Proto ratchet adapter apart

[Tool Pants]

Here is my expenience with a Williams ratchet adapter.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27220&showall=1

So I bought a Proto 5447 that has Los Angeles on it. As far as I can determine this is an older version. To change direction you slide a wing. The newer version is also 5447 but you turn a knurled ring to change direction, like my junk Williams.

This Proto is the older wing version.

How do I take it apart? Unlike the Williams the Proto has no clips that I can see. There are 2 holes in the body. In the second picture I put a pick in each hole so you can see where they are.

Just cranking this thing around it sounds like there are 2 pawls inside. I wonder if I put the selector in the middle/neutral and shove something into the holes to depress the pawls, and then pull up on the drive end. I would have tried it already but my third hand Thing is not around today.

 

[gotmud13613]

Looks just like my Plomb 5447 (kinda)

I have also tried to take it apart to clean but no luck yet, The ratcheting action is fine, but it does sound like some grit is in there, which is why I would like to get it apart to clean it.

 

[Tool Pants]

Plomb Proto Stanley. One big happy family. I saw that one on ebay. You have the Plomb version and I have the Proto version. Same thing.

Your Plomb has the same 2 holes. They are there for a reason.

Putting paper clips in the holes and turning the tool did not work, but the tool stops rotating when the selector is 90 degrees from the holes. Can't find an exploded view.

 

[64merc]

I am very curious about this one. I hope someone figures it out.

 

[Tool Pants]

So far it has not been me to figure it out.

I put the selector in the middle position so that it freewheels - no teeth are engaged. I cannot pull the female drive part out of the body. There is nothing on the male part of the body to play around with.

I positioned the female drive part so that the 2 holes are 90 degrees off from the selector. When I push on one of the paper clips I feel a spring, so I guess the clip must be pushing against a pawl. In fact if I push hard enough the selector will move from the middle to the off/on position.

I thought this had 2 pawls, but it may be a single.

Then I thought it might do something to the area where the selector is, but I cannot see in there.

 

[old salvage]

Is there anything in the recess for where the breaker bar goes in ?

 

[Tool Pants]

Nothing...

 

[bchee]

There is nothing on the male part of the body to play around with.

I found mine when I was 9 years old!

But seriously, are you able to simultaneously rotate the female part and push the paper clip in at the same time?

 

[Uncle Buck]

Why do you guys rip these things apart as soon as you buy them? I usually only tear them down if they are not functioning well? As an example I have two of those ratchet adapters you are messing with and both work well, so why mess with what ain't broke?

 

[48548]

I have a couple and just use a fine pick in both holes and turn the ratchet part while pushing one end in and then when you get one, then try to push the other, they are spring loaded and a pointed to make it easier to push in when you put back together. I was able to do it on a plomb that I had. If you need some pictures, let me know, but it does take a little poking around, that is why I used 2 fine picks, also the tabs, that are spring loaded can fall out, so be careful or you could lose them when you take it apart.

 

[Tool Pants]

I took it to work and gave it a go with Thing as my helper. Even with 4 hands I can't get it apart. My hands are not in the picture because I needed them to take the pictures. I put the male drive part into a large socket so it would sit on my desk while we played with it.

With the picks or clips in the hole it stops turning when the holes are 90 degrees from the selector. I had Thing push in hard while I tried to lift the female part up from the ratchet extension. Also tried to keep turning the female part but it will not move when something is inserted in the holes.

Need some pictures.

 

[48548]

I don't know where the selector is, I just could feel the springs give when I pushed in the tabs, make sure you are pushing them in, maybe you are using something to wide, because you need some room to give and them I just pulled the adapter out one side at a time.

 

[Tool Pants]

Once I saw your first picture the rest was easy.

There are 2 spring loaded pins that hold it together. I pushed in on both through the holes and Thing pull up.

 

[gotmud13613]

Great info guys, mine was full of crud !

 

[Tool Pants]

I lubricated it and put it back together. Then I did a test just like I did for the Williams. The Proto makes a loud crack sound like it has jumped a tooth when I put a breaker bar on it and apply torque. That is what the Williams did, but the Williams jumped more teeth.

I am going to have to think about this.

The Proto was sold as like new - may never have been used. I took it apart as you can see from the prior pictures. I saw no signs that it had ever been used. The pawl and broached teeth looked like they had just come off the assembly line. I saw no signs it ever had a drive tool or socket on it.

The highest torque test I have handy is my Boxster wheel bolts which are 96 foot pounds. Using a Utica 1/2" drive torque wrench I torqued the bolts to 96 foot pounds. I have owned this Utica for years and it goes to 150 foot pounds, and my Utica has 2 pawls.

Then I hooked up the Proto ratchet adapter to a breaker bar. I leaned on the breaker bar with my weight on it just a bit to go just past 96 foot pounds. I heard the crack sound. Tested on 3 wheel bolts and the same 3 times. On one of the bolts as I applied more torque I heard the crack sound twice.

I am starting to think these ratchet adapters are not something to use on a breaker bar, as the adapters cannot handle the torque load. More so with the single pawl design of the Williams and Proto.

 

[64merc]

Tool Pants, your test run was disappointing to say the least. I was under the impression that they were made to use with a breaker bar and could handle the the stress you put it under.

 

[Bolster]

Very puzzling, indeed.

 

[bchee]

48548 to the rescue

I don't know where the selector is, I just could feel the springs give when I pushed in the tabs

 

[bchee]

Your torque tests are unusual. I would think most 1/2 drive stuff could easily handle more than 100 ft-lbs. Technically, I guess it's a ratcheting adapter, not a breaker bar.

Was the direction selector completely engaged in the direction you wanted?

After your trials, did you open it again to see if there was any damage?

 

[Tool Pants]

I am going to test it again.

But in the meantime don't bother contacting Stanley Proto customer service if you ever need information.

When I could not figure out how to take it apart I sent an email to Stanley Proto requesting an exploded diagram for a 5447. The response was : "Sorry, but this item is too old for us to referance. We have no instructions or drawings of it. Thanks."

The 5447 is in the catalog on the Stanley Proto website, but I guess after Stanley took over Proto they put a J in front of Proto part numbers. So now it is a J5447. I sent as screen shot of the catalog page with a J5447 to Stanley Proto and told customer service it is a current product.

This morning I received this reply: "This product does not come apart and is not repairable in the field."

Now I am going to send customer service a picture of a 5447 taken apart.

 

[krusty the clown]

anything that is assembled can be dissasembled.........

 

[Bolster]

This morning I received this reply: "This product does not come apart and is not repairable in the field."

Now I am going to send customer service a picture of a 5447 taken apart.

LOL, good for you! Stupid customer service drones.

 

[old salvage]

I've got the later one with the knurled ring selector.
I called someone to borrow a torque wrench last night but theirs is only 3/8" drive to 50 lbs.
I'm really curious now. I wonder if mine would fail too.

Found this....

Fed’l Specs.: GGG-W-641E
ANSI Spec.:B107.10M

on some tool site where it was advertised for sale.
Does anyone know of a listing for these codes ?

 

[Tool Pants]

The knurled selector ring is the latest version. I have seen it with a black or chrome ring. It looks just like my Williams and I bet it comes apart like my Williams. See if there is a round spiral clip above the selector.

When I bought my Proto on ebay I though this was that version. The seller had 2 Proto adapters. He had just the adapter with the ring style, and another adapter with a bunch of unused Proto tools. Someone kept outbidding me on just the adapter, so I started bidding on the Proto set. After I bid on the Proto set I enlarged the picture and saw that is was the older style with a wing selector.

 

[old salvage]

Yes,
there is a spiral clip that allows the selector to come off. When thats removed there's another spiral clip that allows the rest of it to come apart.

 

[Tool Pants]

I took the Proto ratchet adapter to work this morning so Thing could help me take it apart again. Of course Thing wanted to know why I was taking it apart again. To check the pawl teeth of course. To see what they looked like because that adapter jumped a tooth or two on me when I tried to go past 96 foot pounds. Unless I imagined it.

Took it home and cleaned off the grease from the pawl for pictures. The pawl has 2 teeth on one end for tighten, and 2 teeth on the other end of the pawl for loosen.

You can see that the inside tooth of the tighten end of the pawl is dented. It was not like that yesterday when we first took it apart. In the third picture I put yellow lines that show the portion of the inside tooth that was dented, or I guess you could say flattened.

I am suprised. I though it was ok to use this with a breaker bar, within reason of course. And what compounds the issue is that there is only one pawl to spread the load.

And I guess that it why it is called a ratchet adapter. Something from the olden days when an actual ratchet wrench was an expensive commodity.

 

[cruiser808]

Tool Pants, thank you for this insightful thread. I have learned alot about these not so well known tools. I have a number of these by Proto and Blackhawk and have never pushed them to your torque range, although I just assumed I could do so.

Now, my question is: did the folks at Plomb realize that the 2 tooth version was insufficient and redesign the Proto's to take on more torque? What does Snap-on do? Perhaps some good folks here can tell us thier experiences with adapters. Mine unfortunately, is simply turning engine crankshafts with a 24" breaker bar and the attachment. Great for quickly finding TDC from the top of the engine compartment.

 

[48548]

I have a plomb and it has a tooth chipped like yours... I also have a proto version and 2 snap on and I have put a lot of force on mine and never had them break, my father has the older snap on and he put 250 pounds on one and the spring got messed up, so he stretched it out and it works fine again. Tools pants if you want to sell your broken one to me, let me know I might be interested in it. The snap on are designed differently so maybe that isn't an issue on them.

 

[64merc]

This thread has been very informative. I don't think I'm going to be buying any old Plomb/Proto ratchet adapters any time soon. Honestly, I'm still surprised that it couldn't take 100 ft pounds.

 

[billymade]

Federal spec # GGG-W-641E .PDF document:
http://www.everyspec.com/FED+SPECS/download.php?spec=GGG-W-641E.006287.PDF

http://www.everyspec.com

I cannot seem to find any ANSI docs about the spec B107.10M: http://publicaa.ansi.org/sites/apdl/default.aspx

http://www.ansi.org/

 

[48548]

Also the problem I have found is if you break the plomb, you have no warranty so sell them to me, hahaha. If you have snap on I assume you might be able to get them fixed. I use my 5849 plomb ratchet as a breaker bar, since it is 24inches long and I doubt it would break.

 

[billymade]

Has anyone had the current Proto company; warranty exchange a vintage "plomb" marked tool? Just curios!

Also, does Thing #1 look like this? Sorry, couldn't resist! LOL!

 

[48548]

I was curious about that also, I did get them to send me a kit and said I have a ratchet and gave them the part number, but never said it was a plomb.... I also noticed that they only usually replace the tool when you send it to them, but you can ask for a kit if you want to keep the tool.

 

[old salvage]

Billymade, thats going to make for some good reading. Thanks.

 

[Tool Pants]

How did you get a kit? A kit for a 5447 with the wing selector? How long ago was this? What is the part number? I could not even get Stanley Proto to send me an exploded view.

 

[48548]

I got a kit for ratchets, not for an ratchet adapter, but you might be able to send it back in and get them to replace it, that was what they did for me (a round flex head, that the head was stripped), when I had a broken ratchet. I sent it in and got a new one sent to me.

 

[Mike83]

This is a little off topic, but I was wondering how many teeth the Proto 1/2" adaptor has. The price is a bit lower than the Snap-On, which has 18 or 20 gear teeth. Is the Proto now made overseas?

 

[old salvage]

I just counted 30 on mine.

 

[Tool Pants]

34 on mine. Mine is Proto Los Angeles, so I think it is in between Plomb and the current Stanley Proto with the knurled ring.

I did look at the Snap-On 1/2" and it is listed as 20 teeth.

 

[64merc]

Thanks to this thread I was able to easily open up an old 1/2 drive Plomb I had. Now I know why it was skipping - it has several broken teeth in the "head" and the pawl is smashed on both ends. BTW, it only had one tooth on each end of the single pawl (no wonder it stripped).