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Property Tax Complaint

Charles (in GA)

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Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
12,489
Location
50 mi south of Atlanta
Sadly, much of what I see written in this thread is just way wrong. Somehow, many of you equate property taxes with free cell phones, section 8 housing subsidies, food and energy assistance and the like.

Most don't really understand what LOCAL taxes, such as property taxes are used to pay for. They don't go to the state (possibly a little, but not much usually) and they certainly don't go to the Feds. Your property taxes go to support the budget of your local county, municipality, township, etc. It goes for (up north) snow plowing and local road salting, it pays for police departments, sewer and water departments, fire departments, possibly operating a senior center, and the basic expenses of running a local government, paying building leases, power bills, gasoline in vehicles, insurance, and one of the largest expenses in any operation, public or private, the payroll.

The process of appeals (or whatever a particular state calls them) vary from one state to another, but generally the procedures are set by state law, and local governments cannot deviate from them.

In Georgia, tomorrow marks the first day to file a return of your property to your county Assessors. You are required by law to file this return. Should you fail to do so, it will be assumed that you are "filing" the return at the same value as last year. There are exceptions, if you purchased a property last year, or added on to your house or built a garage, you must file the return, that is the law, though it is often ignored. Values are based on the condition of a property on January 1. If you built a garage on Dec 31, you owe for this year. If you have a house half finished on Jan 1, then you will probably be assessed on whatever it is worth at this point in the construction.

Several comments were made about "the description being put in the computer and this is what came out" which is, part of the Mass Appraisal process. It differs from Fee Apprasial, such as what you had done when you bought your house. Generally, tables of construction costs, adjusted for local areas, are produced by Marshall & Swift, and many assessors/appraisers offices use these tables of construction cost to determine the value.

Essentially, the appraiser measures and "writes up" all of the structures on the property, and houses and attached garages are entered into the computer and M&S tells us what it costs to build that house. Data such as type of exterior, square footage, foundation type (crawlspace or slab, or basement), number of rooms, bathrooms, plumbing fixtures, fireplaces, etc are all entered. The house is given a ranking as to quality of construction, such as a house with many complicated wall and roof "cuts" rates a lot higher than a simple rectangular box, and the house is also given a grade on its condition, which combined with age, depreciates the value off of its new construction costs. An older house, with a complete renovation, will have its age reset, giving it an "effective age" that is newer than it actually is, and all of this information, plus information such as whether it is located on a paved or dirt road, has a well, septic, etc causes the computer to establish a value.

There are many good reasons why your place may be an exception to this standardized process, and in those cases, properly presented information will sway the appraiser to adjust the values. Many times this can be done informally by simply going in and sitting down and talking with them about the property. Sometimes an appeal will be needed, but you must provide some concrete reasons why your value is wrong, or you will be peeing upwind.

We had a case year before last, a woman appealed her value, it came to the Board of Assessors and was sent back to her with no change in value, so she appealed it to the Board of Equalization (who hears appeals after the BOA). She presented a recent appraisal which she had paid to have done, but apparently did not look at, because when the BOE opened it and looked, it was for a HIGHER value than the value that the appraisers had placed on the property in the beginning. Needless to say, they suggested she take her appraisal and drop the appeal, or they might just adjust the value upward.

Its all about value.

Georgia Boards of Assessors are county wide. Thus there are 159 BOA's in Georgia, and they provide the tax digest to every taxing authority in the county, such as municipalities, school districts, fire districts, water authorities, who all levy their taxes independently of each other.

Here is a list of EVERY taxing jurisdiction in Georgia and its millage rate levy for 2012. Last time I counted, there were 68 incorporated municipalities that DID NOT levy any taxes. The owners in those areas would, however have to pay county taxes, which vary from county to county, and even within the county, but they would not be paying city taxes on top of that. Many of these cities "make their money" by operating and charging for sewer and water, garbage, power, cable TV, etc, at rates that make enough money to pay for all other government services.

In Georgia, Jan 1 to April 1 is the time to file returns for real property (buildings and land) and also returns for personal property (airplanes, boats, non-farm motorized equipment, and other items of value other than standard household furniture, clothes, appliances, etc, which are not taxed)

Jan 1 to April 1 is also time to file for a homestead exemption if you do not already have one, or if your age warrants the additional exemptions or if you are a 100% service connected disabled veteran.

Charles
 
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jrsulo

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Feb 23, 2010
Messages
746
Location
New Jersey
Sadly, much of what I see written in this thread is just way wrong. Somehow, many of you equate property taxes with free cell phones, section 8 housing subsidies, food and energy assistance and the like.

Most don't really understand what LOCAL taxes, such as property taxes are used to pay for. They don't go to the state (possibly a little, but not much usually) and they certainly don't go to the Feds. Your property taxes go to support the budget of your local county, municipality, township, etc. It goes for (up north) snow plowing and local road salting, it pays for police departments, sewer and water departments, fire departments, possibly operating a senior center, and the basic expenses of running a local government, paying building leases, power bills, gasoline in vehicles, insurance, and one of the largest expenses in any operation, public or private, the payroll.

The process of appeals (or whatever a particular state calls them) vary from one state to another, but generally the procedures are set by state law, and local governments cannot deviate from them.

In Georgia, tomorrow marks the first day to file a return of your property to your county Assessors. You are required by law to file this return. Should you fail to do so, it will be assumed that you are "filing" are return at the same value as last year. There are exceptions, if you purchased a property last year, or added on to your house or built a garage, you must file the return, that is the law, though it is often ignored. Values are based on the condition of a property on January 1. If you built a garage on Dec 31, you owe for this year. If you have a house half finished on Jan 1, then you will probably be assessed on whatever it is worth at this point in the construction.

Several comments were made about "the description being put in the computer and this is what came out" which is, part of the Mass Appraisal process. It differs from Fee Apprasial, such as what you had done when you bought your house. Generally, tables of construction costs, adjusted for local areas, are produced by Marshall and Swift, and many assessors/appraisers offices use these tables of construction cost to determine the value.

Essentially, the appraiser measures and "writes up" all of the structures on the property, and houses and attached garages are entered into the computer and M&S tells us what it costs to build that house. Data such as type of exterior, square footage, foundation type (crawlspace or slab, or basement), number of rooms, bathrooms, plumbing fixtures, fireplaces, etc are all entered. The house is given a ranking as to quality of construction, such as a house with many complicated wall and roof "cuts" rates a lot higher than a simple rectangular box, and the house is also given a grade on its condition, which combined with age, depreciates the value off of its new construction costs. An older house, with a complete renovation, will have its age reset, giving it an "effective age" that is newer than it actually is, and all of this information, plus information such as whether it is located on a paved or dirt road, has a well, septic, etc causes the computer to establish a value.

There are many good reasons why your place may be an exception to this standardized process, and in those cases, properly presented information will sway the appraiser to adjust the values. Many times this can be done informally by simply going in and sitting down and talking with them about the property. Sometimes an appeal will be needed, but you must provide some concrete reasons why your value is wrong, or you will be peeing upwind.

We had a case year before last, a woman appealed her value, it came to the Board of Assessors and was sent back to her with no change in value, so she appealed it to the Board of Equalization (who hears appeals after the BOA). She presented a recent appraisal which she had paid to have done, but apparently did not look at, because when the BOE opened it and looked, it was for a HIGHER value than the value that the appraisers had placed on the property in the beginning. Needless to say, they suggested she take her appraisal and drop the appeal, or they might just adjust the value upward.

Its all about value.

In Georgia, Jan 1 to April 1 is the time to file returns for real property (buildings and land) and also returns for personal property (airplanes, boats, non-farm motorized equipment, and other items of value other than standard household furniture, clothes, appliances, etc, )which are not taxed)

Jan 1 to April 1 is also time to file for a homestead exemption if you do not already have on, or if your age warrants the additional exemptions or if you are a 100% service connected disabled veteran.

Charles

If thats the case i should be pissed off !!!!!!....Our police station combined with another...cut almost everything there is to cut....and my taxes are still almost 10 grand a year !!!!.....and for what ????.....everything is outsourced and is a ****** little town !!!!!!
 

Dick in Wisconsin

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Mar 3, 2012
Messages
3,048
Location
Shawano, Wisconsin
You can't win the battle of rising taxes.

Its difficult, but not impossible. Another poster identified what local property taxes go to ... police, fire, road and street maintenance, schools, etc.

By electing fiscally conservative representatives to town, village, county, city, and school boards who question EVERY expenditure and EVERY new building and EVERY new truck and EVERY new hire (and a few replacement hires) ... we can make a difference in our taxes.

Municipalities need to have smart people in the elected positions and smart people running the municipalities. They need to make good decisions that result in the lowest cost of operation of the municipality.

That is the only way we will ever get our taxes under control.

BTW ... if you think that getting shared revenue from the state and federal governments will help ... you're crazy. Shared revenue to local units of government is the crack cocaine of politics.
 

dumper

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Oct 22, 2006
Messages
673
Location
Oregon
That's what I wondering, $12k/year in property taxes in Califailure would be a $3M house

actually, if you are willing to pay only $12k/yr prop taxes in California, you would be limiting yourself to a house with a purchase price just over a mil... which is rather ordinary in most of the "somewhat above average," for Cali, neighborhoods. Glad I left.
 
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yeldogt

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Jan 2, 2012
Messages
18,184
In NJ it is based on sale prices prior to OCT 1st of the previous tax year -- you get the new assessment card sometime in February.

So you need to find comparable properties that sold for less than your current assessment. I just did this with a NJ property -- normally they ask for five. You file the paperwork with the county and then your local town assessor will contact you with his decision -- if you can make a deal ... then it is finished --- otherwise you go to tax court at the county.

I was able to get a reduction of about $1200.00 per year.

Having a tax bill of 12k in NJ is not unusual -- a very typical house will easily be 7k
 

White 99

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Jul 5, 2009
Messages
285
Location
Northern CA
Back to the OP's question:

If you had the garage built you could use the contract price to compare to what was assesed. As was noted above the actual value still could be lower than a new garage as it may not be what a buyer would pay for the garage. Anyway find out what they appraised the garage at so you know what to compare it to. I have found they usually are below what I feel it is worth.
 

Charles (in GA)

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Messages
12,489
Location
50 mi south of Atlanta
BTW ... if you think that getting shared revenue from the state and federal governments will help ... you're crazy. Shared revenue to local units of government is the crack cocaine of politics.

In Georgia, the school systems learned the hard way. The state cut off funding to local school systems, and suddenly they didn't have enough to operate on. Problem with school systems, and many other facets of government is the rules from above that have to be complied with, cost lots of money to comply with, and are not funded........ Unfunded mandates, and the Feds are great about doing that, and so are the states.

Most small governments have already slashed budgets to the core. I have taxpayers tell me that they KNOW that the county is wasting money, just throwing it away. I ask how? (true story) I get some stupid reply about how they see some Sheriffs deputy riding about in a Tahoe, and its a huge waste of gas, yada yada they need a blazer or something "more economical" and after I tell them that the vehicle was a confiscated drug dealer vehicle impressed into service and didn't cost the county anything, they slink off and won't admit that they simply don't know what they are talking about.

Charles
 

Daedalus

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Sep 28, 2009
Messages
5,994
actually, if you are willing to pay only $12k/yr prop taxes in California, you would be limiting yourself to a house with a purchase price just over a mil... which is rather ordinary in most of the "somewhat above average," for Cali, neighborhoods. Glad I left.

Yeah, taxes reset to just over 1% of purchase price when homes are bought. But at least they stay low (for now) thereafter due to Prop 13. I have older coworkers that pay much less in taxes than I do for nicer homes than mine. A million still gets you a pretty nice pad in most parts.
 

Modifieddriver

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May 29, 2009
Messages
820
Location
Moonville, South Carolina
"Sadly, much of what I see written in this thread is just way wrong. Somehow, many of you equate property taxes with free cell phones, section 8 housing subsidies, food and energy assistance and the like.

Most don't really understand what LOCAL taxes, such as property taxes are used to pay for. They don't go to the state (possibly a little, but not much usually) and they certainly don't go to the Feds. Your property taxes go to support the budget of your local county, municipality, township, etc. It goes for (up north) snow plowing and local road salting, it pays for police departments, sewer and water departments, fire departments, possibly operating a senior center, and the basic expenses of running a local government, paying building leases, power bills, gasoline in vehicles, insurance, and one of the largest expenses in any operation, public or private, the payroll."



Whoa, Charles in GA, just a minute there.

You think you're talking to a bunch of complete morons here (primarily pointing the finger at myself)! I was talking about taxes in general, and if you don't think you're already paying your fair share, go right on down to the local court house, state tax commission office and IRS to pay some more.

I know exactly where my property taxes go and what percentage goes to each service as listed on my tax bill.

The problem with taxation is that the tax payer sees so much waste that they only realize a fractional return on their investment. Even for the small amount I pay, do I receive a proportional return in county government services? Not hardly.

I've lived on my road since 1981. It's a county road that's been repaired but never repaved. I get county police protection. I've seen a cop on this road less than a dozen times in over 30 years. Three of those were SC STATE Highway Patrol, not county, because of accident investigations for joy riding kids from the High School that's a mile away. They have a tough time navigating a curve in the road. I have no sewer. I have no county water. I do have fire protection and the full time employees. We have no snow plows coming down my road (usually never snows here). There are no parks for recreation within five miles of my house, but that's included in my tax bill. Where I take my trash is staffed by no more than two county employees.

School taxes are primarily paid for by a 1% added state sales tax fee and a tax on industry. That was a change about 3 years ago which removed school tax off my property tax bill. One of the smarter ways to tax for public education.

Now your spending waste example about an SUV is pretty weak. The person complaining was a bigger ***** then me. We all know it costs money to run government. But at sometime you have to review how to reduce spending. And it isn't by purchasing a fleet of Chevy Volts to save fuel.

What kind of local government is there that requires the man in New Jersey to be taxed $12K? They paving his street with gold? Is he subsidizing the Jets Football Stadium? Are the local schools like a high dollar college campus?

It's always easy to spend someone else's $dough$. That's what politicians are paid to do. Unfortunately they don't do a very good job of it. The fiscal cliff is a case in point.

So, please don't accuse me of making a wrong comparison or not being knowledgeable about how government works and who pays for what. The reason I get on a soap box about this subject is because I'm all together too educated on such things.
 
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ddawg16

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Jul 11, 2008
Messages
21,005
Location
S. California
Reading all this makes California look a lot better.

When I finished my garage a couple of years ago, we got an appraisal for about $120K more. After the shock....we called the appraisal office....talked to the guy.....it appears that when the appraiser came out, we were not home....he looked in, saw the spiral staircase...windows on the second floor....assumed we had a rec room up there. So....500 sq ft garage with a 540 sq ft rec room above....

After we explained that the second floor was only an attic for storage, he agreeded to send his guy back out. A couple of days later he came by....walked half way up my spiral staircase.....commented "Yep, storage. That is not a rec room".

So...final appraisal, $28K....and we got $8k credit for the old garage.

Overall, when I add up both my total property taxes AND state income, I'm paying less than a friend of mine in Texas pays in just property taxes....2000 sq ft house on 2 acres.....current value about 2/3 of my house.
 

Modifieddriver

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Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
820
Location
Moonville, South Carolina
Back to the OP's question:

If you had the garage built you could use the contract price to compare to what was assesed. As was noted above the actual value still could be lower than a new garage as it may not be what a buyer would pay for the garage. Anyway find out what they appraised the garage at so you know what to compare it to. I have found they usually are below what I feel it is worth.

I pretty much agree.

In most cases the amount of money spent on building a garage will never be recovered in the property resale price to the next owner. Therefore the appraised value of the building should not be proportional to the cost of construction.

I can only think of swimming pools or outside cooking centers being a worse return on the investment.

Improvements inside the house are a different story. Here, a county appraiser has never set foot inside my door ways.
 

WQ59B

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Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Messages
762
Location
NJ
When my house & 24x48 was built & the new assessment came in, I simply went down to the tax assessor office and stated I thought the bill was too high. TA said, 'I could devalue your garage to 75%...", and I said OK. I believe it saved me about $300/yr.

Taxes here in Jersey are horrific. EX- there was a nice park 1.5 miles from me; lil nursery school building, stream, playground, 'snack shack', soccer fields. Someone spending someone else's money got the idea that we needed a football field for the kids. You know; they ripped up a few soccer fields, staked out the FB field, then dug out the dirt to a depth of 8-feet deep, then filled that whole space with clean stone. If the field is regulation (not positive), that's 50,000 yards of stone.
 

Ch3No2

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Nov 27, 2009
Messages
356
I got 'around' the high reassessment because my detached shop is considered a barn and not subjected to the higher rates.

I am on Ag 1 land and when I went to pull permits they told me to call it a barn...so I did...it finaled May of 12 and so far so good..no property tax raise
 

Charles (in GA)

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Jan 11, 2006
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12,489
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50 mi south of Atlanta
I fully agree that taxes, most especially in the north, are way too high. Why, because of local governments pretending to be big governments and spending money on things they shouldn't, government employees who are way overpaid, and typical bad management. I certainly don't think anyone needs to pay more than their fair share, but the issues I have, I haven't even mentioned, and thats with exemptions and special assessments that reduce the taxes for some property owners, while others have to pay more than their fair share to make up difference. Fact is, even if a government is operated lean and clean of waste, graft and all the other bad things, it costs a certain amount to run it, and when you have these special treatments for some, the others have to pay for it.

You would be surprised how many people will vote for a special tax assessment (read cheap taxes) for something (such as a couple of years ago here in GA for the Forest Land Preservation Act). The FLPA is basically a huge tax break for the large corporations who own thousands of acres of timber land, that when grown, will be harvested (read that as clear cut) and sold for lumber, power poles, etc.

Never, ever, vote for any tax break or freeze for some special group, because you will pay more because of it.

One of the worst things to happen are the tax breaks given to corporations to locate manufacturing plants, warehouses, etc in an area. Usually it is some sort of 10 year break, where the company pays no taxes the first year, then it steps up each year after till at the end of ten years its full taxes. What usually happens is the company then closes the facility and moves somewhere else and starts all over. Heard a story on Public Radio the other day about this. Studies have shown that the economic benefit to a city, county or state is no where close to the tax breaks given, its just a free ride for the corporations involved, but it has become the norm and the thinking in government is that you won't get anyone to locate there unless you give the breaks. Other issues are that the companies usually promise the moon, like hiring 300 employees to work in the warehouse, when all is said and done, it is 150. They fudge the numbers to get the tax breaks and state provided "training" for their employees, shoot the states will even have their state labor department do the screening of employees and basically hire them for the company, saving them the hassle of that too.

Charles
 

toyville

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Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Messages
22
This topic gets my goat like no other. The last home we lived in the city was a story and a half mid 50's home in an older neighbourhood. where the older smaller homes were quickly being replaced by new much much bigger homes. I spent 2 years renovating the enire home pulling permits for everything including Building a 26x26 garage.

A year after we had finished working on our home and yard. The area had changed alot with atleast 50 new homes built. Along with a lot of other older homes being renovated.
We new the area had become very popular and the homes values all had gone up in the area but when we opened the Notice of assesment and saw that our houses value had more then double in fact it was almost 3 times higher. My jaw hit the floor taxes went from 2200 to 6000.

Once the shock and anger settled we started to check around to see what our neighbours homes had been assesed atand found the home that most like our at the end of the block was only 1/3 the value of ours and we new it was now bigger becuse it had a large addition on the rear. I new the couple that lived in that home and would see them from time to time when walking the dog. A few days latter I saw them and brought up what my house was assesed at and how in the world was theirs so much less. He laughed and said Did you pull permits for everything? I said yes he goes "thats your problem your better off asking for forgiveness then permission when it comes to the city how do you think I was allowed to build a 2 story garage and an addition to the house that covers most of the yard". I was shocked more by this statement then when I had opened my tax bill. He went onto say he had went through the same thing in his first home was and he learned the same lesson.

The city we lived in did not have good records of homes built before 1980. Things like wether or not you had a garage or if your basement was finished even the overal size of the houses. ( I found this out latter at my proptery assesment hearing). The criteria the city used to assesed homes. Was averaging the size, age , area selling price for the last 2 years.

Since my area had a lot of new homes built and sold over the last 2 years plus I has pulled permits for everything i had done they considered the efective age of my home was 35 years newer then it actually was built because everything but the foundation and rough framing where the only thigs left from the 1950's.

At the assesment appeal hearing we used the fact that our home was 400 sqft smaller then they had in the records and we used our neighbours house as our Comp. but left out the fact it didnt have permits just to make it look like our homes was being picked on even worse Since the 2 homes looked very simluar other then color in the numerous pictures we presented during the hearing.

In the end the cut our taxes by 1/3 so still almost double what it was the year before. And once several of my neighbours learned of the results of tax issue when they replaced their single garages for 2 car garages they did it without permits.

A year latter we moved out of the city to a farm area that allows you to do what you want when you want how you want to any building thats not being used as a resedent.
No Permit No Tax issues.
 

denis4x4

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Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
509
Location
Durango CO
There is scary trend to take up the class warfare mantra not only on high income earners, but on the owners of high value properties. If they had an election in California to eliminate the Prop 13 status of small commercial properties and multi-family housing, it would pass in a heartbeat.

Small college towns have a core voter block that will work for and vote on feel good projects that result in higher property taxes "for the greater good".

My property taxes are extremely low due to the county taxes paid by natural gas extraction outfits. However, these same companies paid over 65% of the county property tax 18 years ago. Now, thanks to the tree huggers, EPA and federal land use restrictions, it is just over 50% and falling. Guess who's going to make up the difference?
 

john11139

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Oct 23, 2012
Messages
121
Location
Ohio
Property taxes are burrying most of us. Some people just dont get it. You remember the story of the "Little Red Hen". Now wasnt she a selfish little chicken because she worked so hard and woulld'nt spreat the wealth. Taxes are forceing many people to sell out just because they cant afford what they have worked for, for 40 or 50 years. Some times I think it would fairer to do away with property taxes and fund it with sales tax. I had two boys, sent them to school, no free lunches. no recepitant of welfare, now productive citizens, (one has his own businesss). Now neighbor has 6 kids, all on welfare, could care less about school, all medical bills paid by welfare, hospital bills paid, cell phones paid,, govt assisted housing. Too lazy to even pick up trash in their yard. They get the same benefits I get, but I pay for theirs. Wife works hard in the spring to put out a little garden to cut down on our food expense and have fresh produce. Offered to plow a little patch for them to put one in and with four teen age boys doint nothing in the summer they could take care of it. No way they said. We can just go down to the local food bank and get what we need or some local church will help us. Seen a bumper sticker on a car the other day that said "quit bitching and start a revoultion"
 

Sureshot

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Bridge Creek, OK
I would like to see a "study" or data on overall affordability in different areas. When looking at real estate lately we have found some places that look cheap to buy but the taxes are crazy then you here of places with super low taxes. I wonder when you add all the sales tax, school, water, sewer, garbage pickup, power, heat, mortgage interest and any other levy what the actual cost of living in the different places is.

Does such a thing exist?
 

Modifieddriver

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May 29, 2009
Messages
820
Location
Moonville, South Carolina
I would like to see a "study" or data on overall affordability in different areas. When looking at real estate lately we have found some places that look cheap to buy but the taxes are crazy then you here of places with super low taxes. I wonder when you add all the sales tax, school, water, sewer, garbage pickup, power, heat, mortgage interest and any other levy what the actual cost of living in the different places is.

Does such a thing exist?

That's a great question.

We know there are cost of living differences, housing cost differences, etc., but to include it all, I've never seen that.

And you have to be very specific. For example, I'll tell folks where I live in a general way relative to the closest large city, which is 8 miles away. But I live outside the city and pay no city taxes and as a result have fewer services. But those are services I don't need, so it works out great for me.

I worked for a large company that had their USA Headquarters outside New York City on Long Island. In the mid-late 80's they decided to move it south to be closer to the manufacturing plants located here, and save $money$.

The folks that agreed to relocate sold their homes, came to town with a fist full of money and thought they went to heaven when real estate shopping.

Having to reinvest their money or pay capital gains, many built, by our normal standards, a pretty lavish custom built house. The affordability went farther up when they saw their monthly escrow payments went way down. All this was good for our local economy.

I still see or keep track of many that have retired in the past 7-8 years. I can only cite one couple that moved back north, and then it was to a more affordable area just outside Akron, Ohio.
 
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BRIANBB

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Katy Texas
Look up your local appraisal disctricts website. All the properties are listed with their values. You can see what your neighbor is paying.
 

mikefromme

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Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Messages
266
I'd be pissed to.

Ya' take your $dough$ outa' your 401k and pay taxes on it. Ya' improve your property by building your dream garage and the get penalized for doing it to the tune of $700 per year :confused:.

Meanwhile some worthless no tax paying PoS is sheltered, eating, talking on a cell phone, getting free health care, education , etc. all on the backs of us.

Something isn't right here and I'm pretty sure I know what it is :mad: .

This forum needs a like button :thumbup:
 

darkk

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Dec 24, 2009
Messages
3,361
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Willimantic, Ct.
is much like peeing into a fan.

Wait! what...what's wrong with peeing in a fan?:dunno: You must be standing on the wrong side!:willy_nil
We built a 30x30 adition with loft a connector hall space and taxes went from $1300 to $2800 a year. Why is it I have to pay somebody for something I already own?
 
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GarageEnvy

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Location
Fresno
First, thanks to CharlesinGA for saving me a lot of typing. His description of the process is right on. I've worked as a real estate appraiser for the last 22 years and do tax assessment appeals for clients. California is somewhat unique in the taxation rate due to Prop. 13 but from my experience with my local assessor's office I've found these things to be true.
1) The level of analysis and support for the value done by an appraiser is usually far greater than that of the assessor (specific to residential properties)
2) They are more than willing to change the value if you support your case with factual data that complies with their rules on appealing your taxes.
3) They do not have some hidden agenda. There's no great conspiracy. They're simply valuing properties.
4) They're terribly overloaded with property valuations and can't spend much time on each one.
5) A friendly phone call questioning how they arrived at the new value and providing them with new information supporting your case may very well result in a lower tax bill at no cost. I did this on my own garage.

If I was appearing at an assessment board appeal with a client and the assessor said "I just put it into a computer and this is what came out", I'd be smiling like it was Christmas because I was about to eat his lunch. The Marshall & Swift method mentioned by Charles is completely valid. As he indicated there may be factors that cause a deviation. One of these would be functional depreciation. If nobody else has one, it might be an overimprovement or superadequacy for the area. It might have a diminished (less than cost) market value. It might not have any value at all. In fact, it's possible to make an addition that devalues a property.

Know your dates and rules for appealing your taxes and take your shot. Go in with documentation supporting a lower value or don't bother. I can't tell you how many times someone has questioned my value on appraisal without anything to support a different value.
 

Chevy-SS

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2010
Messages
1,484
Location
Rhode Island
I live in Southern Illinois. My house is 2000 sq. ft. The new garage is 30x40 or 1200 sq. ft.? My taxes now will be about $3100 I live on the edge of town we don't have city sewer. I was paying about $2400. I'm retired and I took the money out of my 401K to build my garage. That is why I am so mad. I guess I start looking around at comp. properties.
Thanks Guys


When you look at comps, focus on their garage assessments. You want to make sure your garage is assessed using the same calculations as everyone else.

Around here (Middletown, RI) garages, barns, basements and sheds are assessed at a MUCH lower valuation than finished living spaces.

If you find any discrepancies, then you should appeal. The main thing I have found, is to be sure you are using all of the "official" rates and valuations. Do not try to interject personal opinions. You gotta play by 'their' rules, and use 'their' numbers.
 

MoparTrucks

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
3,218
Location
Ozarks of Missouri
Man some of your tax burdens just make me cringe. When we built our 24'x32' pole barn a couple years ago the tax lady stopped literally the day after the contractor left and was taking pictures from the road so I went out to talk to her. Around here it pays to be friendly with everyone so I asked her how much my taxes would go up and she said "well as a guess I would say somewhere around 10 bucks", "a month?" I asked, "no, a year". Turns out it was $8.00 a year and now the total property tax burden on my entire farm is approaching $350.00 a year.

We have no services what so ever and the county is mostly broke (they still use 3 part carbon paper forms for things and your paid taxes are logged in an old fashioned ledger done by hand) but is sure allows a man to keep most of what he earns to himself.
 

Modifieddriver

Well-known member
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
820
Location
Moonville, South Carolina
Man some of your tax burdens just make me cringe. When we built our 24'x32' pole barn a couple years ago the tax lady stopped literally the day after the contractor left and was taking pictures from the road so I went out to talk to her. Around here it pays to be friendly with everyone so I asked her how much my taxes would go up and she said "well as a guess I would say somewhere around 10 bucks", "a month?" I asked, "no, a year". Turns out it was $8.00 a year and now the total property tax burden on my entire farm is approaching $350.00 a year.

We have no services what so ever and the county is mostly broke (they still use 3 part carbon paper forms for things and your paid taxes are logged in an old fashioned ledger done by hand) but is sure allows a man to keep most of what he earns to himself.


I'll suggest to keep your county a secret. Otherwise you'll be invaded by social do-gooders that want to take advantage of the low taxes, but will eventually ruin a good thing with their well meaning but misplaced do-gooder ideas and intentions.

AND the from the road appraisal is a good thing. This letting them through the doorway to see what's inside is BS. None of their damn business.
 
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ed_v

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
1,418
Location
Kentucky
Charles (in Ga.) is right on!

I just moved back to Ky last year after living the last 33 years in the suburbs in Chicago. I had a moderately sized 1400sq/ft townhome built in the 90's that I paid $600 a month in taxes on! It was as much as my mortgage!

I finally said the hell with it and got out of that "blue" state hellhole and moved to a small farm here in Kentucky. My taxes here are less than a $1000 per year. I live in a county that only has 19000 people. Our taxes are low, yet we still have schools, emergency response, roadwork, and all the essentials.... yet in Cook Co (IL) we had around 8 million people and the taxes were through the roof!

Like Charles said, the problem is in mismanagement and when the local governments start acting as their own entity. I used to go into the accessors office every year to fight it, but usually just wasted my breath. Good luck with your fight.

Ed
 

Bob-B

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
451
Location
Long Island, NY
At least you have something to show for the $800 increase. My school taxes alone went up $800 and I made no improvemnents. Can't wait for the county and town tax increase..........
 

66replica

New member
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
1
If you think you own property just try not paying the taxes. You don't own, you're just renting from the government!

Property taxes are the worst kind of tax.
 

Sureshot

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
3,134
Location
Bridge Creek, OK
I believe the larger the goverment "entity" the less efficient and the less accountable they get. In a city of millions you do not even know a morsel of what goes on. In a county of 19000 people see it and they know the people involved.

One example comes to mind from here. One of the city workers mixed up the lawn chemicals so instead of killing the Dandelions they burnt it all off with Roundup. Several boulevards and places in the city. O ya and just so happens one of the city workers yards also turned brown, but it was just a coincidence. City of 10k. Everyone new about it and drove past the house to see. That kind of peer pressure goes along way to keeping the renegades in check.
 

Modifieddriver

Well-known member
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
820
Location
Moonville, South Carolina
I believe the larger the goverment "entity" the less efficient and the less accountable they get. In a city of millions you do not even know a morsel of what goes on. In a county of 19000 people see it and they know the people involved.

One example comes to mind from here. One of the city workers mixed up the lawn chemicals so instead of killing the Dandelions they burnt it all off with Roundup. Several boulevards and places in the city. O ya and just so happens one of the city workers yards also turned brown, but it was just a coincidence. City of 10k. Everyone new about it and drove past the house to see. That kind of peer pressure goes along way to keeping the renegades in check.


Now that's funny, sounds like something thus guy would do :Homer:.
 

66HertzClone

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
4,036
Location
Long Valley, NJ
We had a 20 x 12 foot shed built on a slab, my taxes jumped $28 a quarter. The deck was old pressure treated wood that was badly warped and split, no railing, just that bench that acts as a railing. We had the bench removed, added a railing and synthetic decking material. There was a section of the deck we had removed because it just didn't fit we'll with the garden. After final inspection the accessor came to look, I pointed out it was now smaller that before, he replied that my taxes might not go up after all, they did.

We have an addition to the house in the works, I just can't wait to see what permit fees and tax adjustment end up costing. I have to submit 23 copies of the site plan and architectural plans for the variance hearing. The population here is around 5800 people, gotta love NJ.
 
Last edited:

Modifieddriver

Well-known member
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
820
Location
Moonville, South Carolina
We had a 20 x 12 foot shed built on a slab, my taxes jumped $28 a quarter. The deck was old pressure treated wood that was badly warped and split, no railing, just that bench that acts as a railing. We had the bench removed, added a railing and synthetic decking material. There was a section of the deck we had removed because it just didn't fit we'll with the garden. After final inspection the accessor came to look, I pointed out it was now smaller that before, he replied that my taxes might not go up after all, they did.

We have an addition to the house in the works, I just can't wait to see what permit fees and tax adjustment end up costing. I have to submit 23 copies of the site plan and architectural plans for the variance hearing. The population here is around 5800 people, gotta love NJ.


Sounds like it's time for another reality TV show. County Assessors and Bureaucrats Gone Wild
 

2level

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
1,146
Location
Washington
My property taxes went up about $600/year after building a detached garage. I filed an appeal based on a comparison of four recent neighborhood house sales that had a lower assessed value per sq. ft. than my houses valuation. I lost that appeal in 2011. I filed again, using the same basic comparisons, and won in 2012.

The main difference between 2011 and 2012 was that I met with the County Appraiser at my house in 2012 to basically point out the details that I had provided pictures of in 2011. I did not let him in the house or shop. If I'm still living here in 20 years, in theory I should have about a $4,000-$6,000 savings.

The County lowered my house appraisal about $10/sq. ft. but didn't budge on the new garage appraisal ( currently $15/sq. ft.). If I file for another appeal, I'll ask the County for a breakdown of garage valuations per square foot. They don't seperate out the houses and garage values on their Web Site.

BTW, I decided to do this appeal after reading previous Garage Journal threads on the same subject. So thanks to all involved in those discussions!
 

Hobbit

Well-known member
Joined
May 23, 2011
Messages
1,853
Location
Bama
First, thanks to CharlesinGA for saving me a lot of typing. His description of the process is right on. I've worked as a real estate appraiser for the last 22 years and do tax assessment appeals for clients. California is somewhat unique in the taxation rate due to Prop. 13 but from my experience with my local assessor's office I've found these things to be true.
1) The level of analysis and support for the value done by an appraiser is usually far greater than that of the assessor (specific to residential properties)
2) They are more than willing to change the value if you support your case with factual data that complies with their rules on appealing your taxes.
3) They do not have some hidden agenda. There's no great conspiracy. They're simply valuing properties.
4) They're terribly overloaded with property valuations and can't spend much time on each one.
5) A friendly phone call questioning how they arrived at the new value and providing them with new information supporting your case may very well result in a lower tax bill at no cost. I did this on my own garage.

If I was appearing at an assessment board appeal with a client and the assessor said "I just put it into a computer and this is what came out", I'd be smiling like it was Christmas because I was about to eat his lunch. The Marshall & Swift method mentioned by Charles is completely valid. As he indicated there may be factors that cause a deviation. One of these would be functional depreciation. If nobody else has one, it might be an overimprovement or superadequacy for the area. It might have a diminished (less than cost) market value. It might not have any value at all. In fact, it's possible to make an addition that devalues a property.

Know your dates and rules for appealing your taxes and take your shot. Go in with documentation supporting a lower value or don't bother. I can't tell you how many times someone has questioned my value on appraisal without anything to support a different value.

Bless you GarageEnvy:

You coudn't have said it better. My wife is the Chief Appraiser for the BOE here in the largest county in Alabama. She has 25+ years in Ad valorem taxation and near that in commercial/residential fee work as a Cert. General. working throughout the SouthEast. The only thing she asks of a taxpayer when they show up at a hearing is to bring their data that proves their argument. If you bring in a **** appraisal, an attitude or try to throw your reputation at her she has the experience and will politely and professionally tear you a new one.
 

ManxRacer

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Messages
91
Location
Kentucky
Charles (in Ga.) is right on!

I just moved back to Ky last year after living the last 33 years in the suburbs in Chicago. ...
Ed

All things are relative. I recently moved back to Kentucky from Florida. I paid more property taxes in Florida but it was only on my house. Given that I didn't have an income tax in Florida and didn't have taxes on my vehicles, I pay more in Kentucky than I did in Florida. And, I certainly do not get the services. The fire department here is a VFD and there's not a police station within 20 miles.

I did not realize when I moved back to Kentucky that I was turning all of my vehicles over to the School Board. I have five cars and nine motorcycles. In my county, the School Board levies property taxes, almost all of which go to the School Board. Talk about conflict of interest! If I don't pay the taxes on their vehicles, they will come and take their vehicles and sell them to someone who will pay the annual rent.

I bought a used wooden boat a few months ago. When I went to register it, they informed me that the property taxes hadn't been paid on it for the last 27 years and that I'd have to pay them before I could register it. They wanted to assess its value at approximately four times what I paid for it!

I consider property taxes to be the most un-American of taxes. If they can take the property, that you own outright, because you don't pay their extortion, you do not really own the property.

End of rant. This hit a sore spot.
 
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