Proto Tools Picture Thread - Post Yours!

[Private Lugnutz]

Snerk.

 

[Smokeshow69]

Are you sure about that date, Smoke? Is the page that Toolmobile notice appears on physically connected to the Proto mailer cover that is dated 1952? Or could it be separate?

Here's why I ask.

According to the USPTO, Plomb Tool Company applied for that TM on April 12, 1956, and it was granted on November 27, 1956. Link here.

It gets weirder.

In their TM application, Plomb claimed first use of the Toolmobile name on December 13, 1946. I know it appears in Catalog 17B, which was published in 1939!

Did Plomb not have access to their own catalogs and other records? Or by first use are they referring to the first tme they put the "Toolmobile" name on the unit itself, not just in paperwork or packaging? (By the way, I get your point, but it was 17 years from its appearance in the 1939 catalog, and 10 years from their own stated first use date.)

This couldn't get any weirder.

Yes, they are connected...the pages are bound together by staples and they are intact... in terms of this, maybe 1952 is when Proto was granted that copyright ? I get where you are going and I have no clue. We know how loosey goosey they were with copyrights and they did some weird stuff. I wish i had more of these mailers to compare to but i only have these 4. But i am 100% certain no one messed with the order of these pages in the mailers.

I wish we had someone on this thread who had devoted a fair amount of time to researching the lawsuits and the Pendleton tool company in general Maybe he could shed light on this rabbit hole

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I get where you are going... [ ]...I wish we had someone on this thread who had devoted a fair amount of time to researching the lawsuits and the Pendleton tool company in general Maybe he could shed light on this rabbit hole

Haha. Well, where he is going is nowhere fast. It's not so much a rabbit hole as a puzzling wall too massive to get around. And research is not going to resolve this.

There is zero question or doubt about when the "Toolmobile" TM was submitted (April 12, 1956) or granted (Nov 27, 1956) according to the USPTO. There are no records in the USPTO TSDR database of an earlier document and no indications or hints in the certificate or the proceedings or assignment pages showing or indicating previous actions on that TM. (BTW, it was renewed in 1976 and expired in 1997.)

Seeing them extoll the new TM in a Proto newsletter dated 1952 is anachronistic to the USPTO record.

Is it possible that the page announcing the "Toolmobile" TM in your Proto newsletter is from later than 1956, and someone (e.g., a clerk in a store, etc) mistakenly stapled it to the 1952 newsletter. In other words, maybe the staples are intact, and very old, but not original. I texted tin medic and asked him some questions about his newsletters. Maybe he can add something helpful to the discussion.

The other equally perplexing open question for me is why, when submitting the TM application in 1956, would the Plomb Tool Company claim first use on Dec 13, 1946, when a "Toolmobile" appears and is advertised with that name in Catalog 17B (1939), and in every ensuing catalog through Catalog 19-R 2nd Printing (1946).

The only explanation I can think of here, as mentioned, but elaborating now, is that by "first use", the Plomb Tool Company was absent-mindedly referring to the first time they applied the name to the item itself as a decal, not to the first time they mentioned it in catalogs, ads, brochures, packaging, etc. This is a little squirrely, honestly, and it's based on a premise that I don't even know is true or not. I can tell you that no catalog images of the Toolmobile between 1939 and 1949 (4922-M), which is the latest catalog I have, show a "Toolmobile" decal on the unit itself. Just the Plomb Tools logos in the usual places. Someone (Brian, for instance) may know or be able to ascertain when they started putting a "Toolmobile" decal on them. If that was 1946 or thereabouts, maybe it's the answer.

 

[Smokeshow69]

Haha. Well, where he is going is nowhere fast. It's not so much a rabbit hole as a puzzling wall too massive to get around. And research is not going to resolve this.

There is zero question or doubt about when the "Toolmobile" TM was submitted (April 12, 1956) or granted (Nov 27, 1956) according to the USPTO. There are no records in the USPTO TSDR database of an earlier document and no indications or hints in the certificate or the proceedings or assignment pages showing or indicating previous actions on that TM. (BTW, it was renewed in 1976 and expired in 1997.)

Seeing them extoll the new TM in a Proto newsletter dated 1952 is anachronistic to the USPTO record.

Is it possible that the page announcing the "Toolmobile" TM in your Proto newsletter is from later than 1956, and someone (e.g., a clerk in a store, etc) mistakenly stapled it to the 1952 newsletter. In other words, maybe the staples are intact, and very old, but not original. I texted tin medic and asked him some questions about his newsletters. Maybe he can add something helpful to the discussion.

The other equally perplexing open question for me is why, when submitting the TM application in 1956, would the Plomb Tool Company claim first use on Dec 13, 1946, when a "Toolmobile" appears and is advertised with that name in Catalog 17B (1939), and in every ensuing catalog through Catalog 19-R 2nd Printing (1946).

The only explanation I can think of here, as mentioned, but elaborating now, is that by "first use", the Plomb Tool Company was absent-mindedly referring to the first time they applied the name to the item itself as a decal, not to the first time they mentioned it in catalogs, ads, brochures, packaging, etc. This is a little squirrely, honestly, and it's based on a premise that I don't even know is true or not. I can tell you that no catalog images of the Toolmobile between 1939 and 1949 (4922-M), which is the latest catalog I have, show a "Toolmobile" decal on the unit itself. Just the Plomb Tools logos in the usual places. Someone (Brian, for instance) may know or be able to ascertain when they started putting a "Toolmobile" decal on them. If that was 1946 or thereabouts, maybe it's the answer.

Hey Lugz, sorry if my staples comment was confusing. The staples i am referring to are in the binding/center fold section on the back of the pages. These mailers are only maybe 5 pages, folded in the middle and stapled, as opposed to a traditional , more heavy duty glue and fiber binding. This mailer shows no signs of any tampering and the staple binding is as it left the factory. The staples on this mailer is the same as the other 3 I have so that is why i am certain it is as it left the factory. I will have to check my plomb catalogs to see when they went from embossed logo to the painted on logo... I think i had done some research into that a few years back but i cant remember the exact timeline

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The staples on this mailer is the same as the other 3 I have so that is why i am certain it is as it left the factory.

Thanks. Saying they've TM'ed the name "Toolmobile" in a newsletter 4 years before they submitted their TM application is just mindboggling to me then.

I will have to check my plomb catalogs to see when they went from embossed logo to the painted on logo...

I'm not sure what relevance the Plomb Tool Co logos would have on this question, Smoke, embossed or painted. I'm referring to a decal that actually says "Toolmobile," such as the one shown in Pic #3 in JoCo's #550 post. When did they first start putting a decal like that on the Toolmobile itself? That's what we need to know.

 

[Smokeshow69]

Thanks. Saying they've TM'ed the name "Toolmobile" in a newsletter 4 years before they submitted their TM application is just mindboggling to me then.


I'm not sure what relevance the Plomb Tool Co logos would have on this question, Smoke, embossed or painted. I'm referring to a decal that actually says "Toolmobile," such as the one shown in Pic #3 in JoCo's #550 post. When did they first start putting a decal like that on the Toolmobile itself? That's what we need to know.

The tool mobile "decals" are painted on my tool mobile so i was wondering what the timeline was for them...i cant remember if the embossed tool mobiles also say tool mobile or if the just have the traditional plomb logo ?? So it sounds like we are both pondering the time line of the wording on the tool mobiles.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

If you're saying you have a Plomb Toolmobile with the word "Toolmobile" literally painted on it, when do you think that Toolmobile was made? Doesn't Brian have a baker's dozen of them? Irrespective of this question about "Toolmobile" decals, don't you Toolmobile guys have a general idea of the production timeline based on features? Square corners vs round. Pulls. Plomb logo (embossed, painted). Etc. If so, I was thinking you can line them up in chronological order based on those features, virtually, and in Brian's case even physically, and go, "all these have no 'Toolmobile' decal, or Plomb/Proto branding that does not include that word, and then boom, right here is the first one actually labeled with a 'Toolmobile' decal, or Plomb/Proto branding that includes that word, and we consider that Toolmobile to have been made around 19xx."

 

[Smokeshow69]

If you're saying you have a Plomb Toolmobile with the word "Toolmobile" literally painted on it, when do you think that Toolmobile was made? Doesn't Brian have a baker's dozen of them? Irrespective of this question about "Toolmobile" decals, don't you Toolmobile guys have a general idea of the production timeline based on features? Square corners vs round. Pulls. Plomb logo (embossed, painted). Etc. If so, I was thinking you can line them up in chronological order based on those features, virtually, and in Brian's case even physically, and go, "all these have no 'Toolmobile' decal, or Plomb/Proto branding that does not include that word, and then boom, right here is the first one actually labeled with a 'Toolmobile' decal, or Plomb/Proto branding that includes that word, and we consider that Toolmobile to have been made around 19xx."

Hey Lugz, When i am saying painted on, I mean the paint was applied at the pressteel factory.... not by someone after it was made... I have 1 painted logo tool mobile, Brian has 1 embossed logo tool mobile and Bmwrd0 has 1 painted logo that i found and traded him...Both mine and BMW's logos are exactly the same in appearance which is why i am confident they are factory. In terms of someone "making" one, pressteel never made a side cabinet with the lower vents like the tool mobile to my knowledge so i am confident that these are not reproductions....

In terms of the comparing them, you and i are saying the exact same thing but maybe are saying it in a different terms ? I plan to look at the catalogs and see how the logo changed over the years... i know the embossed logos came first, along with perforated drawers...then the painted logos and no embossed drawers came towards the end of their run. In terms of your question about the square corner versions, i have no clue what they look like aside from a few scanned catalog images?? I dont know of anyone who owns one aside from Mr.X and i have never been to his house to see it ??

 

[Private Lugnutz]

In terms of the comparing them, you and i are saying the exact same thing but maybe are saying it in a different terms ?

No, I don't think so. Unfortunately, we seem to be having a massive and ongoing Cool Hand Luke ("What we got here is a failure to communicate") moment.

For example, I have no idea why you are talking about factory vs reproduction.

Probably my fault. My apologies. Let me try one more time in a different and more direct way.

Do you guys have a timeline for Toolmobile production?

Meaning, can you identify, in general, early Plomb (say, 39-44) from middle Plomb (postwar) from early Proto (early 50's) from later Proto (late 50's) Toolmobiles? Note, that question has nothing to do with the trademark. Forget the trademark. It has to do with physical characteristics of the box itself, for example only, shape, corners, drawers, etc, if those things even changed over the years, and whether the logo (Plomb Tool Co) was embossed or painted etc etc. I am not asking you to explain the rationale to me or educate me on all the nuances of the features you have used to construct a timeline. I have no interest in re-examining the features or the timeline itself. I trust you guys have studied it. I am simply asking if such a timeline exists.

If the answer to that question is yes, then I am asking...

When, in that timeline, did the Toolmobile (i.e., the rolling cart itself) first have the name "Toolmobile" physically applied to it in some way?

Painted, decal, or whatever. Note, I am not asking about the logo (PLVMB TOOLS, PLVMB TOOL CO, etc). I am asking exclusively and specifically about the name "Toolmobile." Again, for example, JoCo's box upthread says "Proto Toolmobile." Did the Plomb era Toolmobile in 1939 actually include the word "Toolmobile" on it? Did the Plomb era Toolmobile in 1946 actually include the word "Toolmonile" on it?

When was the word "Toolmobile" actually put on the rolling cart that Plomb Tool Company called a Toolmobile in catalogs and ads? That is my question.

I plan to look at the catalogs and see how the logo changed over the years...

I can save you some time...

I can tell you that no catalog images of the Toolmobile between 1939 and 1949 (4922-M), which is the latest catalog I have, show a "Toolmobile" decal on the unit itself. Just the Plomb Tools logos in the usual places.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

My Plomb version with embossed logo doesn't bare the word "Toolmobile" anywhere on it.

 

[Smokeshow69]

No, I don't think so. Unfortunately, we seem to be having a massive and ongoing Cool Hand Luke ("What we got here is a failure to communicate") moment.

For example, I have no idea why you are talking about factory vs reproduction.

Probably my fault. My apologies. Let me try one more time in a different and more direct way.

Do you guys have a timeline for Toolmobile production?

Meaning, can you identify, in general, early Plomb (say, 39-44) from middle Plomb (postwar) from early Proto (early 50's) from later Proto (late 50's) Toolmobiles? Note, that question has nothing to do with the trademark. Forget the trademark. It has to do with physical characteristics of the box itself, for example only, shape, corners, drawers, etc, if those things even changed over the years, and whether the logo (Plomb Tool Co) was embossed or painted etc etc. I am not asking you to explain the rationale to me or educate me on all the nuances of the features you have used to construct a timeline. I have no interest in re-examining the features or the timeline itself. I trust you guys have studied it. I am simply asking if such a timeline exists.

If the answer to that question is yes, then I am asking...

When, in that timeline, did the Toolmobile (i.e., the rolling cart itself) first have the name "Toolmobile" physically applied to it in some way?

Painted, decal, or whatever. Note, I am not asking about the logo (PLVMB TOOLS, PLVMB TOOL CO, etc). I am asking exclusively and specifically about the name "Toolmobile." Again, for example, JoCo's box upthread says "Proto Toolmobile." Did the Plomb era Toolmobile in 1939 actually include the word "Toolmobile" on it? Did the Plomb era Toolmobile in 1946 actually include the word "Toolmonile" on it?

When was the word "Toolmobile" actually put on the rolling cart that Plomb Tool Company called a Toolmobile in catalogs and ads? That is my question.


I can save you some time...

I probably was communicating very well either But, i understood what you were saying and yes, i will peruse the catalogs to see what year range the words- Toolmobile were used I find it interesting that joco's tool mobile doesn't say tool mobile....my toolmobile does say- tool mobile- on it. I hadn't paid much attention to the wording on them but i will look for them this weekend and see what i can find..

 

[JoCoSawdust]

My Plomb version has the embossing. Do all of the painted logo Plombs have Toolmobile on them?

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I am not aware of any with toolmobile on them.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I will peruse the catalogs to see what year range the words- Toolmobile were used

Thanks. Remember I already looked at 1939 through 1949. I don't have any Plomb catalogs after that.

....my toolmobile does say- tool mobile- on it.

Okay. Good to know. That's what I've been asking! And yours is the painted logo, right? Please post photos or a link to where you've already posted photos if that's easier. Interested in seeing the whole unit, and then a close-up of the part that has "Toolmobile" on it. The question is when do you think yours was made? Could it possibly be 1946 or thereabouts or later but not earlier?

My Plomb version has the embossing. Do all of the painted logo Plombs have Toolmobile on them?

That's a good question. A related question is when did they go from embossed to painted logo? My impression heretofore, irrespective of this topic, has been that Plomb went from embossed to painted logos on toolboxes, in general, sometime during the mid to late part of the war. 1943 to 1944-ish. But I don't remember why that's my impression.

Where is Brian? Sleeping on the job? He's got 13 of them, no? They can't all be early or middle or late, right? There's a good chance he has the whole timeline sitting in his basement.

Just to keep this in context, the purpose of pinpointing the inclusion of the name is to see if that helps explain why Plomb cited 1946 as first use instead of 1939.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I am not aware of any with toolmobile on them.

Smoke just said his has it. And JoCo's Proto Toolmobile has the name integrated with the Proto name with the little (R) registered TM symbol in a single badge screwed on at the bottom (see post #550).

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Sorry missed smokes post. Saw the proto version.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Pulled this from the Pressteel thread, it belongs to Ben. So the Toolmobile marking predated the change to Proto. I'm far from a Plomb/Proto expert but if I'm not mistaken, at some point before the name change, the side louvers went away. If that's correct, that could help pinpoint when they started marking the boxes as tool mobiles.

 

[Smokeshow69]

Pulled this from the Pressteel thread, it belongs to Ben. So the Toolmobile marking predated the change to Proto. I'm far from a Plomb/Proto expert but if I'm not mistaken, at some point before the name change, the side louvers went away. If that's correct, that could help pinpoint when they started marking the boxes as tool mobiles.

Thanks for posting that Scott ! Now people can see that i am not making this up That was before i removed the paint drips and then got it cleaned up and buffed out!

In terms of your lower vent question- according to my reseach from my catalogs, those vents were always a part of the sides of the cabinet !

I will post my reseach tomorrow but it all boils down to this- we cant tell for certain when they started marking the first "streamlined" versions like mine above by just catalog pictures. The "streamlined" body style" was introduced in 1940 and continued to 1949/1950 ??I have either printed or electronic versions of the 40, 42, 42-47, 48, 49 catalogs.... They all show Plomb tools USA on the sides of the cabinet. With the 48' being the transitional catalog , it shows nothing on the sides of the cabinet....blank, nada, zilch... but i do believe oldman taylor has one of these dual mark/transitional tool mobiles and i need to find the picture i have of it....

Joco- i don't have a 1950 catalog but i have a 49' and a 1951....this newer version- was introduced I believe in 1950 or 1951. My 51' catalog doesn't make a huge deal about the new design so i think it was introduced in 1950 ???

****lugz- up until 1951- Plomb/proto uses the word tool mobile alot in advertising but there is no mention of copyright ***in my 1951 catalog, there is specific wording in the body of the text and the circle r appears next to the word. Apparently, something happend that it was big enough that they felt the need to extol their copy right of a word they had been using forever. My proto catalog database goes up to 1962 where Joco's proto tool mobile is still shown with the copy right notation and the emblem on the lower portion of the the roller**

I will compile more precise data and post it in my press steel thread and on here but hopefully this helps to answer some questions. Plomb doesnt depict any wording of tool mobile on the late 30's square corner versions fyi, but we know the artists took a bit of leeway in their depictions...

 

[Private Lugnutz]

So the Toolmobile marking predated the change to Proto.

Yup. Thanks. Helpful. Looking more and more like my theory about 1946 is a possibility.

**in my 1951 catalog, there is specific wording in the body of the text and the circle r appears next to the word.

If you mean the word "Toolmobile", please post a scan. That would jibe with your 1952 dated Proto flyer. But it clearly doesn't jibe with the United States Patent and Trademark Office.

 

[Provincial]

Here is mine. Both sides are the same. Rounded front corners, solid bottoms in the drawers.

 

[bmwrd0]

And mine also has rounded corners with solid drawer bottoms.

 

[Smokeshow69]

And mine also has rounded corners with solid drawer bottoms.

Hey I recognize that

 

[Smokeshow69]

Lugz- I am still researching but i am thinking the later tool mobiles that were made right before the dual mark transitional period were marked "tool mobile" with the painted logo on the sides.... The early style that is embossed like Joco's and Brians dont say "tool mobile"..... I believe plomb pulled the tool mobile name off them temporarily during the lawsuit period and then affixed it prominently to the newer/ waterloo style tool mobile once the copy right was granted.....however, i need some help in my research

I don't have access to the following catalogs- can someone please post the following tool mobile catalog pages from these years ?

1941, 43,44,45,46 (I believe these don't exist due to the war and the 42-47 catalog ?

1950

1963 and on ? I am trying to find out when the more modern tool mobile was discontinued by proto when they went to the more modern waterloo made stack that they made for other tool companies such as Mac and SK

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Lugz- I am still researching but i am thinking the later tool mobiles that were made right before the dual mark transitional period were marked "tool mobile" with the painted logo on the sides.... The early style that is embossed like Joco's and Brians dont say "tool mobile"...

That seems to be the case based on what has been posted so far.

I believe plomb pulled the tool mobile name off them temporarily during the lawsuit period and then affixed it prominently to the newer/ waterloo style tool mobile once the copy right was granted.....however, i need some help in my research

Trademark, not copyright. Two different things. But I am totally confused. How is the "Toolmobile" name relevant to the Plumb lawsuit, or vise versa?

I don't have access to the following catalogs- can someone please post the following tool mobile catalog pages from these years ?

1941, 43,44,45,46 (I believe these don't exist due to the war and the 42-47 catalog ?

If by "the 42-47 catalog" you're referring to the broad and erroneous date range that someone gave to Catalog 19-R FOURTH PRINTING a long time ago, as annotated on the Ed Buidinot site and then the Van Natta site, we have more of them now, thanks to tin medic, and I have worked out much more detailed dates for them. See attachment. I will make scans of the Toolmobile images from each of the catalogs in that chart later, but I am telling you, I looked at each one, and none of them bear the "Toolmobile" name. If you want them to compare physical features, I think they re-used the same images from catalog to catalog. If you still want them, maybe we should start a different thread. We're going to start bogging this thread down.

 

[Smokeshow69]

That seems to be the case based on what has been posted so far.


Trademark, not copyright. Two different things. But I am totally confused. How is the "Toolmobile" name relevant to the Plumb lawsuit, or vise versa?


If by "the 42-47 catalog" you're referring to the broad and erroneous date range that someone gave to Catalog 19-R FOURTH PRINTING a long time ago, as annotated on the Ed Buidinot site and then the Van Natta site, we have more of them now, thanks to tin medic, and I have worked out much more detailed dates for them. See attachment. I will make scans of the Toolmobile images from each of the catalogs in that chart later, but I am telling you, I looked at each one, and none of them bear the "Toolmobile" name. If you want them to compare physical features, I think they re-used the same images from catalog to catalog. If you still want them, maybe we should start a different thread. We're going to start bogging this thread down.

Lugz- good point on the broad ranges of the 19R catalog...i wasn't super confident of that broad span... I dont need them... If you looked at them and saw the same image that i did, I think we are ok.... the one catalog I would be interested would be a 1950 proto catalog if someone has that ? What model of "tool mobile" is depicted ?

Lugz- here is a couple shots from my 1951 Jobber size catalog. Notice the copyright R next to the wording! Something happened to make them go out of their way to lock this down.

 

[Rileysan]

Smoke sends me a text asking if I've been following this thread the past couple of days, so I pop in to check things out and all I see is that someone opened a can of worms and is trying to determine what order they fell out of the can!! Worse than that, y'all are dropping my name like I can fix this slimy mess.

In all seriousness, all I can say is that there's no definitive way to determine the exact timeline of the Toolmobile without catalogs being published each and every year, which Plomb did not do.

However, since I am wont to speculation, I posit that Plomb most likely changed from embossed logos to stenciled logos around the start of, or during WWII. I make this assumption because we know Plomb contracted with Pressteel to make rolling cabinets with embossed logos at least as far back as 1939. It would make no sense to end that practice unless the hard tooling wore out. If the tooling wore out after the government started rationing everything, they would have no choice but to simplify the design. If all the aforementioned speculation is true, then Toolmobiles could have changed from embossed logos to stenciled logos anywhere from December 8th, 1941, until the end of the war.

Your guess is as good as mine.

Brian

PS - Lugz, I've had 4 Toolmobiles in my possession. I sold one to Ben, had my daughter pick up another for Ben (which he traded to BMW) and have 2 more myself - one of which is a P&C Toolmobile. If you count the one I found in Eastern Washington last week, which was picked up by a member of the Plomb FB group after I posted it, I can take credit for the re-homing 5. So you were pretty darn close!

 

[Smokeshow69]

That seems to be the case based on what has been posted so far.


Trademark, not copyright. Two different things. But I am totally confused. How is the "Toolmobile" name relevant to the Plumb lawsuit, or vise versa?


If by "the 42-47 catalog" you're referring to the broad and erroneous date range that someone gave to Catalog 19-R FOURTH PRINTING a long time ago, as annotated on the Ed Buidinot site and then the Van Natta site, we have more of them now, thanks to tin medic, and I have worked out much more detailed dates for them. See attachment. I will make scans of the Toolmobile images from each of the catalogs in that chart later, but I am telling you, I looked at each one, and none of them bear the "Toolmobile" name. If you want them to compare physical features, I think they re-used the same images from catalog to catalog. If you still want them, maybe we should start a different thread. We're going to start bogging this thread down.

Smoke sends me a text asking if I've been following this thread the past couple of days, so I pop in to check things out and all I see is that someone opened a can of worms and is trying to determine what order they fell out of the can!! Worse than that, y'all are dropping my name like I can fix this slimy mess.

In all seriousness, all I can say is that there's no definitive way to determine the exact timeline of the Toolmobile without catalogs being published each and every year, which Plomb did not do.

However, since I am wont to speculation, I posit that Plomb most likely changed from embossed logos to stenciled logos around the start of, or during WWII. I make this assumption because we know Plomb contracted with Pressteel to make rolling cabinets with embossed logos at least as far back as 1939. It would make no sense to end that practice unless the hard tooling wore out. If the tooling wore out after the government started rationing everything, they would have no choice but to simplify the design. If all the aforementioned speculation is true, then Toolmobiles could have changed from embossed logos to stenciled logos anywhere from December 8th, 1941, until the end of the war.

Your guess is as good as mine.

Brian

PS - Lugz, I've had 4 Toolmobiles in my possession. I sold one to Ben, had my daughter pick up another for Ben (which he traded to BMW) and have 2 more myself - one of which is a P&C Toolmobile. If you count the one I found in Eastern Washington last week, which was picked up by a member of the Plomb FB group after I posted it, I can take credit for the re-homing 5. So you were pretty darn close!

Good plausible theory... the illustrations in the catalogs are horrible for determining Lugz question- when did plomb start putting tool mobile on them. I also wonder if perhaps the reason they went to flat sides was because they knew something large may be coming down the pipe ?? If the sides were flat, then they could easily put a proto sticker over the logos if forced to do so ? They did this with tool boards so this isnt a huge jump by any means. I suppose the only way to test this theory would be for someone to have a dual marked tool mobile and to remove the sticker? Below is an image I posted in the plomb thread. I believe it is a transitional sticker tool mobile but old man taylor hasnt confirmed it yet... And this doesnt say tool mobile either so it doesnt really answer lugz original question but i would say this is probably pretty close to the end before they went to the newer waterloo design.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

I know this doesn't help with the timeline sleuthing, but after a day of playing Tetris in the shop I found a both a spot and a job for the Proto.

 

[Rileysan]

but i would say this is probably pretty close to the end before they went to the newer waterloo design.

Which reminds me - these are the only photos I took of the Proto Toolmobile I saw last summer. Unfortunately, I didn't photograph the drawers but the cabinet was unquestionably made by Waterloo; the drawer slides being identical to the Craftsman cabinets from the early 60s

Brian

 

[Smokeshow69]

I know this doesn't help with the timeline sleuthing, but after a day of playing Tetris in the shop I found a both a spot and a job for the Proto.

I don't know if i feel trolled by this photo or if I feel like it adds to the thread ... Is it ok if I feel both ? Those sure look nice together!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Lugz- here is a couple shots from my 1951 Jobber size catalog. Notice the copyright R next to the wording!

I see it. Kinda hard to miss! I also saw the "Reg. U.S. Pat. Off." notice. It. makes. no. freaking. sense! I am totally baffled. If only to make everyone else as berserk as me about this, I will reiterate that the USPTO documents themselves - this is not just a record of it in a database, but the actual TM application, scanned and digitized, signed by Morris Pendleton, is dated April 12, 1956!

Something happened to make them go out of their way to lock this down.

I'm not so sure it was prompted by anything specific, other than them waking up to good business practices after their lawsuit fiasco. Plomb owned six (6) TM properties in their lifetime. They applied and were issued five (5) of those in a 5-year span between 1948 and 1952, three (3) of them - for "TAC", the Flying Lady logo, and a re-issue of Proto - all in the same year, and on the same day, in 1951. Now I am wondering if maybe they thought (mistakenly) they had submitted the "Toolmobile" TM application along with those, started using the (R) symbol and making the notices, and then had to apply for real when they discovered their mistake, in 1956.

PS - Lugz, I've had 4 Toolmobiles in my possession... So you were pretty darn close!

I have no idea where I got the number 13, but I know I saw it on here attributed to you for something. (I have to admit, I thought it was obsessive and excessive, even in the context of a site known for having a bunch of excessive obsessives, and even in the context of one famous for long round trips in his trusty Camry!) What Plomb items do you have qty 13 of? Or maybe someone was hyperbolizing as a joke and I took them seriously.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

I think I made a comment in jest about Brian having 13 Deluxe Rollers. He actually only has 12.

 

[Rileysan]

I have no idea where I got the number 13, but I know I saw it on here attributed to you for something. (I have to admit, I thought it was obsessive and excessive, even in the context of a site known for having a bunch of excessive obsessives, and even in the context of one famous for long round trips in his trusty Camry!) What Plomb items do you have qty 13 of? Or maybe someone was hyperbolizing as a joke and I took them seriously.

The hyperbole was from Smoke, who made the comment that I have 13 gray & red Craftsman rollers in my collection - which is a gross exaggeration. After trading a 9d roller to him, I have only nine gray & red rollers. I take the 5th on the topic of how many heritage (or older) rollers I have!

I think I made a comment in jest about Brian having 13 Deluxe Rollers. He actually only has 12.

If you substitute "heritage" for Deluxe, you might be right!

Remember: It's not hoarding if you're stuff is cool!

Brian

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Very true!!!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Haha!

 

[Provincial]

You have reached the goal if everyone thinks something is cool just because you have it!

 

[Smokeshow69]

You have reached the goal if everyone thinks something is cool just because you have it!

Rileysan is way beyond that Everytime i visit him, i always leave with a case of the "I wants"

 

[macgee]

Here's my Proto 9968 ToolMobile that I sold to a friend. Mine has the ball bearing slides for the drawers similar to a Lyon drawer bearing slide which I've never seen on other similar aged tool cabinets. It works well and can take a heavy load. Has Darnell casters. It came to me with a Wilton baby bullet vise mounted on it which I mounted onto a Pow-r-arm jr. It was a phenomenal day of buying at a local garage sale around the corner from my house, scored three full carloads of tools (full of starrett, Snap-on, Bergeon.....etc), it was a very good day, one of my top five scores! But that would be for another thread. The Proto cabinet was found full to the brim with tooling including the NOS rotary table hidden in the bottom section.

Sorry for getting off topic and long post.

Just some of the items that came with the Proto ToolMobile that day, funny enough there wasn't much Proto or Plumb tools in the haul.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Great haul! I found a pair of pliers this weekend so I'm seething with jealousy! Is that XYZ vise new in box???

 

[macgee]

Is that XYZ vise new in box???

Yes it was, the Craftsman was sealed in the box and shipped by Palmgren back in the day ('60-70's?) to a Sears craftsman distribution center in LA. Again, off topic; sorry. At least pic of it is on a Proto box