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Property Corners

bannerd

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Nov 14, 2011
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209
Location
Upstate NY
Anyone have a picture of how you would mark a property corner? We recently picked up land and the previous owner had posted signs on some cedar post on the corner. The owner that has land next to us put his posted sign over the previous owners sign. The post is right on the line, I assume I put my posted sign on the same post?
 
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Bluedodge

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Jun 22, 2015
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Michigan (not the Detroit part)
Did the surveyor place property markers / rods / concrete pylons on the corners?
glentannerlandsurveyingpropertycorner01.jpg


conmon_witness.jpg


concrete-survey-marker-C35D-top-200.jpg
 

Jon_E

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Aug 19, 2015
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575
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Southwestern Vermont
Are you just trying to put up posted signs, or actually mark the corners? If the former, I'd just attach signs to trees or posts on or near the line. Stay on your side of the line.

If the latter, NYS law requires a licensed Land Surveyor to set and mark property corners. The law is pretty specific and would be worth a call to a surveyor to confirm the requirements.
 
OP
B

bannerd

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Location
Upstate NY
There is a pipe where the surveyor put on my corner. In my corner the previous owner put a cedar post where the pipe is. The previous owner had a posted sign on the post but the other land owner put the posted sign over top of the previous owners posted sign that I bought land from. I finally got my posted signs back from seriouspostedsigns and I'm at a lost of how to mark it. Even thought the posted sign is on the post, his corner of land is at that corner as well. My thought was to place the posted sign on the post as well.
 

toyman

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Jan 12, 2008
Messages
33
Put a post just inside your corner and put sign on that. Then no one can cover yours. I placed 7' t-posts at my corners and covered with 1 1/2 pvc with cap. Painted cap bright orange. I also cemented in the pin the surveyor set
 

danfromsyr

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Jan 1, 2009
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Cicero, NY
I pounded in a rebar stake about 18" tall and slipped a length of grey outdoor pvc over it.. keeps the string trimmer happy and less likely to poke an eye out. and easier to see the grey pvc than the natural camouflage of the rebar in tall grasses.
 

Dick in Wisconsin

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Shawano, Wisconsin
How big is your property? how many acres?

Is it in a subdivision with lot and block legal? Or a certified survey map (CSM)? or a metes and bound description?

The three types of legal descriptions range from "not too bad" to "can cost quite a bit".
 

Jon_E

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Southwestern Vermont
Before my current job I worked for an engineering company with a surveying department. Before that job I owned an engineering and surveying company. In 25 years of experience I figured out that the best way to estimate the cost of a boundary survey is to calculate the approximate perimeter of your land (can do this at the county or town assessor's office) and figure it will cost you anywhere from $85 to $125 per hundred feet of boundary, with a minimum of around $1000. Don't forget you are not just paying for a guy to hang out on your land with a surveying instrument - you are also paying for what you don't see him doing, which is deed and map research, writing abstract of title, field reconnaissance, CAD work (drawing the map) and if he's competent, he's going to be physically speaking to each one of your neighbors to get their understanding (right or wrong) of where they believe the lines to be. I have also found that "urban" surveys, as opposed to a woodlot on the mountainside, are far more complicated, demand greater precision (by law, not only by practice) and are comparatively more expensive.

Jon (PE, not LS)
 

Evilunclegrimace

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Erie Pa
Before my current job I worked for an engineering company with a surveying department. Before that job I owned an engineering and surveying company. In 25 years of experience I figured out that the best way to estimate the cost of a boundary survey is to calculate the approximate perimeter of your land (can do this at the county or town assessor's office) and figure it will cost you anywhere from $85 to $125 per hundred feet of boundary, with a minimum of around $1000. Don't forget you are not just paying for a guy to hang out on your land with a surveying instrument - you are also paying for what you don't see him doing, which is deed and map research, writing abstract of title, field reconnaissance, CAD work (drawing the map) and if he's competent, he's going to be physically speaking to each one of your neighbors to get their understanding (right or wrong) of where they believe the lines to be. I have also found that "urban" surveys, as opposed to a woodlot on the mountainside, are far more complicated, demand greater precision (by law, not only by practice) and are comparatively more expensive.

Jon (PE, not LS)

That is a lot compared to my neck of the woods. I just had a customer request that I install a perimeter fence on her lot due to new neighbors cutting trees and shrubs on her lot. I talked her in to a lot survey to keep things civil on both sides of the proposed fence. The survey is going to cost $600.00 with a plot map , 4 corner pins and 2 POL's.
 

Pluribus

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Dec 16, 2012
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Skagit County, WA
Have you talked to the neighbor about sharing the post?

Wait, you don't sound like you're from around here. (Visualize suspicious side-eye look.)

Well, other than armed confrontation, killing their pets, banging his wife, or turning them in for...something, I suppose the OP could just try talking to them amicably.

Wait, now I sound like I'm not from around here.
 

Kaizen

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Jan 9, 2015
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New England
what is this posting signs stuff? stay off my land or i'll shoot you? seems strange. here I have a 3 foot granite 4x4 buried in the ground and a few pipes that have been there for over 100 years.
 

T_R

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Jul 2, 2015
Messages
902
Location
Maine
I have rebar in the ground at my corners.

I have a private drive sign on the road leading in and posted no hunting or trespassing signs on the sides of the road.

At the rear of the property the owners of the nature preserve that abuts my property have boundary signs posted and they flag the lines every year.

Well posted lines make for good neighbors. We never have any issues.
 

Bondo

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Dec 22, 2007
Messages
2,549
Location
Greenfield, Maine
I finally got my posted signs back from seriouspostedsigns and I'm at a lost of how to mark it. Even thought the posted sign is on the post, his corner of land is at that corner as well. My thought was to place the posted sign on the post as well.

Ayuh,..... It's a posted sign, not a property pin,...
His is coverin' the corner for both of ya,...

Just start stringin' yer's out along yer lines each way from the corner,....

If it bothers ya that much, post yer's under his on the same post,....
 
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NUTTSGT

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Northern Central Ohio
My parents have 5/8 rebar set on the corners of their property. I have seen RR spikes driven into the side of utility poles or in the center of roadways. Around here, many farmers have concrete posts set in the corners of their property. I'd guess they have been there for several decades and will be there for several more.
 

bczygan

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DETROIT! Arsenal of Scrappers
There is a pipe where the surveyor put on my corner. In my corner the previous owner put a cedar post where the pipe is. The previous owner had a posted sign on the post but the other land owner put the posted sign over top of the previous owners posted sign that I bought land from. I finally got my posted signs back from seriouspostedsigns and I'm at a lost of how to mark it. Even thought the posted sign is on the post, his corner of land is at that corner as well. My thought was to place the posted sign on the post as well.

Something like this:

56970326-close-up-of-four-hands-holding-baseball-bat-gettyimages.jpg
 

rayra

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Escaped from Los Angeles
If I'd paid for a survey I'd go pound some rebar in the ground right next to his fresh markers. All the way in, so they can be found later if a neighbor moves things. In fact a set of pictures of stakes / pins with compass bearings to major / durable terrain features would be a good idea too.

For the OP there are a lot of different and varying regs pertaining to posting your property. Best get in touch with your state or local assessor's office. And your game wardens can be of help too. There are legal standards for posting your property line related to trespassing hunters and poachers. Usually a maximum interval for posting on boundaries, as well as some dictates on one constitutes an adequate marker, paint fabric, printed sign, colors etc.
 
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James-W

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Feb 3, 2013
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Southeastern Wisconsin
We have metal stakes driven into the ground that mark the corners of the lot. I don't think wooden stakes are allowed, but I am not positive of that. At least I have not seen any wooden stakes marking lot corners, it is always a metal stake. I can't remember for sure but think there was a drawing on our deed that showed where the stakes are located. I will have to get our deed from our bank lock box and look at it.
 

fourjeepin

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Feb 12, 2011
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Atlanta, GA
Round here, the corners are marked by small concrete pillars. They stick up about 6" above grade. Maybe 3x3 square.

I had a survey done of my new place ( 3/4 acre) and had them mark several points along each leg. I drove in metal pipes next to their wood stakes as the stakes only last about a year. This is so I can find the lines later as I add more fence.

When I worked as a surveyor in college, they used metal pipe. We had a plastic yellow plastic plug that we drove in the top of the pipe. It had the surveyors name on it and a small hole to mark the exact center. We used these when setting new corners but never replaced existing markers.
 

Charles (in GA)

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50 mi south of Atlanta
Many OLD rural surveys around here give descriptions for the corner markers, such as Axle Shaft found (very common) or well pipe, drive shaft, etc, found. Newer ones you will see "IPS" which is "Iron Pin Set" (or found). Some old legal descriptions will state "from the pile of rocks, northerly 1000 ft more or less, to the blackgum tree" or something equally useless.

Originally much of the land surveyed in Georgia (but not the eastern part of the state) was surveyed into land lots of 202½ acres (which is 45 x 45 survey chains per side, a chain being 66ft) Southern part of the state the landlots were 250 acres (50 x 50 chains) and in the "Gold districts" of the NE part of the state, the landlots were 40 acres.

Corner markings for the landlots were hacked by ax into the nearest tree to the corner, using a system of notches to indicate the land lot number, district number, and which corner of the land lot it was. Surveys were done by a surveyor (who was required to post a $10,000 bond, this was the early 1800's) using a compass and chain men (who had to swear an oath to be true and accurate), the ax man, and a wagon driver. They carried hard tack, and other preserved food with them, and hoped to kill small game while in the field for meat, only to discover the Indian's had hunted the land barren of everything, even the rabbits and squirrels were gone, prior to ceding the land to the government.

Trivia, an acre is 43,560 sq ft. This is derived from a standard acre being one chain (66 ft) by ten chains (660 ft), being a rectangle in shape. One test question on my Tax Assessor/Appraiser's "Appraiser I" exam was the sq ft of an acre, I missed it because I had no way to remember a odd number. I later found out about the 1 x 10 chains or 66 x 660 ft dimension, and this is now how I remember it.

Trivia II. An acre square is 208 ft and some odd inches per side. This why the World Trade Center twin towers were each 209 ft square, each being one acre in area, more or less.

Charles
 
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Charles (in GA)

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50 mi south of Atlanta
Map of Georgia and Alabama, 1823, the gray area in the middle is the remaining Indian lands.

State of Georgia, showing the several different Indian Cessions, and land districts and original counties, overlay-ed on a 1895 county map. Each land cession was surveyed out, then a lottery was held to draw the names of winners of the land lots.

A surveyor working in the land lottery areas of Georgia must be very familiar with the Original counties and their boundaries, land districts, etc, as it may be necessary to go to two or more court houses to research the deeds, the land having been in one original county, and another county was created from the original, and many times another created form pieces and corners of several counties. Its very twisted and convoluted and a good surveyor is as much a historian as he is a surveyor.
 
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FordTruckWench

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Jan 8, 2015
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California
Trivia, an acre is 43,560 sq ft. This is derived from a standard acre being one chain (66 ft) by ten chains (660 ft), being a rectangle in shape. One test question on my Tax Assessor/Appraiser's "Appraiser I" exam was the sq ft of an acre, I missed it because I had no way to remember a odd number. I later found out about the 1 x 10 chains or 66 x 660 ft dimension, and this is now how I remember it.

The rare times I need the square footage of an acre I enter this into a calculator: 5280 * 5280 / 640. This calculates the square footage of a square mile and then divides by the number of acres in a square mile. Growing up in an area divided into one mile squares and their fractions, I learned the acreage of the common divisions, e.g. a quarter mile by quarter mile is 40 acres.
 

Dick in Wisconsin

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Shawano, Wisconsin
The rare times I need the square footage of an acre I enter this into a calculator: 5280 * 5280 / 640. This calculates the square footage of a square mile and then divides by the number of acres in a square mile. Growing up in an area divided into one mile squares and their fractions, I learned the acreage of the common divisions, e.g. a quarter mile by quarter mile is 40 acres.

Why is simply remembering 43,560 so hard? As well as the rest of the important numbers ...

5280
1320
640
36
 

mrpizza

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IL
My property has rebar driven in the corners with colored plastic caps that have the survey company information on top of the cap. They also drove in some wood stakes that you can see that say "CORNER" on them. I went out last weekend and drove in 6 foot t stakes and put posted signs on all four corners. Next weekend I am doing the in-between sides. Neighbor says he saw some people out there this last deer weekend with climbing stands. I'll get em.
 

theoldwizard1

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Feb 22, 2011
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SE MI
If I'd paid for a survey I'd go pound some rebar in the ground right next to his fresh markers.

Neither rebar or stakes (wood or metal) are considered "official" (will hold up in a court of law). Only surveyor "pins" (or I think they used to call them "monuments") are official and they need to be registered with the city/county on the deed. This is why they charge EXTRA for them !!
 

myredracer

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Langley, BC
If you want a legal survey that will be registered and will hold up in court, you have to pay more to get that done. You can also get a surveyor in and not have the corners put on a plan and registered and will save a lot of $$. Providing you get a good surveyor to do that and a neighbor wants to challenge something, you should not have any worries. We had a surveyor do our acreage and not prepare a plan or register anything as we were just installing a new fence around the entire property.

If you can't drive a pin where it needs to go, they can put in one or two "witness" pins. These are set say a foot or two away from the desired location and marked on a plan as to direction and distance to the actual corner location.

A survey monument is something they typically put in a public road surface maybe a 1/4 or 1/2 mile (?) or so apart as a reference point for any surveyor to come along and accurately determine property lines up and down a street. Iron pipes, rebar, wooden stakes, etc. aren't legal these days and "iron pins" are used. It is illegal to tamper with them.
 
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Jim_No_Garage

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Jan 15, 2011
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Millington NJ
After about 6 or 7 years at our house I couldn't find the south east corner marker. The back line of my property is about 10 feet into the underbrush in the woods. I pulled out my survey and tried to find it using the south west corner and a marked measurement off the house. There were too many trees in the way to get a line of sight.

I then asked my neighbor who asked me what I was doing (who we were friendly with) if they had their survey because they have a garage near that corner and I was hoping for a marked measurement off their garage and the one off my house to get a better line. You would have thought I asked to bang his wife!

I eventually found the pin an hammered in a 36" piece on 1/2 EMT near it so I can see it sticking up from the yard. I periodically put pink surveyor tape on the top after the old tape rots and blows away.

Cheers

Jim
 

Cardboard Man

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Aug 30, 2008
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NJ
If the neighbor already has "posted" sign there, why do you need another one on the same post saying the same thing? Let his cover that corner and put yours in other places that need one.
 

INSP380

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Dec 17, 2012
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Cleveland, Ohio
After I built my house,and had the lawn in, I hammered all the rebar pins into the ground. Then I Fabricated some "cover pins" out of 3/4 id 304 pipe with 3" round 1/4 thk top. On the top plate I scribed (with our CNC plasma) my lot number and address. This was then polished and set in the ground right over my surveyed pins. I edge arond them and they look like sprinkler heads. I keep my lot "blueprint/ drawing" framed and hanging on my garage wall. Easy to referance and crystal clear as to were my yard ends and my neighbors begins. I still have the official yellow caps put away and like new. I don't plan on spending money on a survey ever again.

Steve
 

yossarian19

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Jan 2, 2015
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People's Republik of Kalifornia
That is a lot compared to my neck of the woods. I just had a customer request that I install a perimeter fence on her lot due to new neighbors cutting trees and shrubs on her lot. I talked her in to a lot survey to keep things civil on both sides of the proposed fence. The survey is going to cost $600.00 with a plot map , 4 corner pins and 2 POL's.

In CA, we do a corner search on a typical 1/4 acre subdivision lot for $400. A Record of Survey map usually runs $2,500+, topo up to two acres is around $1200. My, what a difference 2,000 miles will make.

Also, FWIW, we *do* use iron pipe, rebar & rail spikes over here. You are required to put a cap or plug (as appropriate) on the monument, though, with your license number on it. Rail spikes are supposed to be stamped with your license number though nobody does it. You can also epoxy a brass tag down, tag being stamped with your license number. We get a fair number of mining drills and axles found on old lots, too, with a few "x" marks chiseled into boulders for good measure.
 
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rayra

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Escaped from Los Angeles
Neither rebar or stakes (wood or metal) are considered "official" (will hold up in a court of law). Only surveyor "pins" (or I think they used to call them "monuments") are official and they need to be registered with the city/county on the deed. This is why they charge EXTRA for them !!

I don't care about 'offical'. I just want to be able to figure out when something's been screwed with. 'Official' comes later. I'd be driving my own steel for hidden redundancy.
 

HotwheelsYJ

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Oct 28, 2009
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81
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Cleveland TN
All corners of our farm (76 acres, irregular shape) are marked with "official" surveyors pins with the plastic cap.
We then took old rear axle Shafts, cut a pie shape out of the flange & drove them just inside the pins with the cutout lined up with the pin.

It's much easier to find a 7" flange than a little pin.
 
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