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Property Assessment

brycez28

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Last week I recieved a letter from the City of Sheboygan Assessment Office. It says that they see we purchased a property (almost a year ago!) and they want me to fill out this Residential Sales Questionnaire for analysing sales. If I don't return the form, they send an appraiser to my house.

Really, what is the point of this??? Sale price is public record, why do I have to tell them what my appraiser appraised it at, financing information and what updates I've done and are needed???

Questions Include:
What was the sales price
What was the original asking price
If I think the price was fair
How long property was on market
Financing terms
Whether or not refianced since sale
If an appriasal has been done on property and the appriased value
List additional repairs, additions or remodeling and cost
List repairs, additions or remodeling still needed
 
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Higgins

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The first 6 questions are a matter of record, they are just to lazy to look it up. So you really can't get around those figures.

As for the remaining questions I wouldn't let them know that I had an appraisal, nor what the value is. If you say additional work is required, they will be looking for permits to be pulled, which means the property value can be readjusted!

AL
 

Architorture

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Sounds like they might be looking to verify what is on the public record already.

Not everything is public record either...like list price, days on market and appraised value.
 

LB-1911

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You'll really like this -

Will my assessment go up if I repair my property? Good maintenance will help retain the market value of your property. Generally, your assessment will not be increased for individual minor repairs such as those that follow; however, a combination of several of these items could result in an increased assessment.

a. Repairing concrete walks and driveways

b. Replacing gutters and downspouts

c. Replacing water heater

d. Repairing or replacing roof

e. Repairing porches and steps

f. Repairing original siding

g. Patching or repairing interior walls and ceilings

h. Exterior painting

i. Replacing electrical fixtures

j. Replacing furnace

k. Exterior awnings and shutters

l. Weather stripping, screens, storm windows, doors

m. Exterior landscaping including lawns, shrubbery, trees, flowers

http://www.ci.sheboygan.wi.us/departments/assessment/frequently-asked-questions/
 
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brycez28

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I do have permits pulled since we purchased. Fence, furnace and windows. Am I better off putting down my appriaser's price instead of the city sending one of their people?

I just don't think most of this information is any of the city's business. They know how much I paid. They know what permits I've pulled. Why do they need to know more?
 

Architorture

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Even if they send someone out they are just going to ask you the same questions. Generally they aren't allowed in unless invited...like vampires.

I did an in ground pool and fence last year and they came out a couple times to see if it was done. Once it was complete they just quickly measured. I got my assessment adjustment letter about a week later.
 

theoldwizard1

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In MI, you do NOT have to let government appraiser inspect the inside of your home !

Check with some local experts (lawyers) about the "legality" of this questionnaire and whether or not they have the right to enter your dwelling.
 

SALIV8

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Even if they send someone out they are just going to ask you the same questions. Generally they aren't allowed in unless invited...like vampires.

Lmao.. +1


Edit: If it was me I would wait for another notice. That one got lost in the mail. Then if a second came I might answer it but id be very very conservative, or if that got lost in the mail too, you don't let them in the house for whatever reason..
 
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Charles (in GA)

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The appraisers are trying to do a sales ratio study. They need accurate information to do the study with. If the sale of your house had other considerations that are not part of the real property, such as furniture left in the house, appliances left that normally would be taken (fridge for instance), or the seller fronted some of the buyers costs and then built it into the price of the house........... they need to back these numbers out of the price paid for the house, to make the study more accurate.

A sales ratio study basically takes the price of houses that sold at legitimate arms length transactions, and compares them to the price the appraiser/assessor had previously placed on the property. This number is the focus of the study, it shows the appraiser if they have all properties in an area (subdivision, city, county, etc) overpriced, under priced or on par with the sale prices, on average. It uses algorithmic formulas that generate several numbers that show how closely the values came to a line when graphed out (COD or coefficient of dispersion), and if high priced houses were overpriced or if low priced houses were under priced (PRD or price related differential).

Sales ratio studies are a necessary part of the property mass appraisal process used by appraisers and assessors for taxation. In Georgia the county chief appraisers, and in larger counties, staff appraisers also, will do the studies and then the State Department of Audits sends in a auditor to do an official study. He will pull property records and go out and see if the property appraiser for the county did a good job of appraising the property to standards set by the state, and then take the sales information, and preform a study, which is the official numbers for that county for that year.

Property appraisers in Georgia live and die by those studies. In GA the assessment ratio is 40%. If the official study shows the property values are between 38% and 42% then you are OK. Get below 38% and down to 36% then the state still says you are OK but if you don't work to improve the numbers, the next year you probably will have slipped below 36%.

At 38% and up, the public utilities pay their taxes at 40%. Get below 38% and the public utilities pay at ACTUAL percentage. For a county with a rail yard, a power generating plant, large telephone switching station/transmission facility, that can mean tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in tax revenue gained or lost.

In GA, get below 36% and the state will not accept the tax digest. They must accept it, and issue a letter of collection, in order for the county and cities and schools and other taxing authorities to collect taxes. Below 36% the county has to sue the state in court asking for authority to collect. The court will allow collections only after the county has signed a consent order in which they agree to conduct a complete revaluation of ALL TAXABLE property, both real and personal, and they can only collect at 85% of the full taxes owed, until the revaluation is finished, at which point they can go back and collect the rest. This can take a year or more, and cost the county dearly.

The county I'm in, it took about 5 years before the state released us from the consent order requirements. Its an ugly thing. People get fired, everyone gets upset, its just better to keep your numbers in the norm.

A sales ratio study involving raw land and no improvements is also difficult. Standing timber is not taxed in Georgia, it is taxed at the time of harvest. If the appraiser suspects that the value of trees was included in the price of land, then they try to determine what the trees are worth so their value can be backed out of the price.

Charles
 
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dfox1234

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In any state you do not have to let the government into your house. The 4th amendment protects against unreasonable search and seizure. The government needs a warrant to enter your house.
 

lat905

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Just a note on the appraisers entering your home: All of the homes in my township were re-appraised about 2 year ago. You didn't have to let them in your home, but if you didn't, they put down a whole lot of wrong stuff.

For example----I put the guy intending to passively refuse letting him in. I had a form in the mailbox with how they were appraising my house. The added a bathroom, a bedroom, a finished basement, and an additional 500 square feet.

In my development, there are 4 models. My model is a ranch, available 2 ways, with or without a basement. Otherwise, its a 3-bed 2-bath, 1890 sq ft. There is not another version. And you can look in the basement window and see its not finished.

They would not change it without me letting the guy inside. My taxes would have gone up almost $1000 a year if I let his BS assessment stand.
 

justanengineer

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In any state you do not have to let the government onto your property. The 4th amendment protects against unreasonable search and seizure. The government needs a warrant to step onto your property.

Fixed it for ya! While its unwise to start a ******* contest if you dont have the resources (ie lawyers) to back it up, you should know your rights. My parents had the local building inspector escorted off their property ~20 years ago by the police. He was hell bent on writing a stop work order and fining them, their lawyer made a building permit magically appear in the mail at zero cost.
 

Architorture

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Real estate rights are subject to the limitations of the State's police powers... So if you are constructing an illegal and un permitted structure you don't really have a leg to stand on
 

Architorture

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It could be a sign of buyers remorse... Easy to think you are getting a fair deal at closing...6 months later you may have changed your mind after replacing the roof or finding out that rail bed wasn't actually abandoned
 
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brycez28

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In the 12 years I've been a tax assessor, I've heard that or similar statement several times. It amazing how people will pay way over market for a property, for no apparent reason.

Charles

I can see the questions pertaining to the cost and if there were items included in the sale, but why the questions asking what my financing terms are or if I refinanced?
 
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Architorture

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I can see the questions pertaining to the cost and if there were items included in the sale, but why the questions asking what my financing terms are or if I refinanced?

The cost of money...you can spend more and are more likely to do so with better terms.

When money is cheap prices tend to go up...when rates are high home prices usually suffer

It would all go into the equation.

Not to mention that a $100k cash deal wouldn't necessarily be comparable to a financed $100k deal
 

Charles (in GA)

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I can see the questions pertaining to the cost and if there were items included in the sale, but why the questions asking what my financing terms are or if I refinanced?

If it was an owner finance, or the owner (seller) paid some of the finance fees or costs, and then included them in the price of the house (very common) then those costs need to be backed out of the sale price.

Not sure about the refi, but they are trying to get the big picture. Accurate info is actually a benefit to all of the taxpayers in your jurisdiction. That way, everyone is fairly taxed.

Charles
 
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Pat Brady

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I would never tell them you upgraded anything. Especially something like a furnace or anything inside. I don't believe they can come inside. Let them appraise it from outside the house.
 
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brycez28

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I'm not really sure the corrilation, but my tax assessment was $95k. The city is currently taxing me on home assessment of $105,800. I don't exactly want the city walking around my yard either. I have one of those cheap 10'x10' "Shed in a box" things from Menards that they city wouldn't be happy about if they knew I had it up. And I have my trailer parked between my fence and they alley and they would make a fuss about that because it isn't on concrete.
 

Architorture

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I wouldn't worry about the assessor knowing the ins and outs of the city code for such things. they aren't there to be the permit police.
 

DekeT

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If it was an owner finance, or the owner paid some of the finance fees or costs, and then included them in the price of the house (very common) then those costs need to be backed out of the sale price.

Not sure about the refi, but they are trying to get the big picture. Accurate info is actually a benefit to all of the taxpayers in your jurisdiction. That way, everyone is fairly taxed.

Charles

This is entirely the correct answer. Some though, would rather beat their chests and rant.
 

Higgins

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A friend of the family has a 2nd home in Fontana WI. The county/township was reassessing every property. They sent every home owner a notice they had so much time to make arrangement for an appraiser to meet with the home owner to review the property.

It turns out you don't have to meet them and leave them in. However, they will take the average of the adjacent properties, and add 20% to their appraisal.

Also, the county is planning on reassessing the properties every 5 yrs now!

AL
 

1233user

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A friend of the family has a 2nd home in Fontana WI. The county/township was reassessing every property. They sent every home owner a notice they had so much time to make arrangement for an appraiser to meet with the home owner to review the property.

It turns out you don't have to meet them and leave them in. However, they will take the average of the adjacent properties, and add 20% to their appraisal.

AL

The 4th amendment of the constitution protects people against illegal searches by the government, and also protects citizens from being punished for not allowing illegal searches. Adding 20% to the appraisal because you won't let the government into your house is a violation of this. If it was me, I would be suing the town if they raised my appraisal just because I wouldn't let them into my house!
 

Higgins

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I agree, but you can't fight city hall and win. Unless you have deep pockets, and like to spend it on lawyers............. One needs to understand how to work around the issues....
 

Charles (in GA)

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Do you enter peoples houses when assessing property?

Missed this earlier. No, as a general rule, we do not. Sometimes we are invited in. It really makes no difference. Its fairly easy to guess at the number of rooms, plumbing fixtures, etc. Permits give us some info, simple things like the number of roof vents for plumbing and location also tell us how many baths, etc.

Normal replacement of items in the house makes no difference, its when the house is completely refinished inside, say a 1900 vintage house was gutted to the studs and rebuilt inside and out in say 1995 does it have an affect. We adjust the effective build date in the software when it calculates cost.

Charles
 

Hobbit

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If you give them all of this information and ever have to appeal your value or take them to court they will use this data against you. There is more than one reason for collecting the data. Let them do a drive by. If you paid market for your house their value opinion should be close.
 

Charles (in GA)

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Originally Posted by dfox1234 In any state you do not have to let the government onto your property. The 4th amendment protects against unreasonable search and seizure. The government needs a warrant to step onto your property. Note: edited by justanengineer after quoting of dfox1234


Fixed it for ya! While its unwise to start a ******* contest if you dont have the resources (ie lawyers) to back it up, you should know your rights. My parents had the local building inspector escorted off their property ~20 years ago by the police. He was hell bent on writing a stop work order and fining them, their lawyer made a building permit magically appear in the mail at zero cost.

You probably do not know the laws of every state. In Georgia, the appraiser has the right to enter the property (but not the inside of buildings) for the purpose of appraising the property.

O.C.G.A. § 48-5-264.1 (2013)

§ 48-5-264.1. Right of chief appraiser and others to inspect property; supplying identification to occupant of property; statement to be included in tax bill


(a) The chief appraiser, other members of the county property appraisal staff, authorized agents of the county board of tax assessors, and members of the county board of tax assessors who are conducting official business of the chief appraiser, the county appraisal staff, or the county board of tax assessors may go upon property outside of buildings, posted or otherwise, in order to carry out the duty of making appraisals of the fair market value of taxable property in the county, other than property returned directly to the commissioner; provided, however, such person representing such chief appraiser, appraisal staff, or county board of tax assessors shall carry identification which is sufficiently prominent to permit the occupant to readily ascertain that such person is such representative. Such representative shall not enter upon the property unless reasonable notice has been provided to the owner and to the occupant of the property regarding the purpose for which such person is entering upon such property.

The "reasonable notice" specified by the law has been determined to be as little and as simple as a notice posted on the assessors web site informing the property owners of the county that the appraisers may from time to time visit their property. It does not have to be specific to the property in question. Most people will huff and puff until they are told that, if necessary, a Sheriffs Deputy will be called to accompany the appraiser, at which point they shut up and allow the appraiser to do their job.

Charles
 
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dfox1234

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You probably do not know the laws of every state. In Georgia, the appraiser has the right to enter the property (but not the inside of buildings) for the purpose of appraising the property.



The "reasonable notice" specified by the law has been determined to be as little and as simple as a notice posted on the assessors web site informing the property owners of the county that the appraisers may from time to time visit their property. It does not have to be specific to the property in question. Most people will huff and puff until they are told that, if necessary, a Sheriffs Deputy will be called to accompany the appraiser, at which point they shut up and allow the appraiser to do their job.

Charles

I'm sorry, however the little local town law does not override the 4th amendment. You do not have to give the government access to your property. They can go get a court order, in which case you must comply. But just because the local town legislates that the government must be allowed on and in your property does not take away one's 4th ammendment right to unreasonable search and seizure, which the federal supreme court has deemed as entering a property without consent and or a warrant, sorry.
 

Oldbear

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We had an assessment done to our house while on our honeymoon... We suddenly had an extra bathroom, a fireplace and extensive renos... but couldn't appeal it because we were gone during the time allowed.
 

lat905

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I'm sorry, however the little local town law does not override the 4th amendment. You do not have to give the government access to your property. They can go get a court order, in which case you must comply. But just because the local town legislates that the government must be allowed on and in your property does not take away one's 4th ammendment right to unreasonable search and seizure, which the federal supreme court has deemed as entering a property without consent and or a warrant, sorry.

And our government has recently shown that they don't respect or abide by the constitution anymore, so the whole argument is shot in the a$$.



Simple fact is, unless you have deep enough pockets and are resilient enough to fight in court, they will screw you over severely on an assessment if they want to. It doesn't matter what your rights are if you don't have the ability to fight for them. I posted earlier in the thread about what they did with my assessment. The only way I could get a correct assessment was to let them inside. Otherwise, i was up fro a very long uphill battle that would prove my point but leave me broke even if I could win.

So I let the guy in. Of course, I'm 6'3", 390 lbs and built like a truck. I stayed about 6" from the guy and looked really pissed off for the whole 6 minutes he was in my house. He was so nervous he wrote down exactly what I told him and he couldn't get out the door fast enough.

Result was actually ok, they re-assessed the house and re-worked the tax tables at the same time, so my taxes did not change.
 

Charles (in GA)

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I'm sorry, however the little local town law does not override the 4th amendment. You do not have to give the government access to your property. They can go get a court order, in which case you must comply. But just because the local town legislates that the government must be allowed on and in your property does not take away one's 4th ammendment right to unreasonable search and seizure, which the federal supreme court has deemed as entering a property without consent and or a warrant, sorry.

Had you bothered to read my post fully you would have see that its not "local town law", its the OCGA, Official Code of Georgia, Annotated. Its the law of the land in Georgia, been upheld in courts. Sorry, but in some other states its the law also. Visiting the property for the purposes of inspecting it for taxation is not new, or unusual, again, if you read, it has nothing to do with going INSIDE any building, just the exterior of buildings and other improvements.

Charles
 
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justanengineer

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You probably do not know the laws of every state. In Georgia, the appraiser has the right to enter the property (but not the inside of buildings) for the purpose of appraising the property.

I do not need to know the state laws, its FEDERAL per the Constitution. While serving on active duty we were dispatched in 2004 to West Texas and East New Mexico to assist with border patrol, during which time we were often reminded of this by our chain of command as part of our rules of engagement. Even in uniform and riding in military vehicles, we could not legally set foot on private property without the owner's consent or evidence of a crime. The same applies to civilian law enforcement, if a property line is posted they cannot cross it without a warrant, invitation, or evidence of a crime. Ive personally had that explained to me quite a bit as well, the land next to the farm is rented by the local cops' hunting club and yes, theyve tried the "we're cops, its legal" bs line to justify their poor shooting.

And our government has recently shown that they don't respect or abide by the constitution anymore, so the whole argument is shot in the a$$.

Simple fact is, unless you have deep enough pockets and are resilient enough to fight in court, they will screw you over severely on an assessment if they want to. It doesn't matter what your rights are if you don't have the ability to fight for them.

Very valid points. JME, but $100 paid to a lawyer known to win in exchange for a letter to the appropriate town/county office gets results without ever going to court.
 
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DekeT

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And our government has recently shown that they don't respect or abide by the constitution anymore, so the whole argument is shot in the a$$.

I don't think you did such a great job of making your case against the government, but you did help make my case about the chest beating.
 

Hobbit

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Certainly nothing wrong with allowing an inspection due to an appeal and if the Appraisal Dept. is worth it's salt they will insist and have a court ordered inspection if you sue and particularly prior to any mediation or trial. But otherwise I would involve my attorney before I would allow entry.
 
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