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Proper Electrical Wiring for Portable Backup Generator

jtwrace

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Joined
Apr 12, 2021
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10
Location
FL
I'd like to use a portable 13kw NG Generator. Here in FL, the meter is outside with a small panel which then feeds a 200A panel in the garage which is on the opposite side of the house.

What is the proper way to manually use a portable and shut off the power to the panel in the garage? No, I'm not doing this but I'd like to educate myself on this beforehand.
 
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Solarphil

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Mar 21, 2017
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You say you want a portable but then mention NG for a fuel source and 13 kW for size, both typically mean a stationary generator. The wiring, fuel and safety considerations are substantially different when connecting up a portable vs a permanently installed stationary genset.

If it’s a portable generator, the neutral will be bonded to ground internally and you’ll need to address that so it’s safe both when plugged into the house and when it’s running independently. Local AHJ here lets us leave the ground disconnected at the inlet socket, but not all AHJs will feel the same. You’ll need to have a plan and get their agreement. Whatever you do, don’t bypass the internal bond inside the genset unless you’re willing to remove all the sockets, weld the frame to your foundation or otherwise render it impossible to haul out to a field and run independently of your home wiring system.

If it’s a permanently installed generator, it will have provisions internal to either make or break the N-G bond, because it’s designed for the application.

If you’re really planning on running off natural gas (or propane), make sure you size the plumbing right. Generators take a considerably larger supply than most houses are plumbed for, you might need to upsize the regulator and service to keep from starving the engine when you need it most. Backyard ROT is 3/4” pipe minimum, if it’s a short run.

Interlock kits in the existing panel is one solution to adding a generator safely, but I’ve found they’re often more trouble than they’re worth - the panel needs to be new enough to support backfeed clips in the right places, you need to find interlocks that fit your specific breakers and panel, yadda yadda. A 60A or 100A double pole double throw safety switch is infinitely safer and usually cheaper/faster, easier to explain to the wife in case the power goes out when you’re out of town, and looks more professional to boot. Just my .02
 

theoldwizard1

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Interlock kits in the existing panel is one solution to adding a generator safely, but I’ve found they’re often more trouble than they’re worth[/I] - the panel needs to be new enough to support backfeed clips in the right places, you need to find interlocks that fit your specific breakers and panel, yadda yadda. A 60A or 100A double pole double throw safety switch is infinitely safer and usually cheaper/faster, easier to explain to the wife in case the power goes out when you’re out of town, and looks more professional to boot. Just my .02


I disagree ! Unless the panel is so old that breakers are no longer available, the installation typically required 2 tandem breaker plus the breaker for generator.

A DPDT switch can easily be over $300 !
 

13mo

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Mar 10, 2020
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Missouri
Interlock kits in the existing panel is one solution to adding a generator safely, but I’ve found they’re often more trouble than they’re worth - the panel needs to be new enough to support backfeed clips in the right places, you need to find interlocks that fit your specific breakers and panel, yadda yadda. A 60A or 100A double pole double throw safety switch is infinitely safer and usually cheaper/faster, easier to explain to the wife in case the power goes out when you’re out of town, and looks more professional to boot. Just my .02

Interlock kits are widely available and will work with a panel as long as you are not running some very old panel/breaker type that is no longer made (e.g. FPE, Square D XO, etc.) or if you are running a small panel of <150 amps for some makes. The only interlock type I can see that has anything except a little metal slider that mounts to the breakers in question (Siemens) or the dead front (everybody else) is GE, who also has a retaining clip that goes inside of the box.

A DPDT safety switch for a typical 200 amp panel is about $400-500, whereas interlock kits are $30-70. Remember that with a DPDT generator switch that the switch has to be able to carry the same current that the panel is set up to use from the utility under normal conditions, so you can't use a 60 or 100 amp DPDT switch unless you only have 60 or 100 amp service to that panel. The NEC bans services less than 100 amps in new construction and it is a small house that only has a 100 amp panel, so a 60-100 amp panel will either be a second "emergency" panel or you are using a much larger 150-200 amp panel and will need a much larger DPDT switch than 60-100 amps. If you have a separate smaller "emergency" panel, that adds extra cost as well versus being able to simply put an interlock on your main panel. You are getting pretty close to the cost just having a 50-60 amp automatic transfer panel if you are going that route.

I would recommend for the OP to get an interlock kit for the 200 amp panel he is discussing, as long as his breaker panel isn't some old and obsolete one and the utility allows interlocks. One of the two utilities in my area doesn't care what you do for your service past their meter/disconnect. The other has extremely specific requirements for everything and they not only do not allow interlocks, they will only allow a generator to be connected to your breaker panel if you use one of a small number of "approved" transfer switches and there is a very specific label you must attach to your house. If the OP has such a utility, they will tell him exactly what he has to do.
 
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jtwrace

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Apr 12, 2021
Messages
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Location
FL
The panel is a Square D Homeline. Yes, it will be a NG Portable. Gas service is already done with an upsized meter along with a "T" with a regulator for it along with a ball valve. Gas company was happy to do it when the house was built.
 

dcg9381

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Interlock kit at the panel and generator inlet. Big cable.

This is a "big" generator for a portable interlock kit. And it's a big generator to be able to plug into a transfer box. 13KW (running, if that's the rating) is 54 amps. Biggest inlet I can find is 50A.
 

Innovate1

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Jul 28, 2014
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Illinois near St. Louis, Missouri
Square D makes a interlock kit for Homeline panels that includes the backfed breaker retaining clip. Others make them but the price is about the same so I would go with the manufacturers kit. This looks to be what you need but I don't know all the details of your site.

Here is one source but obviously not the only one.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Square-D-1-in-Generator-Interlock-Kit/999922266
 
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jtwrace

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FL
Lets see a few pic's of that Generator....

It's not out yet but here's the message...

"Yes, we're expecting to release our 13,000 watt tri fuel model capable with natural gas in June."

Duromax
 
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slow

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near Orlando
Interlock kit at the panel and generator inlet. Big cable.

This is a "big" generator for a portable interlock kit. And it's a big generator to be able to plug into a transfer box. 13KW (running, if that's the rating) is 54 amps. Biggest inlet I can find is 50A.

50 amps is likely enough, here in FL, your only really using a large generator like that for the inrush to run the air conditioning, steady state loads will likely be much lower. If you were running a ton of resistive heat or charging large battery banks the last 4 amps might be a concern, but I would not worry about it. I had a 15,000 generac portable gasoline generator, I sold as keeping it fueled was difficult drinking 36 gallons a day!
 

shortykorte

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Tallahassee, Fl
I live in Florida and I run a 5k Honda on a properly gauged extension cord to a 220v 30 breaker in the panel. Redneck but works the one time a year it’s been needed.

Several neighbors have installed stationary Generac generators running NG. Is this portable a lot cheaper than a Generac or similar?


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal
 

dcg9381

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Austin, TX
50 amps is likely enough

I agree it's a good size. Twice as big as most large RV generators. My point was that the kits to connect the generator to the house are 50A and if this generator can put down 13KW (running) - that's beyond the rating on the inlet. I guess it's OK if it's breaker protected @ 50A.
 

slow

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I am sure the portable is WAY cheaper than the Generac stationary units. My guess is 2 grand or so compared to the 5-13K installed cost of the stationary. , the last few friends who have had them the numbers have been close to 10K installed.
 

dcg9381

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the last few friends who have had them the numbers have been close to 10K installed.

Install costs here $3-5k easily.
That being said, this is GJ.. I bought an ATS and self installed a 20KW geneset. Hardest part of it was hauling a 500lb generator to a concrete pad.
 
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jtwrace

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FL
I am sure the portable is WAY cheaper than the Generac stationary units. My guess is 2 grand or so compared to the 5-13K installed cost of the stationary. , the last few friends who have had them the numbers have been close to 10K installed.

Exactly. I think I'm going to get a quote to be sure but that's what my last one was. This is why I'm thinking portable...never really get the money out of it but nice to have. Especially in FL.
 
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jtwrace

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Apr 12, 2021
Messages
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FL
I live in Florida and I run a 5k Honda on a properly gauged extension cord to a 220v 30 breaker in the panel. Redneck but works the one time a year it’s been needed.

Several neighbors have installed stationary Generac generators running NG. Is this portable a lot cheaper than a Generac or similar?


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

I got your PM...I don't have enough posts to respond. North Orlando though.
 
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jtwrace

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FL
10 cents a watt. What a wonderful world.

Gonna take some wheaties to start that with the rope backup.

Got to keep that battery in good shape so that's never an issue. ;)

I have to ask about your moniker, do you sell firebird parts? My brother is on the lookout for a 67 to replace what he sold years ago.
 
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