Pulling Mobile Home Feeder and Conduit Orientation

[Model A Fan]

I'm finally ready to pull wire after getting everything done. I have Mobile Home Feeder and want to know if I have to pull all four cables at once or if I can pull them individually since they're essentially "giant THHN".

Also, which direction do I pull them? Do I pull TOWARD the main breaker panel from the sub-panel or FROM the main panel TOWARD the sub-panel? I have belled pvc conduit. Do I pull down the conduit out the bell end or into the bell end?

Thanks!

 

[larry4406]

Enter the female exiting the male.

I pulled mine all at once.

 

[nadogail]

Enter the female exiting the male.

I pulled mine all at once.

Use cable lube generously.

 

[sparky 1971]

Pull whatever way you think will be easiest, but all at the same time without untwisting them.

If there are LB's involved, try to pull in the long side, then go out the short side. Trying to go the other way makes it a pain to get the wires in it. You might need to untwisting to go through an LB if it goes right in to the panel. I had a 100 foot pull today with #8's that had five 90's and four LB's. I had to go backwards I through one LB and it sucked.

 

[Model A Fan]

Enter the female exiting the male.

I pulled mine all at once.

Is there a particular reason not to pull them individually? I've now seen other threads talking about not pulling them individually (and uncoiling the cables). I'm hoping pulling the wires all together isn't a huge difficulty.

Use cable lube generously.

I'll make sure to lube them up well! Can I just pour some cable lube down the LB and have the wires run through it at the bottom of the bend? Is it bad to leave cable lube sort of "pooled" in the conduit? If its not harmful to the wire and conduit, I may just dump some in and feed it from the side where the lube is.

Pull whatever way you think will be easiest, but all at the same time without untwisting them.

If there are LB's involved, try to pull in the long side, then go out the short side. Trying to go the other way makes it a pain to get the wires in it. You might need to untwisting to go through an LB if it goes right in to the panel. I had a 100 foot pull today with #8's that had five 90's and four LB's. I had to go backwards I through one LB and it sucked.

I'll rearrange the belled conduit to be oriented so I can pull from the main breaker to the sub-panel. The conduit went together pretty well, I'm still dry fitting everything and just had to do a hole-saw hole through my barn wall.

Can I use a heat gun to heat the conduit to "persuade" it to line up with the hole in the barn wall? I put a hole as close to the conduit as I could, but the stud/sill plate got in the way so it is not exactly lined up.

 

[mike93lx]

Pull them together. Not only will separating them be a pain in the *** and a waste of time, but the pull will be harder.

Lots of lube, one person pushing, one person pulling. Even easier if you have a third to manage the spool

 

[jeepxj]

Pull them together. Not only will separating them be a pain in the *** and a waste of time, but the pull will be harder.

Lots of lube, one person pushing, one person pulling. Even easier if you have a third to manage the spool

pfft

this is GJ.


ok what ya do it head to the rental store. get yourself a mini excavator for the day. set it up so one track is off the ground. use the track to pull the mule tape.

then when it rips everything apart you can use the mini ex to retrench in new 4" triple conduits.

 

[alfredeneuman]

In the first photo there's some white pipe at the top.
Is that conduit or water pipe?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

pfft

this is GJ.


ok what ya do it head to the rental store. get yourself a mini excavator for the day. set it up so one track is off the ground. use the track to pull the mule tape.

then when it rips everything apart you can use the mini ex to retrench in new 4" triple conduits.

i guess they were too cheap to rent or buy a pulling machine.

also looks like theyre using rope instead of mule tape. good way to burn a hole in your sweeps

 

[sparky 1971]

Is there a particular reason not to pull them individually? I've now seen other threads talking about not pulling them individually (and uncoiling the cables). I'm hoping pulling the wires all together isn't a huge difficulty.

I'll make sure to lube them up well! Can I just pour some cable lube down the LB and have the wires run through it at the bottom of the bend? Is it bad to leave cable lube sort of "pooled" in the conduit? If its not harmful to the wire and conduit, I may just dump some in and feed it from the side where the lube is.

I'll rearrange the belled conduit to be oriented so I can pull from the main breaker to the sub-panel. The conduit went together pretty well, I'm still dry fitting everything and just had to do a hole-saw hole through my barn wall.

Can I use a heat gun to heat the conduit to "persuade" it to line up with the hole in the barn wall? I put a hole as close to the conduit as I could, but the stud/sill plate got in the way so it is not exactly lined up.

You can lube however you want to. If I'm by myself I lube up the first couple of feet of wire and try to shove it in the pipe. Then occasionally go lube up a few more feet. Just don't let lubed up wire touch the ground., it's a dirt magnet.
You can use a heat gun, but it's going to take a while. Do your best to block the wind and have water ready to cool the pipe off or you're going to have to hold it for what seems to be forever.

 

[dcg9381]

I'll make sure to lube them up well! Can I just pour some cable lube down the LB and have the wires run through it at the bottom of the bend? Is it bad to leave cable lube sort of "pooled" in the conduit? If its not harmful to the wire and conduit, I may just dump some in and feed it from the side where the lube is.

I pulled mine together. In 2" conduit, no problem. It's WAAAY easier if you have a helper. Haven't done it with 1.5".

I like to "cap" my conduit and then there is a spray lubricant that expands, I spray it till it comes out the other end. I may add additional as I slide the cable in.

Conduit is considered "wet" space. No harm in leaving lube in there, I think it dries out anyway.

Did I mention using a helper? Helper feeds while you pull.

How far you going?

 

[mike93lx]

pfft

this is GJ.


ok what ya do it head to the rental store. get yourself a mini excavator for the day. set it up so one track is off the ground. use the track to pull the mule tape.

then when it rips everything apart you can use the mini ex to retrench in new 4" triple conduits.

If it's stupid and it works, is it still stupid?

 

[Model A Fan]

Pull them together. Not only will separating them be a pain in the *** and a waste of time, but the pull will be harder.

Lots of lube, one person pushing, one person pulling. Even easier if you have a third to manage the spool

Sounds good, I was just figuring separately might have been easier since its one strand at a time and it doesn't seem like they'd be hard to pull individually.

pfft

this is GJ.


ok what ya do it head to the rental store. get yourself a mini excavator for the day. set it up so one track is off the ground. use the track to pull the mule tape.

then when it rips everything apart you can use the mini ex to retrench in new 4" triple conduits.

Haha, that seems overly complicated. I'll just use my tractor bucket tied to the rope and give it a good "YANK"!

In the first photo there's some white pipe at the top.
Is that conduit or water pipe?

Its all the gray conduit, just the bends I have are slightly lighter as they're different brands. I've bought stuff as I've gone through planning the project and some hardware stores didn't have the pieces I needed, so I had to get others from different manufacturers.

i guess they were too cheap to rent or buy a pulling machine.

also looks like theyre using rope instead of mule tape. good way to burn a hole in your sweeps

I will have two LBs...one at the point where it runs up the wall and along a rafter. The other on the inside of the building where it will enter the barn interior from the rafter/lean-to area and go at a 90* downward into the sub-panel.

You can lube however you want to. If I'm by myself I lube up the first couple of feet of wire and try to shove it in the pipe. Then occasionally go lube up a few more feet. Just don't let lubed up wire touch the ground., it's a dirt magnet.
You can use a heat gun, but it's going to take a while. Do your best to block the wind and have water ready to cool the pipe off or you're going to have to hold it for what seems to be forever.

I'll be careful...I'd rather not have to clean the wires after getting them dirty and potentially messing up the cleanliness of the overall project.

I pulled mine together. In 2" conduit, no problem. It's WAAAY easier if you have a helper. Haven't done it with 1.5".

I like to "cap" my conduit and then there is a spray lubricant that expands, I spray it till it comes out the other end. I may add additional as I slide the cable in.

Conduit is considered "wet" space. No harm in leaving lube in there, I think it dries out anyway.

Did I mention using a helper? Helper feeds while you pull.

How far you going?

I'm doing a 50' run, approximately 4' undeground, the rest in rafters, up a wall, down into the ground and then through a 4"ish wall and down about 2' into the sub-panel. I'll have a helper and maybe enlist my wife to manage the spool or my brother if he's available. I'm sort of wishing I had used 2", but it is what it is now...supplies have been hard to come by unfortunately.

 

[mike93lx]

You did conduit for the whole run, right?

 

[sparky 1971]

It won't be a bad pull as long as you don't have too many bends. Last week I pulled four #3 coppers 12' up a wall, 110'across a ceiling, and down 15' to a pull box through 1-1/4 by myself. What took the longest was walking to the other end to pull off some slack in the wire about 15 times. I lubed about the first five feet and after I had about 20' in, lubed another five feet and that was it.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Its all the gray conduit, just the bends I have are slightly lighter as they're different brands.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachments/20220919_140818-jpg.1734626/
From the photo they look like they are darker

 

[sparky 1971]

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachments/20220919_140818-jpg.1734626/
From the photo they look like they are darker

I've had that happen to me. The week before last I got two different bundles of schedule 40 and one of schedule 80 3/4. Three different bundles, three different shades of gray. All from the same supply house, same order, same day. Since all but the sch 80 was going to be below ground I didn't care and didn't bother to see if maybe the brands were different.

 

[mike93lx]

I've had that happen to me. The week before last I got two different bundles of schedule 40 and one of schedule 80 3/4. Three different bundles, three different shades of gray. All from the same supply house, same order, same day. Since all but the sch 80 was going to be below ground I didn't care and didn't bother to see if maybe the brands were different.

Three shades of Grey, the electrical love story

 

[sparky 1971]

pfft

this is GJ.


ok what ya do it head to the rental store. get yourself a mini excavator for the day. set it up so one track is off the ground. use the track to pull the mule tape.

then when it rips everything apart you can use the mini ex to retrench in new 4" triple conduits.

I haven't done that exactly, but it's the same principle as my wire tugger (Greenlee 6001). I've used tractors, forklifts, trucks, and a UTV to aid with gittin' 'er done.

 

[Model A Fan]

You did conduit for the whole run, right?

Yes Sir, conduit all the way from panel to panel. Just need to finish the run along the rafters into the barn, then hang the box so I can connect it all. Having a helper will...help. I have to hop a farm gate each time to get in and out or else walk a detour due to the direction the gate swings open/closed.

It won't be a bad pull as long as you don't have too many bends. Last week I pulled four #3 coppers 12' up a wall, 110'across a ceiling, and down 15' to a pull box through 1-1/4 by myself. What took the longest was walking to the other end to pull off some slack in the wire about 15 times. I lubed about the first five feet and after I had about 20' in, lubed another five feet and that was it.

Sounds great, I'm one of those kinds of guys who plans and plans and plans a project. When I FINALLY get around to doing the work, it goes quickly/smoothly because I've overthought each portion. It also usually results in lots of excess materials which I toss in boxes for future projects too.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachments/20220919_140818-jpg.1734626/
From the photo they look like they are darker

You're right, I had it backwards. The lighter shade conduit is a 45* bend going from conduit into a coupler. I'll have to post some pics of the whole project when I get it glued up and ready to pull.

Should I bury the conduit before pulling? I was figuring I'd leave it exposed so the electrical inspector can check it out before I energize it.

 

[sparky 1971]

Should I bury the conduit before pulling? I was figuring I'd leave it exposed so the electrical inspector can check it out before I energize it.

I'd bury it. Since it's MHF, he shouldn't be worried about being in conduit. You might leave it open in a couple of spots just to show the depth, but might be worth a call to the building department. It can take so long to get an inspection around me that they want us to bury it before some kid comes along and breaks a leg falling in the ditch.

 

[mike93lx]

One way to show the depth is take an extra piece of conduit and stick it straight Up resting on the run. The inspector can stick their tape down and all you have left to backfill is that hole.

That said, some ahj's need to do a groundwork inspection and make you leave the trench open . My current county wanted to inspect the trench for my pool before it was closed, mainly for grounding. I had covered up some of the conduit and the guy was fine when I just said the depth.

It would **** to backfill and have to dig anything back up

 

[Bert_]

pfft

this is GJ.


ok what ya do it head to the rental store. get yourself a mini excavator for the day. set it up so one track is off the ground. use the track to pull the mule tape.

then when it rips everything apart you can use the mini ex to retrench in new 4" triple conduits.

That's about what I'd do. Never wrapped the rope around a track but pulled a lot of with with various equipment.

I have a puller and don't use unless equipment can go there.

 

[Model A Fan]

I'd bury it. Since it's MHF, he shouldn't be worried about being in conduit. You might leave it open in a couple of spots just to show the depth, but might be worth a call to the building department. It can take so long to get an inspection around me that they want us to bury it before some kid comes along and breaks a leg falling in the ditch.

The underground run is only about 60" long, so it isn't much to fill in.

One way to show the depth is take an extra piece of conduit and stick it straight Up resting on the run. The inspector can stick their tape down and all you have left to backfill is that hole.

That said, some ahj's need to do a groundwork inspection and .ake you leave the trench open . My current county wanted to inspect the trench for my pool before it was closed, mainly for grounding. I had covered up some of the conduit and the guy was fine when I just said the depth.

It would **** to backfill and have to dig anything back up

Sounds good, I'll stick a piece down to the conduit, fill in the whole hole, then pull the "snorkel" piece after its measured and tamp it down. I heard you are supposed to put a piece of tape down over the conduit as a "warning". I have also heard crushed glass. Anything else I should do as a precaution? I don't plan on owning this place for more than probably 5 years, so the next guy might appreciate the forewarning if they decide to do any digging.

 

[mike93lx]

Are both ends of the conduit exposed outside? If that is the case, should be easy to figure out there is a conduit run.

I wouldnt buy a roll of caution tape for 5'

 

[sparky 1971]

The underground run is only about 60" long, so it isn't much to fill in.

I'd call the inspection department and ask what to do. If they want to see the ditch, depending on how far out the inspection is, put the dirt in buckets so it doesn't get packed down and hard to put back in. Throw a sheet of plywood over the hole. I've honestly never had an inspector want to see how deep a ditch is. I've been asked before, of course the answer was always 24", but I've never had to prove it. Like I said, it could take a week or more to get an inspection and that's way to long to leave a ditch open.

 

[mike93lx]

I'd call the inspection department and ask what to do. If they want to see the ditch, depending on how far out the inspection is, put the dirt in buckets so it doesn't get packed down and hard to put back in. Throw a sheet of plywood over the hole. I've honestly never had an inspector want to see how deep a ditch is. I've been asked before, of course the answer was always 24", but I've never had to prove it. Like I said, it could take a week or more to get an inspection and that's way to long to leave a ditch open.

Interesting how well calibrated your shovel is

Absolutely no in calling, that said, I don't think I would get a call back. I would just call in a ground work inspection while it's open. I bet most places would get out pretty quickly knowing thatbopen ditches are dangerous

 

[sparky 1971]

One way to show the depth is take an extra piece of conduit and stick it straight Up resting on the run. The inspector can stick their tape down and all you have left to backfill is that hole.

That's what I do with the ground rods. One ***** stick inspector wants to see them, but I like to drive them in the trench because it's a whole lot easier to get them below grade. I just slip a piece of 1-1/4 or 2" over it and tell him to shine his flashlight down there. The first time, he pulled the pipe out and dirt fell down over one of the rods faster than he could see it. Dummy.

 

[mike93lx]

That's what I do with the ground rods. One ***** stick inspector wants to see them, but I like to drive them in the trench because it's a whole lot easier to get them below grade. I just slip a piece of 1-1/4 or 2" over it and tell him to shine his flashlight down there. The first time, he pulled the pipe out and dirt fell down over one of the rods faster than he could see it. Dummy.

I just make sure I hammer on the rod end for a while after cutting it with a grinder.

Putting it in the trench is smart. I have a buddy's barn that we pulled service out to, in a trench that was 5' deep to protect a water line. We did the ground rods after the fact and couldn't get even one out of 4 more than 4' deep (new England rocky soil). Had we put it in the trench, we likely would have gotten the 8' without nearly as much trouble

 

[sparky 1971]

Interesting how well calibrated your shovel is

Absolutely no in calling, that said, I don't think I would get a call back. I would just call in a ground work inspection while it's open. I bet most places would get out pretty quickly knowing thatbopen ditches are dangerous

Not State of Iowa inspectors. Those poor bastards each have to cover an average of between seven and nine counties. On top of that, they have to cover certain towns that don't or didn't have an inspection in place since 2007. It's pretty easy to get someone out in the cities, but they don't care about looking at a trench.

 

[sparky 1971]

I just make sure I hammer on the rod end for a while after cutting it with a grinder.

This is the absolute truth, I may be paraphrasing, but it did happen. I was in Plano, TX driving a rod with a sledgehammer. It wasn't going very well, and the rod was in less than a foot after about 10 minutes of beating on it. I didn't know the inspector was standing behind me watching. I stopped for a break and I heard a voice say "I'm not going to tell you what to do, but if I were in this situation, I'd cut that rod off and beat the end of it with a sledgehammer so the inspector can't tell it's been cut". That was back in about 1996 or 97. And I remember it to this day. I will say that I was about the only electrician he liked from my company, not only was I licensed, but he really liked the fact that I could speak English and he could understand me.

EDIT: just an FYI, a band saw is much faster.

 

[Model A Fan]

Here are more photos of the conduit run I've done underground.

 

[sparky 1971]

Here are more photos of the conduit run I've done underground.

Either pull the wire so it comes out of the LB from inside, or feed it inside from the LB, then take it into the underground. Do not try to pull in the underground portion first. It's not the ideal direction to go through an LB, but trying to feed 40+ feet through it is going to be a real pain in the ****.

 

[mike93lx]

Here are more photos of the conduit run I've done underground.

Why did you end up with the two 45's?

 

[sparky 1971]

Why did you end up with the two 45's?

Just a guess.. Looks like the footing held him out about 8" from the wall. I believe the 45s are an offset. He probably had to roll them because the traditional way would have been too much.

 

[mike93lx]

Just a guess.. Looks like the footing held him out about 8" from the wall. I believe the 45s are an offset. He probably had to roll them because the traditional way would have been too much.

Yep, missed that detail

 

[sparky 1971]

Yep, missed that detail

When I first saw it, I thought it was an offset in the trench.

 

[Model A Fan]

Just a guess.. Looks like the footing held him out about 8" from the wall. I believe the 45s are an offset. He probably had to roll them because the traditional way would have been too much.

Yes, the footing of the barn sticks out a bit and the only way to navigate up the wall was using two 45s to get over the edge and up the wall parallel with the barn wall. I'm going to have an LB on the inside wall of the barn too...maybe I'll pull what I need for the inside through the interior LB and then pull the rest for the exterior underground portion through the other LB and muscle it through the bends.

 

[sparky 1971]

Whatever you do, it's going to be tough getting through the LB on the outside. Just get the longest part of the pull out of the way first and the underground part last.

 

[Model A Fan]

UPDATE:

I tried running the MHF through the conduit and Holy carp! It did not want to go...so I'm having to rethink my process. I even went as far as cutting out the center section on my underground conduit hoping it would give me some leeway with pulling and I was only able to get 1 of the wires all the way through and half of another one (I uncoiled the MHF despite the advice here as I was getting desperate).

My next plan of action is to downgrade from 90A to either a 60A or 50A breaker and go down to a 4AWG or 6AWG wire (stranded copper) and just have to settle for lower amperage feeding the new sub-panel.

The other option is hire an electrician with more tools and experience to just run the wire and stick with the 90A breaker. I've scheduled an electrician to come out and pull it for me (if thr even can) but that's 17 days out til they can get here to try.

Does it sound like downgrading my service wire to a smaller gauge and lower amperage is my best bet? I doubt I'll ever need 90A, and given the difficulty I had today, I'm fine going with an easier wire to pull and lower amperage breaker.

If I'm correct, a 60A breaker will need 4AWG and a 50A breaker will need 6AWG. I don't think I want to go lower than 50A on this unless it's just impossible. If I need to go with a smaller wire, I'll redo the conduit that I cut out with the hopes of feeding the MHF easier.