Pulling cable

[engineer2]

Is 8-3 UF-B cable pretty easy to pull? I'm looking and about 55 ft of EMT, an LB, and 30 ft of underground RMC with a couple of elbows, all in 3/4". I can always pull it in sections.

Wanted to go with more power to my shed, but #4 or #6 copper wire is damn expensive, so two 20 A circuits it is.

 

[seanc_mt]

Use wire lube.

 

[kTHREE]

a couple of elbows, all in 3/4".

Fun but not a deal breaker, so glad I graduated from wire puller.

 

[tyme2par4]

Have you looked at aluminum wire? Far cheaper than copper.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I would of ran a bigger pipe myself,but if that's what you've got to work with I guess your stuck with it.
Thhn/thwn would be a hell of a lot easier to pull in,either way I'd soap the hell out of the wire and make sure to make sure the guy pushing keeps up.
You might want to swap the lb for a j box to male things easier also.

 

[mm08822]

I would of ran a bigger pipe myself,but if that's what you've got to work with I guess your stuck with it.
Thhn/thwn would be a hell of a lot easier to pull in,either way I'd soap the hell out of the wire and make sure to make sure the guy pushing keeps up.
You might want to swap the lb for a j box to male things easier also.

^^^^^this. Also if you are only going with 20a circuits, you can drop down to #10's. Even 12's if you dont expect to really be close to 20a on either circuit.

I would not pull uf thru conduit. PIA.

You will also need a two pole cb and some type of disconnect in shed.

Gfci protection as well for receptacles.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

^^^^^this. Also if you are only going with 20a circuits, you can drop down to #10's. Even 12's if you dont expect to really be close to 20a on either circuit.

I would not pull uf thru conduit. PIA.

You will also need a two pole cb and some type of disconnect in shed.

Gfci protection as well for receptacles.

 

[cybrdyke]

...would of ran...

You're gonna rile up the grammar nazis ....


CD

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Somebody needs to do it,may as well be me !

 

[mobiledynamics]

Round THHN wire anyday ....in pipe.

 

[engineer2]

Thanks for the help!!
I have a full bottle of lube. Wife will be pushing or maybe pulling. She's done it before, but doesn't like working around a live panel.

I might do 3 #8 THHN's and a #10 ground (is #10 ground OK? I didn't look it up) and it might be cheaper. Ground wire is redundant with EMT.

I thought aluminum was a no-no underground. We are essentially Chicago electrical code (EMT) and aluminum wire is discouraged (except for service entrance). No permit unless my ******* neighbor calls.


2 pole 40 Amp in main panel.

I suppose I could run 3/4" though the basement and 1" outside, but if THHN pulls OK, 3/4 throughout it is.

LB will be where it exits the rim board. It is waterproof and I think it is appropriate for that.

RMC is so I only have to dig down 6" or so.

2 x 20 A QO's in shed, ground rod, GFCI's according to code.

Trying to keep cost and PITA factor in check.

 

[tyme2par4]

Aluminum SER is not allowed underground, but Al THWN or MHF is used underground all the time.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Have you looked at aluminum wire? Far cheaper than copper.

8-3 UF-B is $1.55/ft
2-2-2-4 MHF is $1.14/ft

At the OP distance the MHF should be good for 90A.

 

[mobiledynamics]

10 G is good up to 6 wire 50 fwiw. you're good on that

 

[pentavolvo]

If you only intend to put 2 20 amp breakers in she'd then put a 20 in panel and pull 12 gauge, 10 if you want

 

[Bert_]

No one has adressed the fact that 8-3 UF isn't going to fit in 3/4" conduit of any kind. UF is flat, I would say 8-3 is an inch or more wide.

As others have mentioned if you have a complete conduit from one panel to the other, individual conductors is the way to go.
Copper and aluminum can both be run underground as long as you use the correct type of wire.
Aluminum is preferred by many due to it's low cost and if you pay attention to a few small details it is just as reliable as copper.

If you do choose to use aluminum I would use either thwn or xhhw depending on what you have available. Since you are planning on conduit the whole way I wouldn't use a cable like the mobile home feeder since it will be harder to pull, but many do pull it into conduit regardless. Usually individual conductors and MHF are pretty comparable as far a price goes.

 

[ducksface]

I quit pulling u less forced.
Too easy to pull it as you build conduit.
Do ten feet, glue, do ten feet. So easy.

 

[Bert_]

I quit pulling u less forced.
Too easy to pull it as you build conduit.
Do ten feet, glue, do ten feet. So easy.

That completely defeats the point of running conduit. If you have to put the wire in as you assemble it then you probably won't be able to get it back out or new wire in if the need arises.

It is against code for that very reason.

 

[ducksface]

This is advice to a homeowner on a small project.
If you think having the wife pull and a fail happens, and There is an all time easy, no fail way to get that wire in, is a code violation instead of a common sense type fix....

And, per your scenario:
If he can't get it out because of a bend, he couldn't have pulled it in the first place.

 

[mm08822]

This is advice to a homeowner on a small project.
If you think having the wife pull and a fail happens, and There is an all time easy, no fail way to get that wire in, is a code violation instead of a common sense type fix....

And, per your scenario:
If he can't get it out because of a bend, he couldn't have pulled it in the first place.

Op said he was running grc so he only had to dig 6".

You think spinning grc into couplings and spinning 90's on it is gonna save the wires

I'll meet you 1/2 way with a drag line but that's it.

Op needs to finalize what he wants (panel/no panel, size, ......) and provide a sketch of the job and/or pics and people here will detail out what he needs to do it correctly and easily. That simple!

 

[ducksface]

I'll take half way.
Thanks.

I use mule tape for just about every job imaginable. I keep a couple hundred feet in each vehicle.
Love that stuff.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Is 8-3 UF-B cable pretty easy to pull? I'm looking and about 55 ft of EMT, an LB, and 30 ft of underground RMC with a couple of elbows, all in 3/4". I can always pull it in sections.

Wanted to go with more power to my shed, but #4 or #6 copper wire is damn expensive, so two 20 A circuits it is.

You do realize that #8 NM is rated for 40a?

 

[RivennHewn]

I'll take half way.
Thanks.

I use mule tape for just about every job imaginable. I keep a couple hundred feet in each vehicle.
Love that stuff.

I just picked up a spool from a job where it was in the dumpster. Wonderful stuff to have in the truck box.

 

[ducksface]

I didn't know about it until about 30 years ago.
The Tucson power company let their guys make only one pull with it and then discarded it.
An uncle brought me a couple of hundred feet and it's been a staple ever since.

I use amsteel for small diameter home/offroad needs and mule for others.
Paracord is bandwagoneer junk compared to those two.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I don't know why anyone would use UF-B if the are laying conduit. #8 THWN is $0.33/ft (times 4) so at $1.32/ft it is less than 8-3 UF-B.

Not sure if you can pull 4 #8 through a 3/4" conduit or if you need 1".

 

[Norcal]

I don't know why anyone would use UF-B if the are laying conduit. #8 THWN is $0.33/ft (times 4) so at $1.32/ft it is less than 8-3 UF-B.

Not sure if you can pull 4 #8 through a 3/4" conduit or if you need 1".

Why would you suggest 4 8 AWG conductors? Only 3 -8 AWG, & 1-10 AWG green is needed, but the neutral conductor has to be white, taping a grounded (neutral) smaller then 4 AWG is prohibited.

 

[engineer2]

Only 3 -8 AWG, & 1-10 AWG green is needed, but the neutral conductor has to be white,

That's what I'm planning.
I've abandoned the idea of UF. BTW, UF comes flat or round.
Stranded THHN is cheaper and should be easier to pull.
95 foot total distance, so #8 is the recommended size.
You can put 6 #8 in 3/4" so I should be OK.
Two 120 VAC 20 Amp circuits.
No plans for a 220 outlet, but I wouldn't rule it out in the future with the appropriate changes.
Had one of those 4am thoughts and someone here also brought it up: If I have 90° elbows on each end of the GRC, how the hell do I screw it all together? One end goes under the shed the other under a walkway so I can't just lay it in the trench. I'll have to find a GRC union, but doubt any big box store sells them.

 

[mm08822]

That's what I'm planning.
I've abandoned the idea of UF. BTW, UF comes flat or round.
Stranded THHN is cheaper and should be easier to pull.
95 foot total distance, so #8 is the recommended size.
You can put 6 #8 in 3/4" so I should be OK.
Two 120 VAC 20 Amp circuits.
No plans for a 220 outlet, but I wouldn't rule it out in the future with the appropriate changes.
Had one of those 4am thoughts and someone here also brought it up: If I have 90° elbows on each end of the GRC, how the hell do I screw it all together? One end goes under the shed the other under a walkway so I can't just lay it in the trench. I'll have to find a GRC union, but doubt any big box store sells them.

Your description of your job scope has been confusing to me and others.
You are putting in a subpanel and then from that you are running two 120 VAC 20 Amp circuits.
You also need 2 rods and gfci's on recept ckts.
Max 6 throws of hand for the disconnecting means.

 

[aka Larry]

Thanks for the help!!
I have a full bottle of lube. Wife will be pushing or maybe pulling. She's done it before

Sorry, but I couldn't resist.....

 

[mm08822]

Sorry, but I couldn't resist.....

I stopped myself 6 times

 

[dogdog]

I ran 7 or 8 #6 THNN wires or was it THWN wires in a 1 1/2 GRC outdoor it is fine even with one LB... the other 90deg are sweeps elbows....it is fine... the painful one is when those elbows are too close to each other.... within less than 4 or 5 foot before another turn.... that section is painful no matter what lubes you used... so plan your wiring with the minimum amount of bends close to each other..... if possible...

 

[nh_yota]

If you only need two 20A circuits just run 12-3 or 10-3 for a MWBC and share the neutral. Anything more is overkill.

 

[engineer2]

Sorry, but I couldn't resist....I stopped myself 6 times

Just seeing if you guys are paying attention... and you are.

Sketch to help 'splain things. Want it to be to code. 1 ground rod is the norm around here because of our wet soil. Thanks for everyone's help so far. #8 because of the distance, per code, I believe. Possible future upgrades too.

 

[theoldwizard1]

2-2-2-4 MHF is $1.14/ft

I don't know why anyone would use UF-B if the are laying conduit. #8 THWN is $0.33/ft (times 4) so at $1.32/ft it is less than 8-3 UF-B.

Okay, make that #8 THWN is $0.33/ft (times 3) + 100' of #10 @$22 (not sold by the foot) = $106. For a couple of bucks more (plus cost for large conduit) OP could have 2-2-2-4 MHF. Sound like penny wise and pound foolish.

 

[engineer2]

My local pricing for 100 ft:
THHN: 3x#8 + 1x#10 = $130.
2-2-2-4 MHF: @ 1.62 /ft = $162, but then I can have 100 amp service which is probably overkill.
Just need to run a table saw or a miter saw and some lights and maybe a small heater. No plans to do welding in a wooden shed.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Just seeing if you guys are paying attention... and you are.

Sketch to help 'splain things. Want it to be to code. 1 ground rod is the norm around here because of our wet soil. Thanks for everyone's help so far. #8 because of the distance, per code, I believe. Possible future upgrades too.

Are you saying you need #8 for 2x 20a(20a on each leg) circuits because of 55' distance?

If so, youre way off.

@ 55' you should be able to do 50a with #8 cu no problem.

BTW there is no NEC code for a certain maximum distance or voltage drop.

Maybe you have a local amendment??

My local pricing for 100 ft:
THHN: 3x#8 + 1x#10 = $130.
2-2-2-4 MHF: @ 1.62 /ft = $162, but then I can have 100 amp service which is probably overkill.
Just need to run a table saw or a miter saw and some lights and maybe a small heater. No plans to do welding in a wooden shed.

#2 al is limited to 90a in this application.

 

[engineer2]

95 ft, not 55 ft. I used a few online tables. Google "wire sizing calculator". Maybe they are too conservative.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

95 ft, not 55 ft. I used a few online tables. Google "wire sizing calculator". Maybe they are too conservative.

I do calcs by hand.

@95' and 50a on #8 would have 3.1% drop so it would be fine.

 

[engineer2]

Thanks for your input. Project has been but on hold. We just found out our income tax plus property taxes are going up $300 per month. Welcome to Illinois where you get the shaft so state employees can have a glorious retirement, or I'm making a new car payment for some state employee.

 

[manwithtools]

Thanks for your input. Project has been but on hold. We just found out our income tax plus property taxes are going up $300 per month. Welcome to Illinois where you get the shaft so state employees can have a glorious retirement, or I'm making a new car payment for some state employee.

Vote with your feet. It might be time to get the hell out of that state like so many others are doing. Most are leaving for the same reasons you just stated. If they don't turn things around soon, your property values are going to plummet - just like Detroit did. Now might be the time to sell and relocate before the values crash. I take it by your posting name that you are an engineer, they are in demand everywhere right now.

The unfunded pension liabilities are beyond comprehension, their system is going to implode at some point and then everyone looses.