Pulling ethernet

[JTSmithson]

Garage is about 25-35 feet away from house, there is electrical off the house panel going to the garage thru buried conduit. Should I send a snake thru from one end to fish the ethernet? Most likely raw cable that I'll put the end on after I pull it.

If someone has advice or a better idea, please share.

thanks,

 

[koditten]

Can you get a shop vac on one end? **** a small line thru the conduit then pull the cable.

KO

 

[snorky18]

Is this just for internet?

If so, my better idea is a $45 wireless router

 

[48Classic]

Also if is sharing the same conduit as the electrical, I would not recommend pulling. Would also suggest a wireless router. If you have a separate conduit then yes I would pull a cable... Pull 2 lines if you want the house phone in your shop... 1 for network and 1 for phone...

 

[Ray916MN]

You can also buy direct burial Cat5 or Cat6 and just bury it like you would coax.

 

[-Brent-]

Or you could run your ethernet over the power lines. There are a few good kits out there.

 

[48Classic]

One of my suppliers, Sale on underground cable... http://www.americantechsupply.com/undergroundcat5ecables.htm,This $159.00/1000 Foot HEAVY DUTY Outdoor Rated Underground Cable Special Cat5E

 

[jonzer12]

Ethernet over power is the way to go, you can a starter kit for $50 bucks so long as you have a single phase throughout the home and garage. If you are going to pull cable get plenum rated cable and have at her.

 

[bdamico]

tie it to a mouse and put cheese on other end of pipe

 

[Ray916MN]

Just realized you're in MN. If you want direct burial cable I'll give you what you need. I bought a 1000' for the 400' I needed so I have 600' sitting on a spool in my workshop.

 

[madosta]

Go direct burial CAT5e + for the most bandwidth and solid connection.

I've trenched some CAT5 non direct burial and it's been fine for 6 years now at 100meg.

 

[Gary S]

You don't want ethernet (low voltage) in the same conduit as AC line voltage. You are asking for interference on the ethernet doing it that way. The right way is to dig a trench, bury another conduit, and put your low voltage wiring in there.
Direct burial *****. What do you plan to do in a few years when Cat 5 and Cat 6 are replaced with fiber, or whatever replaces fiber?
Do it right this time so you don't have to do it over next time.

 

[rlitman]

Yep, 2 issues.
1) you cannot put ethernet in the same conduit as your power.
2) underground conduit is a wet location. You need special wet rated cat5 wire, or it will fail in a few years.

 

[sands35]

+1 on new conduit.

It's against code to put low and high voltage into the same conduit. It would be bad to have a short between the low and high voltage lines.

With new conduit, it makes it trivial to pull an RG6 or fiber later.

Ethernet over powerline is the simplest solution. Worst case, you'll need to put in a new outlet near your router so you have a home run right into the breaker box. Also a dedicated breaker and one outlet in the garage for a simple run. Powerline has issues when you have lots of outlets/devices on a branch.

A wireless bridge would work, but you get security and connection integrity issues.

 

[madosta]

You don't want ethernet (low voltage) in the same conduit as AC line voltage. You are asking for interference on the ethernet doing it that way. The right way is to dig a trench, bury another conduit, and put your low voltage wiring in there.
Direct burial *****. What do you plan to do in a few years when Cat 5 and Cat 6 are replaced with fiber, or whatever replaces fiber?
Do it right this time so you don't have to do it over next time.

Agree.

Out of curiosity, why do you say direct burial *****?

Verified CAT6a cu sustains 10Gb/s and is a major medium in high bandwidth switches. I love fiber but copper is still cranking!

 

[JTSmithson]

I know wireless would work. I'm looking to do this sooner than later and i'm not tearing up frozen ground here in MN this winter to do it, that's why I wanted to snake in my existing conduit.

this was gonna be a "project while it's cold out" project.

if it's against code, i'll keep that in consideration, but that hasn't stopped me before. ha.

so it's coming down to finding a good wireless router/range extender (suggest if you got something good) or pulling an out of code wire thru an existing conduit.

 

[madosta]

I know wireless would work. I'm looking to do this sooner than later and i'm not tearing up frozen ground here in MN this winter to do it, that's why I wanted to snake in my existing conduit.

this was gonna be a "project while it's cold out" project.

if it's against code, i'll keep that in consideration, but that hasn't stopped me before. ha.

so it's coming down to finding a good wireless router/range extender (suggest if you got something good) or pulling an out of code wire thru an existing conduit.

You wont be cutting your grass will you, just run a patch cord out there and don't let the wifey see it!

 

[Gary S]

Out of curiosity, why do you say direct burial *****?
!

If he had a low voltage conduit in the ground today, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Direct burial is a mistake, plain and simple.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I know wireless would work. I'm looking to do this sooner than later and i'm not tearing up frozen ground here in MN this winter to do it, that's why I wanted to snake in my existing conduit.

this was gonna be a "project while it's cold out" project.

if it's against code, i'll keep that in consideration, but that hasn't stopped me before. ha.

so it's coming down to finding a good wireless router/range extender (suggest if you got something good) or pulling an out of code wire thru an existing conduit.

Do not pull the CAT5e through the electrical conduit. You will have issues with 60hz electrical noise as well as packet and bandwidth issues. There's a reason why its not done and its not just because of code! I've been doing electrical and telecom for years and have had issues with existing cables that were run with or next to electrical lines, fl lights, etc.

Either do wireless, wait til it thaws out and run conduit, or try a powerline network adapter! The adapters don't give great bandwidth but they do work!

 

[46Nash]

I ran a second conduit to my garage which is getting a coax cable put in. This way I can get internet and TV over the same cable.

For internet to work, you atleast one of these and a compatible cable system. I use Verizon FIOS which works with moca.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0022NHMZY/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Just put one of these in the garage after linking the coax into your house. Now you can plug cat 5 into this devise to network with your house. Just make sure you have 2.4ghz splitters for your coax or it may not work.

 

[mrjaw14]

I am a network administrator for a company with about 1,000 employees. For that short of a run, I would absolutely run a 2nd conduit and run wet rated cat5e. You cannot run low voltage and hi voltage in the same conduit, that is a code violation for safety reasons. 30ft run is no big deal, you could do that on a sat easily. That'll work to 1 gigabit or 1000 mbps

If that just is not an option, I would recommend the power line adapters as others have mentioned. you will be severely limited in bandwidth though.

a 3rd option is to use a wireless range extender to amplify your house's wifi, but again this is a lower speed solution.

Optimally you will put in a cheap 1/2 or 3/4 conduit, run cat5e, and take a wireless router to the garage, put it in "bridging" mode, and that will extend your wireless network out to the garage through the Ethernet cable, as well as give you 4 wired ports from the built in switch. You can make the SSID different than the one in the house so that your devices in the house don't try to roam onto the garage network. Secure them both with the same WEP or WPA2 key

Be forewarned though, electronics don't like extreme heat or cold and might flake out. this will affect any of the 3 solutions though.

Happy Networking

 

[CNGsaves]

+1 on running a separate buried plastic conduit for the internet/CATV/phone needs of the garage - - bury in separate trench at least a foot over from the electrical trench (say 18 inches underground). Benefit of having separate conduit is you can add other things later like hardwired security system, intercom, etc.

Easiest method would be to install pull string as you bury the 10 ft sticks of sch40 plastic conduit. 1 inch might do it but why not future proof and make it bigger like 1 1/2" that will give you plenty of room. Also, RG6 cable (ie CATV) is sturdy enough to push itself through the conduit if you forget to install the pull string. Worst case if conduit already installed with no pull string, then attach "mouse" to pull string and **** through the conduit with a shopvac at the other end.

Since wire is cheap and I've got plenty of it, my plan is to pull all 3 wire types thru the low voltage buried conduit (ie Cat5e, RG6, & telco 4 wire).

 

[APEowner]

I use direct bury CAT5 in this type of application and just direct bury it. It doesn't need to be deep. 6-8 inches just like cable is fine. You can just leave it on the ground till spring.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Optimally you will put in a cheap 1/2 or 3/4 conduit, run cat5e, and take a wireless router to the garage, put it in "bridging" mode, and that will extend your wireless network out to the garage through the Ethernet cable, as well as give you 4 wired ports from the built in switch. You can make the SSID different than the one in the house so that your devices in the house don't try to roam onto the garage network. Secure them both with the same WEP or WPA2 key

Bingo...thats what I'm going to be doing when I get to it. I installed in a 1" Conduit when I put my power in, will pull 2 Cat5e's because I was given a 272' of it and I only need 115 to make a single run..rather then waste it....
Where my garage is located from the house, my WiFi signal is super spotty...depends on weather, where i'm standing, etc...So when I'm in there I actually need to shut off WiFi on my phone otherwise it plain *****..with a Bridge I'll extend my network over from the house into the Garage and then stream Pandora or my MP3 collection

 

[-Brent-]

Since wire is cheap and I've got plenty of it, my plan is to pull all 3 wire types thru the low voltage buried conduit (ie Cat5e, RG6, & telco 4 wire).

Seems archaic to go with Telco 4, no? Why not run 2 lengths of Cat5 since you can wire a phone ******** the other if you wanted and then convert it to something else, like HDMI, in the future.

That works, right?

 

[sjlee]

Is this just for internet?

If so, my better idea is a $45 wireless router

Agreed. A wireless router will be much easier to setup than messing around with trying to figure out how to run cables.

 

[CNGsaves]

You're right that telco 4 wire is ancient but hey I've got it, so free. Throwing in a old school telco jack in garage because now I'm using telco landline wiring with Magic Jack for super cheap landline through internet. Can't beat unlimited minutes for phone or fax at $19.95 a year.

Will likely pull multiple Cat5e runs as I've got plenty leftover of 1,000 ft roll when I completely ran homeruns in old house that ex got in divorce. If nothing else, the telco4 or extra Cat5e run to garage can serve as my pull wire for future as things change. Thus, my costs are nothing except for 3 sticks of plastic buried conduit and some shovel time.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Agreed. A wireless router will be much easier to setup than messing around with trying to figure out how to run cables.

IF you can get signal there. See my post above....I already have wireless in the house so without a reliable signal in the garage...I had to pull wire if I ever wanted any interweb connectivity.

I'd put a conduit and forget the direct bury CAT5, with technology things change...in a year you may want to pull a couple pairs of Fiber. Or in my case, if my trees out back ever grow to the point it will block my DirecTV line of sight, I'll mount a new dish on the garage and pull Coax thru that conduit to the house. In reverse, if you ever want Cable/Sat out in the garage no problem if you got a conduit.

 

[Falcon67]

>arage is about 25-35 feet away from house,
X3 or 4, wireless. A good router is likely cheaper than any ethernet run. My bench is 65~70' from the router through two sheetrock walls, one brick wall and a thin concrete wall. That's about 20 dB of signal kill. I get a good enough connection in the shop on A band. The alarm system also uses wireless (it's own) without issue.

I looked at ethernet cable and it was way more than I wanted to pay. And we don't use land lines, so there's no need for a phone cable.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

>arage is about 25-35 feet away from house,
X3 or 4, wireless. A good router is likely cheaper than any ethernet run. My bench is 65~70' from the router through two sheetrock walls, one brick wall and a thin concrete wall. That's about 20 dB of signal kill. I get a good enough connection in the shop on A band.

My bad...shouldnt be a problem then.
My Router is in my basement, and 100' from the closest end of the building, 150 to the rear of it. If I'm on a ladder hanging insulation I get signal, if i'm changing the oil in my tractor out in the Equipment bay...Just enough signal to constantly hunt between 3G and WiFi

 

[Falcon67]

My bad...shouldnt be a problem then.
My Router is in my basement, and 100' from the closest end of the building, 150 to the rear of it. If I'm on a ladder hanging insulation I get signal, if i'm changing the oil in my tractor out in the Equipment bay...Just enough signal to constantly hunt between 3G and WiFi

Yep - you are about the limit of most wifi equipment at the close end. Once your signal strength in a place gets to around -70dBm (meaningless to most folks) or worse, reception gets spotty. I can stand in our grandkids driveway @ 400' downrange and "see" our SSID but can't connect.

And every building/layout/arrangement is different. Chain link is a good defense against 2.4 Ghz (G band) signals. We have a building at work that used to be the ROTC building and had a shooting range. The interior walls are all concrete block and the big area that used to be the range has block filled with sand from floor to roof. Just about every room needs it's own access point to get any usable signal.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Yep - you are about the limit of most wifi equipment at the close end. Once your signal strength in a place gets to around -70dBm (meaningless to most folks) or worse, reception gets spotty. I can stand in our grandkids driveway @ 400' downrange and "see" our SSID but can't connect.

And every building/layout/arrangement is different. Chain link is a good defense against 2.4 Ghz (G band) signals. We have a building at work that used to be the ROTC building and had a shooting range. The interior walls are all concrete block and the big area that used to be the range has block filled with sand from floor to roof. Just about every room needs it's own access point to get any usable signal.

I'm a techie by trade...but due to the nature of my work, its pretty much wire only because of security concerns. So while I know what your talking about, because I do this **** all day long, when I go home its the last thing I want to do....Not just Building layout and materials can cause signal issues, LEAVES as in the green things on trees are one of the worst....not an issue for many people unless you have an indoor jungle.

 

[Vinci]

A wireless bridge (which essentially replaces a wire with a wireless connection, under $50) would get you a hard-wire connection in your shop without having to bury any wires. I have set bridges up at work in the past, and they are reasonably reliable, as long as you use decent equipment.

If your existing home wireless runs over 5GHz, you will have fewer potential interference issues with your bridge than if it runs over 2.4GHz, but that isn't a deal-breaker.

 

[SiGmA_X]

Is this just for internet?

If so, my better idea is a $45 wireless router

Wireless is NEVER a better idea... Wireless *****! Use it in-building as needed, but don't use it between buildings.

However, I think I have read Ethernet cables need their own conduit, so I think a new conduit and Cat5e/6 pulled is the best option for you.

 

[Gary S]

I have my entire house and garage wired for internet with Cat5E. I have never turned on my wireless router simply because wireless isn't nearly as secure as wire, and it never can be. That is just common sense.
My Wife runs a home based business that doesn't allow wireless networks for security reasons............no exceptions, and that meets my requirements perfectly.

I'm retired now, but I spent my entire working a career in the computer and electronics industry where I was the "repair guy", the guy who instructed computer illiterate people how to do simple tasks on their computers, and the IT guy who built and made their system work. After a lifetime of that, wireless has no place in my life.

 

[SiGmA_X]

You must not use any new technology. WiFi is essential for most people, be it a smart phone or tablet, or even just a laptop. WPA2 is pretty secure, and as an IT person, you should understand network isolation better than I do...

 

[bobscogin]

When burying 60hz power and data cable in separate conduit underground, what's the recommended minimum distance between them?

Bob

 

[Gary S]

You must not use any new technology. WiFi is essential for most people, be it a smart phone or tablet, or even just a laptop. WPA2 is pretty secure, and as an IT person, you should understand network isolation better than I do...

No Wifi is essential or secure. WPA2 is easy to crack. When you are in an industry that requires top security, wireless is not an option. Even Homeland Security learned that fast when their wireless got them into trouble. When the rest of the world learns that, hackers will have a much more difficult life, and your personal data will be much safer.
If you don't care about security, keep using wireless. If you want to be on the top with security, turn it off.

 

[Rob73]

I am with madosta. Run a line out there till spring. Cat 5 is fairly cheap. Wireless is good, but you wont regret hardwiring it. I have had some regular indoor cat 5 buried in conduit for 5 years or so about 10 feet of it run up a pole exposed to the elements. No issues with it so far. If I do have any trouble, a 1000' box is like 75 bucks & I have like 700' feet left. It easy enough to pull a new one and throw a few ends on.

Dont get me wrong, wireless is cool too. I have a 500' wireless link that works great. But, it seems like there is always some device that doesnt want to work with the security setup I have. Or I never can remember that darn passkey! In my opinion, I would run the cat 5 wire, even if I had to bury it an inch into the ground with a spade. It'll last quite some time & that stuff changes so fast, you may want to run another type of wire before that one fails anyway....

Rob

 

[Honest Bob]

If its just for a computer to surf the web I say may as well run a cable through and see if it works well enough. I had a cat5 run through my power conduit by the previous owner for a phone but I converted it for computer use and it serves its purpose.