so,I come home from work today to find out my property along with the other properties in my immedialte vicinity have been surveyed.I bought this house and property 4 years ago from a family that sub didvided an acre of it along with a house.Well it appears that when it was originally divided the surveyor at that time messed up on my rear property line.Sooooo,to make a long story short the new property pins have been installed 35' behind my rear fence/property line...my property is 250' wide so that is Alot in my mind and in this area!....but before I get to excited I am going to go to the county,reason-being I looked at my property/tax paperwork and it shows SOME properties in the area are based off the center of the road for the front line?and some are based off a 5'easement back off the road.It looks to me that the sub-divided properties are based off the side of the road...i hope it works out for me...lets see..250 x 35' = large addition to shop...Rich!
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property lines
- Thread starter rich1956
- Start date
customperformance
Well-known member
Where I am at the property lines go off locating pins in the center of the front and side roads. Side road is 66' wide and my property line starts at the 33' from center and the other one is 88' and 44' from center. SOme places like my old town they went off the road center but your property lines were 1 foot off that. If the road was say 80' wide figure 40' from center + or - is where your property line should start unless it was setup differently.
mpraddict
Well-known member
In my experience, if it's a public street, there is a right of way for that street. The right of way is the total width of the area allowed for the street and any public utilities, street improvements, etc. So if the street had a 60' right of way, you'd measure 30' in from the centerline and that's were your property line starts. If the street was never dedicated to the city or county, things may be different.
Jay H 237
Well-known member
There's also the possibility the new surveyor is off with the measurements also. If stakes or marks have been removed, moved, or destroyed then that could throw things off although it's normally only a few feet and not 35!
I don't know how they do the property lines where I am. I do have a granite marker in my lawn. I do know a few of them have been moved and also buried in my area as we have a utility easement 10' from the road. At times when utility work has been done the granite markers have been dug up and not neccesarily put back in the original location, if put back at all. In this case if a property needed to be surveyed the surveyor would have to start from several properties away to re-estabilish a reference and work thier way to the property being surveyed.
I don't know how they do the property lines where I am. I do have a granite marker in my lawn. I do know a few of them have been moved and also buried in my area as we have a utility easement 10' from the road. At times when utility work has been done the granite markers have been dug up and not neccesarily put back in the original location, if put back at all. In this case if a property needed to be surveyed the surveyor would have to start from several properties away to re-estabilish a reference and work thier way to the property being surveyed.
My only experience is in Illinois.
It seems that here the real rual, ag, farm, surveys go from the middle of the road. And the farmer pays taxs on his side of the roadway, ditch and all.
Once you are into a subdvided area, with the roads deeded to the city, township, or what ever. then you have to go from surveyed front lot corners. This can get real silly. In Chicago, for instance, the city owns the strip of grass and the sidewalk in front of your house. And they are responsible for the trees that grow there. Therefore the city has a Forestry Deepartment. But you can get a ticket if you don't mow the grass that grows between the sidwalk and the curb.
In the end; find out who did the survey, why they did it, and what are the legal consequences.
Sometimes there are percentage of square footage limitations on what you can build. I know some townships around me will not let you build an "out building" with more square footage then the house.
This is a good reason to get a building permit. They should come out and look over what you want to do and give you the OK in writing. Once you have that pice of paper, you are good to go. The load is on them now.
It seems that here the real rual, ag, farm, surveys go from the middle of the road. And the farmer pays taxs on his side of the roadway, ditch and all.
Once you are into a subdvided area, with the roads deeded to the city, township, or what ever. then you have to go from surveyed front lot corners. This can get real silly. In Chicago, for instance, the city owns the strip of grass and the sidewalk in front of your house. And they are responsible for the trees that grow there. Therefore the city has a Forestry Deepartment. But you can get a ticket if you don't mow the grass that grows between the sidwalk and the curb.
In the end; find out who did the survey, why they did it, and what are the legal consequences.
Sometimes there are percentage of square footage limitations on what you can build. I know some townships around me will not let you build an "out building" with more square footage then the house.
This is a good reason to get a building permit. They should come out and look over what you want to do and give you the OK in writing. Once you have that pice of paper, you are good to go. The load is on them now.
Definitely have to go to the county recorder's office and look at the plat maps. There may be a dedicated street with your property starting at the edge of the street or the property splits in the center of the street, and the street exists on an easement granted by all property owners along the street.
Junkman
Well-known member
The first thing to do is to get out your deed and see what it says. Then, if you have a mortgage, usually the mortgage company insists on a site survey to show boundaries and the location of the home on the property. This also should be with your purchase papers. Were you represented by an attorney when you made the purchase? If you were, I would consult with him before going any further. No need to go to the town hall, because this is a civil matter and they won't get involved. All you will do it bring the problem to the surface and it might get any future building permits denied, until the problem is resolved. When you purchased the home, did you purchase title insurance? If you did, then the title company will also have a stake in making sure that what you purchased is what you got. One problem that does arise often, is the real estate broker says the line goes to point X, as represented by the seller. Problem is that neither the seller or the agent really know if this is true. If you were not represented by an attorney, don't have title insurance, and the property has never been surveyed specifically for you, then save you money and go directly to a licensed surveyor with your deed and get the property surveyed. Once you pay for the survey, and are satisfied that the lines are correct, then we can discuss the problem further. Until then, you are just guessing. If this rear property line effects your neighbors also, possibly you might get the neighbor on the right and left to also have there property surveyed by the same person that you use. This will help to keep the cost down for everyone. Also, once you have the survey in hand, take a copy with the raised seal to the town or county where deeds are registered, and have the survey filed. It cost about $10 usually to file a survey, and this puts all adjoining properer owners on record that what the survey claims is yours, you claim as yours. If it varies from the original deed description, then you are going to need an attorney to join in to help resolve the issue. Just keep your cool and remember, that this isn't going to be resolved for possibly 6 months to a year. No matter what, in the end, you will need a legal survey, so you might as well start there and not waste money in any other direction until you know all the facts. I just hope that you don't have a deed that reads "from the big oak tree, to the stone pile, to the snow pile, and back to the beginning." Those type of deeds are the ones that cause the most problems. Since you said that it is part of a Sub Division, this should make it easier to establish the boundaries. Where the street is, can't be changed, but the rear lot line is the important issue here.
snorvet
Well-known member
I'm a surveyor, and I see your problem frequently. It boils down to the deed legal description of the properties and how the legal descriptions are interpreted. In your case the deeds could be ambiguous as to whether the properties in your area extend to the center of the road or to the right of way line of the road. Different surveyors come up with different lines based on their interpretation of the deeds. Subdivided lots next to unsubdivided parcels sometimes complicates the matter.
Yes - subdivided properties are generally based off the road right of way line, not the road centerline. This is due to the county/city requirement to formally dedicate the road right of way. A subdivision plat passes title to the road rights of way to the governing authority.
I agree with the guys above - you'll have to do a little research to reason this out. If possible, contact the surveyor that recently surveyed your neighbors property, and also the surveyor that surveyed your property, and explain the 35' problem to them. Maybe they can resolve the issue to your satisfaction.
If this cant be done, or there is no resolution, you could hire a surveyor to review the situation and provide an answer to what is going on, and to establish where the correct location of your rear property line is. You may be able to recoup the cost of this survey from your previous owner if the previous survey is incorrect.
Or you could try to figure it out yourself: You'll need the following:
1. deeds for your property and neighbors
2. drawing from the survey when you bought the property (if any)
3. copies of recorded subdivision plats for your property and/or neighbors
4. tax maps for your property and/or neighbors
This info can be obtained at the county recorder and tax offices. However, it may be difficult for a layman to figure out the problem if you choose to go this route. I would definately contact the two surveyors first.
Also, dont rip down your fence and add 35' to your shop without getting a firm commitment that the 35' strip is yours. If you think the strip is yours, get a surveyor and/or real estate attorney to verify the boundary before building on the property.
Good Luck
Yes - subdivided properties are generally based off the road right of way line, not the road centerline. This is due to the county/city requirement to formally dedicate the road right of way. A subdivision plat passes title to the road rights of way to the governing authority.
I agree with the guys above - you'll have to do a little research to reason this out. If possible, contact the surveyor that recently surveyed your neighbors property, and also the surveyor that surveyed your property, and explain the 35' problem to them. Maybe they can resolve the issue to your satisfaction.
If this cant be done, or there is no resolution, you could hire a surveyor to review the situation and provide an answer to what is going on, and to establish where the correct location of your rear property line is. You may be able to recoup the cost of this survey from your previous owner if the previous survey is incorrect.
Or you could try to figure it out yourself: You'll need the following:
1. deeds for your property and neighbors
2. drawing from the survey when you bought the property (if any)
3. copies of recorded subdivision plats for your property and/or neighbors
4. tax maps for your property and/or neighbors
This info can be obtained at the county recorder and tax offices. However, it may be difficult for a layman to figure out the problem if you choose to go this route. I would definately contact the two surveyors first.
Also, dont rip down your fence and add 35' to your shop without getting a firm commitment that the 35' strip is yours. If you think the strip is yours, get a surveyor and/or real estate attorney to verify the boundary before building on the property.
Good Luck
CraigFL
Well-known member
One more piece of information.... I have a survey problem in that two surveyors don't agree on interpretations of legal descriptions. This causes a descrepancy in my south boundary line of about 4 feet. In one case, I own 2 feet of a neighboring building, in the other I do not. They tell me a judge is the only person that can sort this out. I choose to not spend the money to find out and leave things the way they are...
wrigh003
Well-known member
This is an interesting thread- we're having some thoughts about this as well. We live in a older wooded subdivision, and there's a ditch/streambed between my neighbor's property and mine that would make a reasonable/logical place for the property line to be. I have the tax map and a plat map of the subdivision that shows the line measurements, but can't for the life of me find any markers, stakes, etc., so I'm not sure. ***** that I'll have to pay a surveyor to come out just to say "here's what you own," but I want to make sure that whatever I build (fences, garage, etc.) is on my property.
HoosierBuddy
Well-known member
I ran into a situation a couple of years ago where I had a piece of property surveyed. The new surveyor with all of his GPS tools and devices completly disagreed with 30-year old surveys of the area done with more traditional instruments, that had come from a suspect reference point.
Anyway..long story short...he says the 20' wide city street is located at the far edge of the city's 50' easement, not it's center...AND that anyone that had built near where they thought that edge of the property line was....was actually in the street right of way.
Huh.
Nothing has changed as a result.
I had to pay for this survey because the idiot neighbor built a fence on our property. He had to move it, which cost him maybe $50 in sackcrete. The surveyor charged me about $1000.
Phil
Anyway..long story short...he says the 20' wide city street is located at the far edge of the city's 50' easement, not it's center...AND that anyone that had built near where they thought that edge of the property line was....was actually in the street right of way.
Huh.
Nothing has changed as a result.
I had to pay for this survey because the idiot neighbor built a fence on our property. He had to move it, which cost him maybe $50 in sackcrete. The surveyor charged me about $1000.
Phil
If you are looking for marker stakes, I have heard that a metal detector is a good tool.
I have never had to do it myself, but the custom seems to be to put the stake "below plow level". In other words the top of the 1 inch pipe is 18 inchs below the surface.
If I understood the orginal question correctly, the whole area was re-surveyed? Not just one lot? That is a big project. And that probily means it was goverment sponsered.
I would say your first step is to find out who paid for the re-survey, and why. If it was the township or countey for tax purposes, their maps usualy become the legal description and any future deeds will show their new boundrys.
35 feet is a lot of boundry change, even in a rural area when you are dealing with 1000's of acres.
But, again, somebody paid to have this done.
Your first question is who and why.
I have never had to do it myself, but the custom seems to be to put the stake "below plow level". In other words the top of the 1 inch pipe is 18 inchs below the surface.
If I understood the orginal question correctly, the whole area was re-surveyed? Not just one lot? That is a big project. And that probily means it was goverment sponsered.
I would say your first step is to find out who paid for the re-survey, and why. If it was the township or countey for tax purposes, their maps usualy become the legal description and any future deeds will show their new boundrys.
35 feet is a lot of boundry change, even in a rural area when you are dealing with 1000's of acres.
But, again, somebody paid to have this done.
Your first question is who and why.
By the way, this is happening a lot around the country.
With GPS, the accuracy of a survey is much better. Instead of, or in addition to, angles and distances, they will mark lot corners with LAT and LONG numbers good to within 6 inchs.
That gets rid of the lost or moved marker problem.
My understanding is that in Tenn. the TVA is re-surveying all their power line easments this way.
With GPS, the accuracy of a survey is much better. Instead of, or in addition to, angles and distances, they will mark lot corners with LAT and LONG numbers good to within 6 inchs.
That gets rid of the lost or moved marker problem.
My understanding is that in Tenn. the TVA is re-surveying all their power line easments this way.