Property clean up and a little dirt work

[250]

My wife and I have purchased 10 acres in the Sierra foothills in California. We're looking at options on how to do some clean up and initial work for an eventual house/shop etc etc etc. A crew sponsored by a Calfire grant went through a few years ago and cleaned out nearly all the brushy stuff, what remains are mostly small diameter oak and medium size gray pines (digger pines/bull pines) which will all be removed. Most of those are too deformed or leaning to feel comfortable tackling myself, so those will be hired out. Some flat, mostly gently sloping down, one area fairly steep, decomposed granite, don't see strong evidence of clay.

General plans for the short term.
1) get it mowed down. We're browning out now so it only needs to be done once.
2) develop a fire break around the main portion of the parcel.
3) get rid of the pines and their slash. Other misc vegetation clean up.
4) smooth out the area immediately around the well head. Drilling/well equipment has been stuck up there more than once and left some really nice holes.
5) initial driveway development. We currently have access through the adjacent parcel which to my knowledge has no interested parties for purchasing. I was given a quote of $750 to smooth out the area around the well head, $2500 to smooth and cut in a rough driveway.

A friend strongly suggested we get a little dozer and while I've always wanted one, in walking the property this weekend, I'm not really sure its worth the price of admission. The rest of the parcel isn't that rough, though there are some rocks I'd love to dispose of, I don't think there are acres that need to be smoothed out. He has all the equipment to do it, but isn't available for my use.

An excavator with a thumb could cut the fire break, deal with rocks, and deal with a little bit of smoothing.

The last couple days after I sort of let the dozer ideas slide, I've been looking for a compact track loader with mower attachment to rent. Haven't found one yet, only one with a brush hog which doesn't seem like it would be the best in grass.

I've read recommendations for using dozers, excavators, backhoes, compact track loaders, larger track loaders, etc etc. Given equipment prices, for the near future, probably only can budget one and if we're buying a noisy piece of equipment instead of a car for the mrs, lets make it something we get good use out of. I expect a variety opinions but I'm interested in hearing what people think.

Or hire it all out. Not really the path of interest though.

 

[karoc]

Very nice looking, with 10 acres yall have elbow room. Congratulations

 

[Renegade1LI]

I would look into a tractor with some attachments,grader box, forks,rake you can do alot of work. Some good package deals out there, most will take a mower deck, add a brush hog if needed, you get alot of bang for the buck with a tractor.

 

[CraigStu]

I have rented an excavator twice. CAT 303.5 and Bobcat E42. Love using them but I am also considering a purchase. 6 months ago I got one and was hoping to use it to yank out stumps left when they cleared the land to build our house 5 years ago. Turns out it was almost useless. I thought I'd be able to dig around the stump, use the tines on the bucket to slash the roots, and then yank. What I found was it would be a long job involving my chain saw to cut the roots. The 2 day rental didn't work out for that as I had a lot of other stuff to do. So it would not yank stumps on it's own but it would pick up a 15ft branch or piece of trunk and carry it off just fine. It also has a huge radius allowing a pickup, rotate, and drop it maybe 30ft away w/o moving the excavator. I keep thinking maybe a tractor w/ a loader bucket and a backhoe would be a multi purpose machine and wheels would be a lot more friendly to the surface but you pretty much need to roll the machine to move much. And I have yet to see a backhoe w/ a thumb which for me is an absolute requirement. I look forward to following this thread.

 

[racecougar]

Agreed. From what you've shown in the photos, a tractor can function as the Swiss army knife that you're after here.

 

[BombShelter]

Beautiful lot, I wouldn't worry about a tractor too much, at some point you'll be looking at landscaping bills and start saying you can do it yourself. A few of my buddies started their concrete/landscaping businesses renting equipment until they got to the point buying was easier financially.

I've been watching YouTube videos on driveway easements, it seems there's a ton of landlocked property or areas that can you can only get to by going across the neighbors lot. This can turn into an expensive cluster-truck if the neighbor has enough of traffic on their property. I'd zipper that down with a great real estate lawyer before doing any work on the property. The last one I watched, the neighbors wouldn't let a contractor bring dumptruck dirt down an easment road, they blocked it with trucks. The contractor had recent surveyor drawings but the neighbors said the plot markers were off. The dirt guys ended up driving home.

 

[ericm]

Congratulations!

Pictures always flatten terrain but that looks fairly flat and relatively easy to manage. I'd hire out the well head smoothing and driveway and also the mowing this time. Buy a tractor to mow with next year and do the fire break with a disc or harrow if that's the kind of fire break you want. You can also use it to move tree parts as needed, with a grapple if you want to get fancy. Then rent an excavator if you want to remove the rocks. Tractor backhoe attachments are expensive and don't work as well as an excavator.

 

[dougf]

Congratulations on the property! I'm originally from that area (Forest Ranch) and am pretty envious!

 

[Hooked]

A tractor with front end loader(and forks), box blade, shredder/brush hog and grapple.

 

[Bodj Built]

For a second I thought my dad made an account here! He and my mom just picked up property in Tollhouse, so similar region, and are going through all of the same things as you. He bought a small tractor with a 4ft bucket, but is rebuilding the motor. They had a neighbor do some road grading at the entrance, and my brother and I are trying to convince my dad to buy his own skidsteer. It's not a cheap investment, but you are typically able to resell them for what you paid. I'll have my dad look into having the a crew clear out a bunch of the small stuff, as it's pretty dense and hard to get through. He also just got a quote for the well... around $14k.

Congrats on the property! It'll be an awesome blessing through the years.

 

[250]

Thanks for the replies.

Let me clarify the access issue, or non issue. There are 8, 10 ac parcels being sold of, we're the only ones on our side of the road so far, and our access currently is the trail cut in by the well drillers. No interested parties in the parcel that we're driving on currently and the seller has no objections to us using it. I'd like to get site plan worked out before cutting in the driveway, especially if I'm hiring it out. I'm 98% sure how its going to lay, but no need to waste money doing something twice if we don't have to.

I'm thinking a bare dirt fire break. So being able to disc it or till it or the like around this time of year. Then mow inside of that.

14k for a well is a steal in these parts. Ours already had a well on it, but it would have been a $45k hole based on how deep they went.

I've been picking away at the idea of building a house for a while and when we moved 4 years ago to our current town, the time seemed right. Covid disagreed. If I could convince my wife to let me take a year off to build a house I would, but she'll never agree to that, so we'll have to do some of it the traditional way. I expect that down the road, all the landscaping will be done by me, except any large concrete pours.

Not going to lie, a dozer, excavator or skid steer sound more fun, but I can see some truth to the tractor argument.

 

[ericm]

The tractor is sub optimal for everything except pulling implements like a plow or harrow. But they have a very wide range of things they can do with the right implement. For example we have 20ac of steep mostly forest here in CA. I can't drive the tractor into the forest or on the steep parts to get logs but with a forestry winch I can pull them to where I can grab them with a grapple. I could cut them into rounds where they are and carry them out to a road but that's really hard work. I cut a lot of brush and trees that need chipping so the tractor also runs a PTO chipper a lot of the time. Our place in OR is hay fields and pasture. There the tractors will be mowing and haying.

 

[BombShelter]

Sorry if I'm a little too careful, in the last few years I've personally been involved with "easement" disputes. One property is similar but it goes to Lake Huron, somebody new bought the lakefront lot and then told the eight other plots inland they couldn't cross the easement to get to the beach anymore. The other was somebody bought the easement (for $1) over city-owned property to a land-locked parcel , the city "forgot" there was a written easement on the very tiny right of way, maybe 10' x 20'? The new owner refused entry and put up a big chain. I guess to prevent the acres next door from being developed. Both of these take a ton of time, stretched out months, and money to sort out.

Otherwise it looks like a fun property, I'd probably be planting some apple trees and growing hot peppers right away.

 

[250]

No worries bombshelter, that's the beauty of GJ. Collective knowledge.

 

[kmacht]

Buy a mini excavator with a blade and a thumb. A dozer is only good for pushing dirt and a tractor is suboptimal for most of what you want to do and will cost at least a few additional grand in attachments on top of the tractor to do grading or digging work. I am clearing 6 acres myself and the mini excavator (bobcat 331) has been a huge help. You don’t cut down the trees, you dig around them a few feet out to break up some of the roots and then push them over. Using the weight of the tree to get the stump out of the ground is way easier than trying to get it out after the tree has already been felled. You can also use the mini excavator and thumb to move the slash around and to hold up the trunk to cut it up for firewood. For the rocks you dig and pull them out with the thumb on the excavator or if they are too large you dig a hole next to them deeper than the rock, roll it into the hole and then bury it. For grading, the blade on the mini excavator is almost as good as a small dozer. The tracks have tons of grip and the blade works great for grading especially if it has a float setting. I also have a larger kioti tractor, a mini excavator, and an old IH backhoe. If I could only afford one I would buy the excavator again in a heartbeat.

 

[rzims]

Not sure exactly where you're located, I'm in Grass Valley. We have 6 acres of mostly hillside and some flat.
I have a little 30hp kubota that works well for keeping the flat areas clear, grading the driveway and moving rock and dirt. I'm currently trying to cut in a road/firebreak and the tractor is NOT ideal. It's working, but it's stressful and slow on the hillsides.
If I had it to do over, I would probably have gotten a mini-excavator. Better on the hills, better for dealing with trees, better at cut and fill which is what I'm doing for the road.
We had a huge amount of overgrown manzanita and ended up hiring it out to someone with a serious masticator for clearing
Good luck, looks like a beautiful property

 

[Odd-job]

Following this thread in case I ever grow a pair to try something similar.

Edit: Vicariously living through you OP for the time being

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Chain saw, learn to use it starting with small trees in open areas. Tall stumps are usually easier to pull/push out, cut them short if you want to grind, burn or let them rot. A compact tractor with loader bucket, tiller, back (or box) blade will be fine for leveling and possibly creating the driveway, also useful for the cut up trees (not to useful for the stumps until they are ground or pulled). A belly mount mower will struggle with those weeds but probably doable. These should be useful for many years.
If you get into a hurry rent a mid sized excavator to get rid of the stumps.

 

[75gmck25]

If you stop by a Bobcat dealer you will see every kind of tool that you can think of that attaches to a Bobcat. I'm sure they are not cheap, but they really speed up the process of cutting and cleaning a lot.

 

[tarmy]

This. Box blade, QA front end for grapple and time.

 

[Adaylate]

Bombshelter's advice is spot on.
You don't have an easement until it is in writing and the driveway is in the legally described location and all other conditions met.

if you get a tractor, be careful with the ROPS up and low hanging tree branches!
Beautiful property!
Good luck!

 

[rzims]

Bombshelter's advice is spot on.
You don't have an easement until it is in writing and the driveway is in the legally described location and all other conditions met.

if you get a tractor, be careful with the ROPS up and low hanging tree branches!
Beautiful property!
Good luck!

Also make sure the shop door is ALL the way up when driving in with the ROPs.... ask me how I know

 

[ycgoat]

I bought land and put up a shop / giant shed on a slab. If I had unlimited resources I would have gotten an excavator, front end loader, and zero turn mower, but I settled on a 47HP Kubota with standard bucket, forks, and mower. We also just got a rake. Everything can be rented but it is a hassle getting the equipment to and from the property without adding extra days to the rental

 

[macdabs]

I have a JD110 TLB they no longer make them since th Mini excavator and skid steer market exploded in the last 10 years . I also have a new KX40-4 excvator mini and a SVL75 skid steer . I sit on 20 acres of rough north east rock ground , I used the 110 TLB to build my garage in 2010 and clear an acre of large oak and stumps . The mini or skid steer will make quick work with two operators hands down . The Kx 40-4 can dig like anything and nothing beats the speed of a skid steer.
But overall on home property from start to finish you can't beat the 110 TLB . Kubota makes a M59 i think that would be a smidge more capable but the 110 TLB is easier to trailer . I'm sure you could find a used one and the Yamar engines last for ever and when you enter the maitenance mode on your property the 110 won't rip up the terrrain like a track machine or skid steer .
Mac

 

[STClurker]

Cough cough, towable

 

[mdim]

When I bought my property in the foothills, was pretty similar to yours, basically nothing on it. Bought an L series Kubota tractor and have spent the past 3 years with the box blade and grapple clearing brush, building roads and fire breaks, etc to clean up around the future home site.

Ultimately an excavator, skidsteer, dozer would be more useful if you had all 3; The tractor is a compromise but gets a lot of work done.

 

[Fav Onefour]

Use the tractor and attachments for most of your general projects. Work around the big rocks and stumps for awhile and then rent a bigger machine for those.
No reason to go nuts buying a huge machine for the big stuff I get the idea of wanting the machine, but it's a lot of money for something probably not suited to do most of the general work.

We have a machine shed full of equipment to do the various jobs around the farm. Nobody hops in the excavator to pick rocks. It just sits there until nothing else can do the job.
The smallest, most capable tool is the one that gets used the most. It's like the 3/8 impact. Those get used most of the time but they can't do every single task.

Buy the machine you will use for most jobs. Rent or hire out the big guns for the few times needed.

 

[Hank11]

snipped a lot...

Buy the machine you will use for most jobs. Rent or hire out the big guns for the few times needed.

You would be amazed at how much work a skilled operator on a real excavator can do in a day. Hire the heavy work out and buy a general purpose machine, probably a tractor, or a skid steer would not be wrong.

 

[250]

Sorry guys, didn't mean to neglect all the comments. The summer went sideways in a most unexpected way, but I think we're getting back on track.

We had the area around the well dozed. That has made access and initial site layout much nicer. Found a guy to mow with a skidsteer and mower, hired him for 4 hrs, and was unimpressed with how much he mowed. Maybe my expectations were too high, maybe he was a slow operator... doesn't matter now.

I have plans to rent a JD 35 mini ex from the local place. Biggest one they have and play with it for a day and see what I think. A tractor probably isn't a bad idea, dig, scoop and mow. Some parts of the hill would probably be too steep to mow though.

Curiosity question. What's a reasonable distance to have shipped? Made up scenario, machine A is within 200 miles, machine B is 1500 miles for $15k less. Assuming similar condition.

 

[ericm]

I think that unless you get really lucky, the price of a far away machine plus shipping is about the same as the price of the same machine in CA. At least judging from tractor implement prices. Most stuff is made or shipped from the country of origin to a port back east, then has to be shipped to the west coast. The only stuff that's the reverse is made in China and gets shipped to the distributor in CA or OR.

Many tractor dealers will deliver for free for a certain distance. Above that it's at about their cost. I don't know about excavators but its probably similar.

 

[CraigStu]

I bought a mini-ex 6 weeks ago from 180 miles away. I offered the guy what he was asking if he would cover the shipping. Maybe could have gotten him down some but I liked that he would cover it no matter what it turned out to be.

 

[Dig Doug]

Buying the machine 1500 miles away….

Im not a fan of that

If you had a truck and trailer it would cost over 1500 to go pick it up your self !
Say 3,000 miles @ 10 miles per gallon, 300 gallons of diesel @$4 bucks is $1,200 bucks in fuel alone

the mini 35 is about 8500 lbs so easily trailerable

 

[Dig Doug]

Call a local rental yard and see if they will sell a machine !

 

[racecougar]

Buying the machine 1500 miles away….

Im not a fan of that

If you had a truck and trailer it would cost over 1500 to go pick it up your self !
Say 3,000 miles @ 10 miles per gallon, 300 gallons of diesel @$4 bucks is $1,200 bucks in fuel alone

the mini 35 is about 8500 lbs so easily trailerable

I'll spend $1,200 in fuel to save $15,000 any day of the week. I'd do better than 10 MPG though.

 

[jblnut]

……, I've been looking for a compact track loader with mower attachment to rent. Haven't found one yet, only one with a brush hog which doesn't seem like it would be the best in grass.

I have a brush mower for my skiddy and for my 2038r Deere and they both do a nice job in grass. It’s not a nice job like an actually lawn mower will do but they’ll knock 3’ tall stuff down in one pass and it looks as nice as it could doing that.

Use the tractor and attachments for most of your general projects. Work around the big rocks and stumps for awhile and then rent a bigger machine for those.
No reason to go nuts buying a huge machine for the big stuff I get the idea of wanting the machine, but it's a lot of money for something probably not suited to do most of the general work.

We have a machine shed full of equipment to do the various jobs around the farm. Nobody hops in the excavator to pick rocks. It just sits there until nothing else can do the job.
The smallest, most capable tool is the one that gets used the most. It's like the 3/8 impact. Those get used most of the time but they can't do every single task.

Buy the machine you will use for most jobs. Rent or hire out the big guns for the few times needed.

Agree with all of that. I have two different size skid steers, a 9k mini-ex and a 90k Cat excavator and a Deere 2038r and a multitude of other tractors and dozers and stuff ….. I’ll hop in the little Deere to do almost everything around the yard. The big stuff only comes out for the really big stuff. I leveled out three loads of gravel a few weeks ago with the 2038r instead of grabbing the Bobcat S300. I wanted to see how it worked doing bigger things and just kept going with it. It was quite enjoyable.

OP - If I were in your shoes I’d look for a 35-50hp tractor and get a brush mower and whatever else you’d use more than a few times a year and rent the rest. A Mimi-ex is super handy but they have a steep admission price to get nothing decent.

 

[Dig Doug]

I'll spend $1,200 in fuel to save $15,000 any day of the week. I'd do better than 10 MPG though.

Oh Shoot Read that as 15oo

15,000 so would I


W/ the money saved maybe I can get some reading comprehension ….


lol

 

[250]

I think we've decided on a path forward. I got talking with a future neighbor originally about his shop building, but we moved on to his tractor and he commented that he's often worried about rolling over while he's out working... hmm. Our lots have similar topography.

After talking financials with the Mrs, I'm going to start looking for excavator. I guess I've been "looking at" excavators for a few months, or however old this thread, but now I can "look for" and excavator. A blade would be nice, but a thumb is required. It would be nice to have it already attached, however it can be added as long as the hydraulics are there. I'm going to look at the 15-30k lbs range. If we get too big, then I'll want to dig out a basement and really go hog wild. Smaller sized, the risk for rocks too big for the machine to move is real. We'll probably still hire out the pad work.

I feel like traveling outside my local area is going to net more options. I'm not skilled at evaluating such equipment, is finding someone local to the machine for an evaluation doable, or more of a needle in a haystack to actually find?

 

[rzims]

Our neighbor rented a bobcat mini excavator for a week and then went back and offered to buy it. The rental yard made him a good deal. The nice part is the rental yard also has a bobcat mechanic and can do any maintenance/repairs that he needs. They've also given him some good deals on accessories since he's a regular customer.

 

[BombShelter]

I'd watch a ton of videos like Diesel Creek

Diesel Creek

HEAVY EQUIPMENT REVIVAL - REPAIR - RESTORATION - CONSTRUCTION

www.youtube.com

I bought a nice little used but working Bobcat Skid Steer a few years ago, hydraulic hoses started popping after doing some grading on a hard dry yard a couple months later. Luckily we have a small local hose maker a few miles from me but I think the machine has 12+ hoses and I've replaced over 1/2 of them and it isn't easy, some of the access is only 1.5" wide. I had to grind down 19 mm wrenches to about nothing to get the connections loose.

After one hose is fixed, it doesn't take long for another to bust and so it goes for a few weeks. The seller did a good job of only updating the easy and visible hoses.

 

[JKinAK]

OK. The long and boring off-topic text following the quote is provided with the hope that you can look at this blurb positively and as an opportunity to make a huge improvement to your property before you get into a bind. If you already have this under control, then simply ignore it. As always advice received on the internet is worth what you paid for it.

Let me clarify the access issue, or non issue. There are 8, 10 ac parcels being sold of, we're the only ones on our side of the road so far, and our access currently is the trail cut in by the well drillers. No interested parties in the parcel that we're driving on currently and the seller has no objections to us using it.

As described above, this cannot legitimately be described as a “non issue“. It’s legitimately described as a dormant issue. Unless the area ceases to have any value, at some point (maybe tomorrow or maybe a long time after you are deceased) someone will legally stop you or the future owner(s) of your parcel from crossing their property for access. The more valuable property becomes ( theirs and yours) the more imminent this action will be.

Fortunately, it sounds like you may be able to purchase an easement from the current owner(s) fairly easily. If so DO IT. You want an easement appurtenant to your property- not an easement for you. Then go to the Recorders office and record it. You’ll probably have to hire a surveyor to describe the easement in the easement document - a good boundary drawing (attached as an exhibit) is typically the clearest way to demonstrate intent. The properly prepared and recorded easement document will give you (and future owners) legally enforceable access to the property.

If you can’t get an easement now - STOP improving the property. Each improvement dollar only increases the potential easement cost by that same amount (assuming someone without a conscience wants to extract max dollars).

If you get it now, it should be fairly priced (hard to say how much but if someone is currently selling the property it will be less than that. You’ll also have the cost of preparing the docs and description/map/exhibit), if you get shut out later it could cost you as much as the value of your property and everything on it, IF the other property owner is even willing to sell you an easement! Future adjacent owners may need the property for their project or they may simply want privacy- if so you are not going to get that access.
This is simply true.

Gambling that the current and future owners of land you cross will allow you to continue to do so is foolish with this much at risk.
Think you’ll be able to get a prescriptive easement later? Look up cases where someone has tried to assert a prescriptive easement, some succeed but most don’t and it costs way more than resolving it now (prescriptive easement assertions are expensive- attorney fees, surveyors, title experts, exhibits, and court costs - you’ll pay these costs regardless of outcome).

This is a dormant issue: it’s potentially expensive and/or debilitating. A property with no access is close to worthless no matter how substantial the improvements on it are.