Propress Users - Need some feedback and fitting advice

[HandyFS]

To all my Propress people, I have joined your club. Looking forward to some feedback on fittings and the different options out here besides Viega.

I finally bit the bullet and picked up a used Propress tool. I'm one of those DIY guys that has far too many tools, many for the "Just In Case" situations. In this case, I'm planning to replumb my entire house soon so I wanted a Propress setup in my arsenal. Pex-B and crimps is what I commonly use, some Pex-A, but I still sweat and use copper for certain things. I'm no stranger to plumbing, So, a Propress tool has a space in my tool corral. Yes, expensive, yes most will say why bother. But, no tool goes unused or unnoticed in my world, so I'm happy to have it.

I just used it last night on replacing a shower valve and I still had to sweat a connection or two based on the configuration and what press fittings I had available (Which was limited), and it reminded me exactly WHY I'm trying to press more, and sweat less. Some worry about an O-ring going bad after X years, but I've seen plenty of shotty sweats go bad over time too, so 6 in 1, half dozen in the other in my mind.

Now that I've justified this purchase to myself, lets talk about fittings. I have mainly used Viega branded fittings which are considered the top level ones out there. I am going to create a box of spare fittings/parts to get a lot of the most common stuff on hand and am tempted to try some other branded fittings. I am normally an "OEM" type guy and buy name brand tools and branded parts, but in the pex world I've used plenty of branded stuff, and less known stuff off of Amazon. EField pex ball valves and connectors have served me extremely well, and they offer a ton of brass/copper Propress fittings. I see other brands like WHK, EZ-FLUID, and others dominating with tons of sales and positivity.

When it comes to water and plumbing, naturally I'm extra cautious. So I'm just curious what all of you who use a Propress setup use? In my own house I have some smart devices to turn off water from many different sensors so I'm not as worried about a leak in my own place. But when I'm out helping a relative or friend who isn't equipped with sensors, I want to be sure I'm using reliable stuff.

I am leaning on grabbing a bunch of Viega fittings, and then possibly some of the hugely popular secondary brand fittings on Amazon that seem like they are worthy. Then I can be selective about where I use which.

Just looking for some opinions and feedback. Anyone using the secondary brand fittings happily?

 

[Rusted Nut]

If you bought this used, checked the number of presses remaining. I had a plumber with a press that stopped working because it hit 10,000 presses and needed service after that. Tool was dead until serviced. Yours may vary.

 

[fastev]

I only use Viega. The price premium isn’t worth the risk to me, and the speed a job can be completed in makes up the difference. Their valves are really nice. Orings are lubed. Copper and forming quality seems significantly higher than the big box store offerings.
I’ve had great luck using supplyhouse for all my pro press parts. We’ve got 1/2 to 3” in our buildings.

 

[T444e]

I have used Viega, Apollo and and a few Nibco press fittings. I don't recall issues with any of them that were not installer error. Be sure to deburr the tube. A burr cutting the o-ring or not pressing a joint were typical reasons for the leaks I'm aware we had. There were instances I used a mix Viega and Apollo press fittings due to space constraints. Some fittings have a different takeout between the various manufacturers.

 

[gizardlizard]

Both pro presses and shark bites are designed to speed things up for plumbers and more importantly, make them more money. I’ve used both but for emergencies only. If you think for one second that a properly sweated joint will fail before a pressed joint or shark bit joint, you are surely mistaken.

 

[housewolf]

I’ve been retired from the plumbing industry for a few years so I’m not up to the minute on what guys are using today. We used Viega & Nibco without problems. Once you get over 1-1/2” (I think) the two brands aren’t compatible, meaning you can’t press N fittings with V jaws & vice versa. That can be troublesome. I’ve seen more projects spec’d Viega only but in most (but not all) cases they’ve accepted Nibco or Apollo as substitutions. There’s at least one large engineering firm that won’t accept any press fittings under any circumstance.

We’ve been using them since early 2000s and I was skeptical. Particularly with the high cost on larger fittings. I still have my doubts about it being cost effective on 2” and up. My main objection is/was; when you reduce the skill level it takes to install a system, you will eventually have less skilled people doing the installation. That’s fine if we’re only talking about making the joints but there’s a lot more to plumbing than making the joints. Is it level/to grade, straight, plumb, secured properly, sized correctly, etc… dumbing down the industry hasn’t put more $$ in contractors pocket (long term) or the craftsman’s either. It did lower the quality of the customers finished product to put money in the pockets of people making and selling the tools & fittings.

 

[Renegade1LI]

As a union shop in NYC every agency has approved press fittings, still have to submit for approval the brand. I don't think they are dumbing down the industry, just the opposite. Plumbers have to learn how to press joints in addition to all other methods. it's another tool system & it requires some skilled training. The only time i've seen a pressed joint fail is from a bad install & it's picked up during pressure testing. We usually always submit Viega as it's typically in the spec, but we use other name brands with good results. Iv'e bought the bluefin off supply house & they seem fine, I worry more about the proper cutting & cleaning of the pipe. Make sure the end is debured & the pipe should be clean.

 

[allinon72]

I understand that the Propress method lowers barriers to entry and makes old school plumbers with skills less valuable....in the same way that horse trainers weren't as valuable once the motor vehicle came along. It's an evolution in the trade that will understandably be met with resistance. Folks like to knock the o-ring...I think the o-ring will last at least as long as your average sweated fitting. Hell, I've even seen a Propress fitting that someone forgot to press hold pressure for far longer than it should have.

I deal with commercial plumbing and it solves the biggest issue for companies, by far, which is LABOR savings. The increased cost of the fittings is far outweighed the decreased labor by far. In addition, given the skilled labor shortage, it allows companies a path forward on getting jobs done since it is easier than other plumbing methods.

 

[housewolf]

I understand that the Propress method lowers barriers to entry and makes old school plumbers with skills less valuable....in the same way that horse trainers weren't as valuable once the motor vehicle came along. It's an evolution in the trade that will understandably be met with resistance. Folks like to knock the o-ring...I think the o-ring will last at least as long as your average sweated fitting. Hell, I've even seen a Propress fitting that someone forgot to press hold pressure for far longer than it should have.

I deal with commercial plumbing and it solves the biggest issue for companies, by far, which is LABOR savings. The increased cost of the fittings is far outweighed the decreased labor by far. In addition, given the skilled labor shortage, it allows companies a path forward on getting jobs done since it is easier than other plumbing methods.

A 4” propress 90 deg ell is ~ $100 more than a sweat 90. Far outweighed? Assuming the fit time is about the same, how long does it take your plumbers to sweat a 4” 90?

 

[mike93lx]

A 4” propress 90 deg ell is ~ $100 more than a sweat 90. Far outweighed? Assuming the fit time is about the same, how long does it take your plumbers to sweat a 4” 90?

How long does it take to get that hot work permit, plus the extra labor of a fire watch?

@HandyFS make sure you are marking insertion depth and paying attention to it. Also, know the distances required between fittings

 

[housewolf]

How long does it take to get that hot work permit, plus the extra labor of a fire watch?

@HandyFS make sure you are marking insertion depth and paying attention to it. Also, know the distances required between fittings

My background is large commercial projects. When it’s required, we’re usually filling out hot work permits daily anyway. Fire watch isn’t usually required unless we are producing sparks (welding/grinding).

If I’m being 100% honest, I guess my biggest complaint is seeing $75K of a project budget in labor converting into material. Labor is always risky so management would rather see it converted to material $$. Historically I was very good at coordinating labor and having savings in my labor budget. My bonuses were directly related to saving money that was in the estimate. That $75K I would lose in labor amounts to (potentially) ~$2K out of my pocket.

We once had to cut out an offset of four large lines that conflicted with some ductwork we were given bad drawings for. I watched about $4K of pipe & fittings thrown in the scrap pile. If they’d been soldered, we could have salvaged most of it. It made me want to puke. Even with a 25-30 man crew, it takes a tremendous amount of efficient work to recover $4K.

IME, propress really shines anywhere there’s ever been water in the pipe (shutdowns) and up to 2” lines overhead.

 

[HandyFS]

Thank for the feedback from all angles, everyone. You all make great points all around. On the fittings, I may order a few and do some of my own testing. When I first got my ProPress I rigged up a tester where I was able to get water pressure, and compressed air into a test setup to see how the fittings held. I used Viega fittings to see how well my Propress and Jaws were functioning, since I don't truly know the machine's usage count, but from the visual it looks low, and seems to work well. All did well at regular 65-75psi on water, and 125+ on compressed air for over 24 hours. I may rig up a water pump to see if I can get a lot more PSI on the water to really push the fittings and see if they give out at a higher pressure.

I thankfully haven't ever had any of my plumbing fail. Even though I can get pretty rusty at sweating since time passes where I'm not doing copper, the joints always hold. I even have 2 SharkBite's valves/fittings I installed in my unfinished basement about 15 years ago that I have been meaning to get around to replacing and just never have, and they are holding steady.

There is no doubt Pro Press has its place, and is easy and worth the cost of the tool and the fittings in certain situations. I was doing a shower valve last week and the Pro Press made the job SO MUCH EASIER vs breaking out the torch in this tight tough area.

I will say, if I'm paying a plumber for something, I still would prefer they sweat copper over press. Most guys I've asked will charge the same amount, and take the easy press route if you let them. I still plan to sweat myself, but, I can see the pro press definitely becoming more regular in my projects now that I have it.

On pricing, Viega 1/2 ball valves are extremely expensive, over $20+ each when you can get the SupplyHouse BlueFin valves for just under $10 each, that adds up real quick when doing a replumbing job. So I can't help but want to consider some of these more reasonable options when copper is required and I can't get away with using Pex.

I'm going to load up on Viega fittings mostly for now, but I may grab some well reviewed off brand ones and put them to the test.

 

[mike93lx]

I will say, if I'm paying a plumber for something, I still would prefer they sweat copper over press. Most guys I've asked will charge the same amount, and take the easy press route if you let them. I still plan to sweat myself, but, I can see the pro press definitely becoming more regular in my projects now that I have it

I can't imagine owning a press tool and choosing sweat over it. I'd only sweat when press won't work for the circumstance

I dont have any qualms about a plumber using press in my house.

 

[T444e]

I will say, if I'm paying a plumber for something, I still would prefer they sweat copper over press. Most guys I've asked will charge the same amount, and take the easy press route if you let them. I still plan to sweat myself, but, I can see the pro press definitely becoming more regular in my projects now that I have it.

Unless you're someplace that doesn't allow CPVC or PEX, I can almost guarantee they are not going to quote copper unless specifically requested. I'm also sure you would get a higher price for sweat copper over press.

While press fittings are faster up front, I creates a headache in the future when equipment is replaced when it is piped fitting on fitting. At least with sweat joints, a joint can be undone and minimize the material required. This is not typically an issue in residential settings, but it is way too common in commercial and industrial settings, especially with process piping.

I can't imagine owning a press tool and choosing sweat over it. I'd only sweat when press won't work for the circumstance

I have had access to press tools for the last 20 years and when I repiped the house I used sweat fittings. I have used press fittings in the past for tie-ins or where I'm concerned about hot work, but I just prefer sweat copper.

 

[mike93lx]

I have had access to press tools for the last 20 years and when I repiped the house I used sweat fittings. I have used press fittings in the past for tie-ins or where I'm concerned about hot work, but I just prefer sweat copper.

None is objectively the best and a lot is down to preference. Thankfully lots of choices.

Lot of people like PEX, but I don't. My house is all copper and I'm keeping it that way

Just feels odd to me for someone to spend the significant money for a press tool and not use it (referring to the OP, not you)

 

[HandyFS]

I can't imagine owning a press tool and choosing sweat over it. I'd only sweat when press won't work for the circumstance

I dont have any qualms about a plumber using press in my house.

Fair statements. I have some sweat joints in my house that are easily 75+ years old and still holding, possibly older. We have no clue if press fittings will go that long. Then again, I'll probably be long gone by then to care, lol. For me, press takes a lot less skill. Same as if a plumber showed up and threw a Sharkbite on which you hear stories of them doing all the time. I get the whole part that plumbing itself takes skill, but some methods take a lot less talent. If I'm paying, I'd rather sweat connections if we are going copper.

Unless you're someplace that doesn't allow CPVC or PEX, I can almost guarantee they are not going to quote copper unless specifically requested. I'm also sure you would get a higher price for sweat copper over press.

While press fittings are faster up front, I creates a headache in the future when equipment is replaced when it is piped fitting on fitting. At least with sweat joints, a joint can be undone and minimize the material required. This is not typically an issue in residential settings, but it is way too common in commercial and industrial settings, especially with process piping.


I have had access to press tools for the last 20 years and when I repiped the house I used sweat fittings. I have used press fittings in the past for tie-ins or where I'm concerned about hot work, but I just prefer sweat copper.

Great points all around. Agreed on the quoting of copper vs press. The price sweating used to cost is now press price around here, sweat is just that much more. I have a plumber or two who I buy materials and they do the labor and they will press, crimp, or sweat same price so that's why I mention it being a preference if I'm paying since they're willing. I also prefer the ability to remove a fitting and re-sweat where press we have to start cutting out sections and pressing in more.

I picked up the press tool for similar reasons to you. I prefer sweat. My own properties have a mix of 100+ year old pipe that's still in use, old copper, new copper, and pex. Certain connections I just prefer being copper, and sweat. Others I don't care as much.

None is objectively the best and a lot is down to preference. Thankfully lots of choices.

Lot of people like PEX, but I don't. My house is all copper and I'm keeping it that way

Just feels odd to me for someone to spend the significant money for a press tool and not use it (referring to the OP, not you)

I appreciate the constructive feedback, I'm just a random DIY guy trying to figure things out so I like hearing feedback from all angles. I'm re-piping my entire house soon and am still up in the air on what I will use. I don't mind Pex, but I definitely prefer copper in some fashion. Certainly some copper will be in my plan, but I may transition off to pex for some of it. I'm going to let pricing steer me a bit, and I'll be starting out pricing out mostly pro press, then sweat copper with some press. I'll see if it makes sense to mix in some pex to garden hoses and such to save some material costs. My basement is unfinished so I can go back monkeying around anytime I want which is nice for most of it. So I have the tool, but I'll still be selective about where its used.

I got the press for my own properties, but also for when I'm helping out family and friends. Last week I helped renovate a shower/vanity that was all old school copper and some of the areas would have been a nightmare to sweat. If I use this press tool a dozen times, it will be well worth what I paid for it. I'm already up to about 3-4 uses that made my life so much easier, and I have 2 friends planning to borrow it for their projects. Within the year it will be justified, paid for, and will then live on to help whoever else in my life that needs me to help out with plumbing, or needs to borrow it. You should see the rest of my tool collection