Well then the federal law and the 4th amendment stop at the Georgia state line. Good luck! I guess this is probably the only advantage to living in NY. The constitution is followed here. If the local tax guy shows up, cop or not and the property owner does not want them on the property they are both asked to leave if, this is not an emergency situation that is.
Property Assessment
- Thread starter brycez28
- Start date
Well then the federal law and the 4th amendment stop at the Georgia state line. Good luck! I guess this is probably the only advantage to living in NY. The constitution is followed here. If the local tax guy shows up, cop or not and the property owner does not want them on the property they are both asked to leave if, this is not an emergency situation that is.
HoosierMark
Well-known member
While you are all talking about rights and laws. Lets look at the issue. The county needs to know what the improvements are so they can be taxed accurately. How they gather the info is the issue. I sit on a tax appeal board and we hear about 4-500 per year as well as the assessor hearing many many more prior to the hearings. The goal is to get the right information to determine the value. In our area, they drive by and do what they can to get the right info. With 20,000 plus land parcels in the county, there is no way they can or want to inspect each one's interior. They do a great job for what they have to work with. When proof is given info is wrong, they change the assessment. The main issue I see is that people do not want to provide any or only limited documentation for error corrections. We follow the Indiana laws about making changes and provide the property owners with the info when they file the appeal.The rules say we need certain documentation to make changes. Yet they still come in with nothing to substantiate their position except they think the assessment is too high. If you want to appeal, provide information about your property and where the errors are. Old MLS sheets, floor plans, an appraisal from your last mortgage, etc. Give them something to work with. Most government workers I have ever dealt with have been great people who just want to do their job accurately. If they get all the properties assessed accurately, we will all pay a fair amount of taxes!
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
Thank You!
In GA these boards are referred to as BOE, Board of Equalization. They hear the appeals and render decisions. They have basic training in the mass appraisal process so they understand how it works, and they sit and hear cases. You are correct. Everyone seems to show up with no information, or info that does not justify their argument, and then they make a passionate plea about how they pay way too much taxes, and more than their neighbors, but offer nothing to show that their property is improperly valued.
We had one woman show up two years ago for her hearing with a brand new, fresh appraisal. She made her case, and slapped down the appraisal and upon looking at it, the board saw that the appraisal had a much higher value on it than the Assessors had.... the value she was arguing. She was basically told she needed to shut up and leave and hope the board didn't agree to raise her value.
Charles
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
The OP asked a simple question about "I got this letter asking questions, from the tax appraiser". I'm not sure if the OP's questions were answered or not. Somehow it morphed into a chest beating discussion about tax appraisers entering property.
I did some simple Google searches and came up with the following articles and information that may be of interest to an informed, interested taxpayer.
In Minnesota, apparently state law ends all right to appeal of property owners who forbid physical inspection of the property (exterior).
http://www.co.stearns.mn.us/PropertyRoads/PropertyAssessments/TheAssessorsCorner/FieldInspections
Good article from Univ of North Carolina about this. He also mentions that Indiana code specifically allows for entry upon property by the tax appraiser, and that Texas and Mississippi allow inspections of commercial property.
http://canons.sog.unc.edu/?p=7325
Here is a relevant paper presented by two authors from the The Heinz School, Carnegie-Mellon University, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/rs9f/nta982n.pdf
And apparently Missouri state code also allows for entry upon taxpayers property for inspection purposes.
http://www.franklinmo.org/Assessor/AssessorRealEstateInformation.htm
Google maps and Google Earth and quality aerial photography make it less and less necessary for a tax appraiser to visit property. When the appraiser can get aerial photography that is so good you can read the door mat at the front door, why waste the time going out to look at it in person?
Charles
I did some simple Google searches and came up with the following articles and information that may be of interest to an informed, interested taxpayer.
In Minnesota, apparently state law ends all right to appeal of property owners who forbid physical inspection of the property (exterior).
http://www.co.stearns.mn.us/PropertyRoads/PropertyAssessments/TheAssessorsCorner/FieldInspections
Good article from Univ of North Carolina about this. He also mentions that Indiana code specifically allows for entry upon property by the tax appraiser, and that Texas and Mississippi allow inspections of commercial property.
http://canons.sog.unc.edu/?p=7325
Here is a relevant paper presented by two authors from the The Heinz School, Carnegie-Mellon University, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/rs9f/nta982n.pdf
And apparently Missouri state code also allows for entry upon taxpayers property for inspection purposes.
http://www.franklinmo.org/Assessor/AssessorRealEstateInformation.htm
Google maps and Google Earth and quality aerial photography make it less and less necessary for a tax appraiser to visit property. When the appraiser can get aerial photography that is so good you can read the door mat at the front door, why waste the time going out to look at it in person?
Charles
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What efforts did you make to assist this person in the appeal process?
States cannot legislate away the constitution. The 4th amendment protects against unreasonable search and seizure. There are several exclusions to this, one of which being a court order, the second being exigent circumstance, the third being hot pursuit.
Just because the local tax guy shows up with barney fife and they want to get into your house to ''deterimine the value" does not override the 4th amendment. You may deny them entry into and onto your property unless it is an emergency or they have a court order or they are chasing someone.
I think I'm done with this thread.
Thanks and I'll put away my soap box now.
Architorture
Well-known member
Unreasonable... You seem to miss that part
A quick google search seems to indicate that 4th amendment issues only arise out of entering e actual building... a simple visit to the property doesn't seem to get challenged anywhere
A quick google search seems to indicate that 4th amendment issues only arise out of entering e actual building... a simple visit to the property doesn't seem to get challenged anywhere
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That you ask this question tells me you don't have a clue. The people that do the work on the equalization board can be your best friends and work the hardest in getting the fairest amount of tax to your property. Amazes me how people ***** and rant about what goes on in their community and don't have the faintest clue about how things actually work or have ever put any effort into learning.
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Falcon67
Well-known member
I call BS. Just about every state has rules that allow property appraisers to access the property to carry out the assessment requirements by the state. And I see you GA people get your cars assessed for Ad Valorum too.
" <table summary="layout table" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="419"><tbody><tr><td>PUBLIC NOTICE:</td></tr><tr><td class="style64" align="justify">You are hereby notified (and should communicate this notification to any other occupants of your property) that pursuant to O.C.GA 48-5-264.1 (a), representatives of the DeKalb Property Appraisal Department, with proper ID, may enter upon your property during normal business hours, for the purposes of collecting accurate data or any verifications thereof due to any permits issued, return of value filing, revaluations (partial or whole), parcel sales, and appeal reviews. Please contact our office if you have questions.</td></tr><tr><td>
</td></tr></tbody></table>
HoosierMark
Well-known member
Dfox1234 to answer your question. When they file their appeal, they do so on a form. On the back of the form there is specific information about what to bring to the appeal and what information will help them. The local assessors office has shown them this section and had them sign below it to show they have seen it. We got tired of people saying they did not know about it. Now we flip the form over in the hearing and show them their own signature about it with the area circled. It is just a symptom of people's expectations. So now you know what we do to help them succeed.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
I did, on my tax assessment !
About 5 years ago, I thought my assessment was too high and confirmed it by looking up my neighbors assessments. I request a hearing with the assessment board (you can only do this once a year). Presented some pictures of my house and others in the neighborhood along with their assessments and answered a few questions (less than 15 minutes).
I did not get all of the reduction I asked for, but I got most of it !
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
Yes, vehicles are taxable personal property in Georgia. The situation has changed however in the past couple of years.
The state has always wanted to capture sales tax on private party sales, which it tried to do and was ruled illegal in court. So they set up a title tax system. Now, when you buy a vehicle, or bring one into the state, you don't pay sales tax, you pay a hefty title tax, I think its 7% right now, and you never again pay tax on the vehicle, just a $20 tag fee each year. For someone who buys and keeps a car, its good, you save money in the end. If you trade every couple of years, its very costly. There are lots of exceptions and workarounds built in for various situations. Cars changing hands within the family don't pay, I think they pay ½%, not sure, thats the tax commissioners side of it, assessors don't get involved except in value appeals.
Vehicles purchased under the old system, like mine, who pay the tax every year, continue to do so. Get a new car, you are under the new system.
The values used for the tax is based on a "book" compiled by the state. It does not account for differences in mileage or condition, so we are seeing a lot of appeals of the state created values on older vehicles.
A '76 Mercury Cougar was given a crazy value, something like $4500. Someone bought one for $500 that had been wrecked and the body was clearly kinked. We put $500 on it for a value when they appealed.
Charles
Yup. A week after I got my building permit I got a letter saying I was going to get re-assessed....weird right?
Not weird, typical. But I don't see the problem. Did you think you were going to get an exception?
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
I'm curious what you think he might be able to do. His purpose is to JUDGE, sits on a panel of three or so, they hear each case, presented by the appraiser or assessor, then they hear the property owners side of it. The consider all of the facts, and make a decision. He is not in a position to assist the property owner in preparing a "defense". The best he can do is ask questions that lead the property owner in the right direction.
G1K
Well-known member
I can argue otherwise...
2CRUZ
Well-known member
So after reading all the posts here can any of you tell me what is the best way to go about protesting my appraisal on my new garage. I live in Illinois. I went before the board right after I got my appraisal and here they had given me what they called a 4yr extension i guess because they want to encorage building construction here in our small town. They told me I couldn't apeal the assessement until after the four years. Any advice on how I should be prepared for the next time I go up there?
Thanks
Thanks
Falcon67
Well-known member
Thanks for the clarification Charles. We pay a 6.25% sales tax on vehicles and yearly tag fees, but no real Ad Valorum on the vehicles after that. So it's pretty similar, sounds like.
You might be surprised at how flexible the country tax appraisal people can be, when you approach with some facts and data, instead of leading off with the "you sorry sonsa.." stuff.
They appraised our shop at $25K for the tax year 2011 when it was built. I knew when they looked it over - I saw the footprints around the building. Busted! Anyway, when the assessment came in I simply filled out the protest form and mailed it back before the deadline. A few weeks later I got a call from the department for a follow up. He led off with "what can we do to help you?" and I just said I had right at $14K in receipts for the building and while I was proud of the ROI I thought the value was a bit high. No problem, value adjusted to 14K. Thanks, have a nice day.
We've done it more than a few times over the years and usually the best "weapon" is to find comparables to your property that the department might not correlate to your circumstances. Or, extenuating items that might not be apparent in the usual drive-by observation. We only lost one of those, and that was in the 2006~2007 era when some people were paying stupid money for houses that were way over valued. I told the appraiser that year "that comparable is WAY over priced, that house is a junk pile - been in it." They knocked off a couple of $K but not what we'd have liked. The main comparable used that year went foreclosure in 2009 and was boarded up for a year or so. So - can't win them all for sure. But you won't win any if you don't go down and work with the people on the other end.
You might be surprised at how flexible the country tax appraisal people can be, when you approach with some facts and data, instead of leading off with the "you sorry sonsa.." stuff.
They appraised our shop at $25K for the tax year 2011 when it was built. I knew when they looked it over - I saw the footprints around the building. Busted! Anyway, when the assessment came in I simply filled out the protest form and mailed it back before the deadline. A few weeks later I got a call from the department for a follow up. He led off with "what can we do to help you?" and I just said I had right at $14K in receipts for the building and while I was proud of the ROI I thought the value was a bit high. No problem, value adjusted to 14K. Thanks, have a nice day. We've done it more than a few times over the years and usually the best "weapon" is to find comparables to your property that the department might not correlate to your circumstances. Or, extenuating items that might not be apparent in the usual drive-by observation. We only lost one of those, and that was in the 2006~2007 era when some people were paying stupid money for houses that were way over valued. I told the appraiser that year "that comparable is WAY over priced, that house is a junk pile - been in it." They knocked off a couple of $K but not what we'd have liked. The main comparable used that year went foreclosure in 2009 and was boarded up for a year or so. So - can't win them all for sure. But you won't win any if you don't go down and work with the people on the other end.
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