is due to taxes.

 

[Allenw]

How do you fill them then? If you want to fill a 20# tank from a bulk tank without a pump, the bulk tank must be elevated above the 20# tank. Most bulk tanks sit on the ground. It also takes a lot of time, and, you will never completely fill the 20# tank. Not something you can accomplish in the middle of the night with nobody noticing and get very much.

Also, if your bulk propane tank is cold, like it probably is outside, it takes even longer to fill a tank without a pump.

If you have a heated propane tank on a raised platform with an easily accessible valve - yes, it might get stolen.

Bleed them off. The theives around here use pick ups with 90 gallon or so tanks in them. You hook the wet line to the liquid inlet and bleed the vapor outlet.

 

[White Shadow]

the whole supply and demand thing really gets me. especially when it comes to gas prices. cars get better mpg now then ever is the demand really higher?

Absolutely. Yes, on average cars are getting better fuel economy than ever before, but there are A LOT more of them now than ever before too. And look at China as an example--they are growing so rapidly and a lot of people who could never afford cars now have more than one.

 

[KRB52]

I can't wait to hear the story of the body found with the siphon hose next to a tank. A lit cigarette will be a bonus.

(Fun fact: liquid propane boils at -40*F. at atmospheric pressure.)

 

[D-fens]

A local propane sales place has been having a problem with somebody cutting through the fence and filling up a 100lb cylinder. Guy just casually rolls it in on a handtruck like it ain't no thing. They got it on their surveillance camera, several times, but police haven't caught the guy yet.

 

[kaffine]

(Fun fact: liquid propane boils at -40*F. at atmospheric pressure.)

Another fun fact at -40º you don't need to note if it is degree F or degrees C as at that temp they are the same

 

[Sneeze357]

Bleed them off. The theives around here use pick ups with 90 gallon or so tanks in them. You hook the wet line to the liquid inlet and bleed the vapor outlet.

You would get very little propane doing that. I'm not sure what you mean by "bleed them off". If you hookup a cold propane tank in your truck to a cold propane tank mounted outside a house you will only get gas transfer, not liquid. You might get a few pounds of propane at the most. Nowhere near 90 gallons. And again, the bulk tank would have to be elevated to a level above the vehicle tank they are filling. I don't think I've ever seen a propane tank mounted higher than a pickup truck.

The only way it could possibly work is if the empty tank you are filling has been chilled, and the bulk tank you are using has been heated. This is almost impossible if the bulk tank is located outside. Even then, you still have to work with gravity. I guess they could steal propane in the summer, if they park their truck in an air conditioned garage for long enough, and you mounted your tank high enough for them to drive under. It would still take significant time to fill the tank, we are talking hours.

You just cannot steal any quantity of propane like this without a giant tank and a pump. (Steal a propane delivery truck and I suppose you have all the right tools)

 

[henry29]

I can't wait to hear the story of the body found with the siphon hose next to a tank. A lit cigarette will be a bonus.

(Fun fact: liquid propane boils at -40*F. at atmospheric pressure.)

A few years ago someone was caught not far from here laying under an anhydrous ammonia tank trying to drill a hole in it with a cordless drill.

 

[lessersivad]

You would get very little propane doing that. I'm not sure what you mean by "bleed them off". If you hookup a cold propane tank in your truck to a cold propane tank mounted outside a house you will only get gas transfer, not liquid. You might get a few pounds of propane at the most. Nowhere near 90 gallons. And again, the bulk tank would have to be elevated to a level above the vehicle tank they are filling. I don't think I've ever seen a propane tank mounted higher than a pickup truck.

The only way it could possibly work is if the empty tank you are filling has been chilled, and the bulk tank you are using has been heated. This is almost impossible if the bulk tank is located outside. Even then, you still have to work with gravity. I guess they could steal propane in the summer, if they park their truck in an air conditioned garage for long enough, and you mounted your tank high enough for them to drive under. It would still take significant time to fill the tank, we are talking hours.

You just cannot steal any quantity of propane like this without a giant tank and a pump. (Steal a propane delivery truck and I suppose you have all the right tools)

IF you drop the pressure in the RECEIVING vessel by bleeding the vapor, which would need to be smaller volume wise, the liquid will transfer WITHOUT the need for a pump. But only if you have the transfer hose or tubing hooked to the LIQUID withdrawal valve (wet line) of the larger vessel.

A friend of mine told me just the other day this is the same procedure he uses to fill 20 lb. tanks for his family from his own 500 gallon and 1000 gallon tank.

I have done this myself when I worked for a propane company and no pump was available at the location I was working.

BTW, it didn't take hours to transfer the liquid. Not as fast as a pump but not hours either.

 

[D-fens]

A few years ago someone was caught not far from here laying under an anhydrous ammonia tank trying to drill a hole in it with a cordless drill.

The question has to be asked so I'm askin.

Why? They use that to make meth or something?

 

[Farmall450]

The question has to be asked so I'm askin.

Why? They use that to make meth or something?

Maybe they wanted to fertilize their garden

 

[Allenw]

IF you drop the pressure in the RECEIVING vessel by bleeding the vapor, which would need to be smaller volume wise, the liquid will transfer WITHOUT the need for a pump. But only if you have the transfer hose or tubing hooked to the LIQUID withdrawal valve (wet line) of the larger vessel.

A friend of mine told me just the other day this is the same procedure he uses to fill 20 lb. tanks for his family from his own 500 gallon and 1000 gallon tank.

I have done this myself when I worked for a propane company and no pump was available at the location I was working.

BTW, it didn't take hours to transfer the liquid. Not as fast as a pump but not hours either.

Ahh a man with practical experience on the subject.

We ran them old 2 cylinder JD's on lp for years, I've filled a couple of tanks.

 

[wedge40]

The question has to be asked so I'm askin.

Why? They use that to make meth or something?

Yes...

 

[Allenw]

A few years ago someone was caught not far from here laying under an anhydrous ammonia tank trying to drill a hole in it with a cordless drill.

We had one die around here when the anhydrous ate through the brass on the valve on a 20lb lp tank they were hauling it in. Doubt if the other two that were in the car with him learned any thing though.